Should yacht racing be restricted ?

[max_power]

Like it is for powerboaters.


In the beginning, you had work boats and the nobs – the nobs (racers) , in the main got their own way on the water.

Does this elitist theme still carry on to this day ? I think it does . The way we use the water has changed dramatically. Lots of cruisers, sailboards waterbikes etc.

Now, I like the odd club race now and then. It teaches one a whole lot more on how to sail a boat better and to have some fun at the same time. But most of us retain the decency and common sense.

But………… many ‘all out’racing sailors tend to look down at the rest of us as ‘joke sailors’ who should get out of their way . Racing, by right, is what comes first when on the water. They know we will get out of the way despite being on the right tack because they love to leave things until the last minute. I know that this attitude spoils sailing for many people, particularly the ones we would like to come with us - our wives.

Or is it just that younger members of society look upon manners as a weakness ?



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bigmart]

What a pompous load of claptrap. As a 50 year old cruiser who hates racing I cannot disagree with you more.

You lump all racers into the category of being agressive water hoggers which is patently untrue. I have had many encounters with racing yachts & Dinghies. On the whole find them most curteos.

Finally your attack on the young shows you to be the type of person who gives the sailing communitya bad name & who we would be better off without.

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[max_power]

I just love people who have lived my life without me knowing it. Just let it go old son. Just let me know which planet you happen to live on.


I was actually hit twice last season by racers. I can assure you that I was doing the right thing and in plenty of time. But you are not listening are you ? So what's the point ? When you have recovered from your schoolboy tantrum come back again as an adult..









<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bigmart]

"When you have recovered from your schoolboy tantrum come back again as an adult.. "

Adult, sureley you mean pompous twat. I may have many faults but hopefully I will avoid that one.

Martin


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[max_power]

Lets forgive each other for both being twats !

It's probably something to do with us both being over fifty !


Regards,

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jeremy_W]

Eh, calm down, calm down

This is turning into a case of forum rage!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[qsiv]

"Racing, by right, is what comes first when on the water"

Oh dear - how worrying that someone who goes afloat has either got no knowledge of the Collision Regulations, or worse still completely misunderstands them.

ColRegs dont even mention the word 'racing' - so racers have absolutely no special status.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

agree absolutely.. think I heard the phrase "luffing rights" when engaged in the altercation referred to in the solent boatrage thread!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[whisper]

Well said Max P. but I would disagree with with you slightly.
a) Not all racers are bumptious prats, only about half of them.
b) Such folk are not all "young" and those that are, were taught how to be this way by their older mentors.

I have witnessed a large number of ill-mannered and dangerous incidents caused by "racers" and all bar one of these has been in the Solent !!! They have far better manners and knowledge of "The Rules" in the South West.

Tin hat now in position /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Magic_Sailor]

Do you mean...

That the racers of today are the knobs of yesteryear. There may be something in that! (See my post in "Summers Here").

I think they should be allowed to race but only if they ditch those 'orrible bloody black sails and get some nice white one's. I think a racing fleet looks good. Maybe they should change the venues - they all seem to take place at:

a. The entrance to a river.
b. The entrance to Southampton Water
c. The most imortant waypoint in the area
d. In a river.

Its like holding a race at the junction of the M25/M3 - no one in their right mind would even consider it. So, why do they do that?

Magic



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://hometown.aol.co.uk/geoffwestgarth/myhomepage/travelwriting.html>Click for website!</A>

 

[max_power]

Dear qsiv,

“Oh dear - how worrying that someone who goes afloat has either got no knowledge of the Collision Regulations, or worse still completely misunderstands them”


I cannot quite understand your above statement. I take it that ‘someone’ refers to me.

Could you please explain how my posting refers to racers, or anyone else who uses the water has rights and privileges over and above the colregs that we all have to adhere to.

My point is that an ever increasing section of the ‘all out’ racing fraternity THINK that they have special rights because they are racing. You appear to be the only one so far that thinks I do not know the colregs. I can only apologize for not making my point clearly enough.

What disappoints me most of all, is that the majority of racers who adhere to the rules and common decency make no effort to stamp out this kind of action in their own ranks. Although I am totally against slanging matches on the water I believe it is every yachtsman’s duty to take action if wronged for the benefit of all of us. It seems the opinion of this forum just to smile and accept that nothing can be changed in this world. Jimi may be right or he may be wrong – but he is his own man and willing to do what he believes is right in terms of following the incident up.

I have to say that I am appalled by most of the contributors to this forum who dare to call themselves British. Every incident you let go gives strength to some all round sunglassed, peak capped , perching pratted, apology of a sailor. Much like most of you give to that bloke in the far east. I leave you to your morning Guardian and mineral waters while the glorious few risk their lives so we can go sailing.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[claymore]

This is certainly an angry post. At the risk of being pompous or a prat or both or even a twat, here goes. I think there's enough water to go round and certainly if I see a racing fleet whilst we are out cruising - I stay out of the way. There will always be someone in a racing fleet, totally focussed on their own intent who will break the odd right of way rule. Similarly, there will always be some blimp who demands that because they are on Starboard tack they can stuff their way right through a fleet. Loch Fyne in Scottish week or the Sound of Mull in West highland week are busy places and as I said - with a bit of consideration and passage planning, there is no need to sail right through the middle.
I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph but I think it's awfully clever of you to have worked out that I read the Guardian.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[qsiv]

I appologise - it wasn't immediately clear when you were talking as a racer and when you weren't.

I race and cruise so have a foot in each camp. It is dangerous to generalise - but many of the more aggressive racers are perhaps anything but 'nobs' (as you so eloquently describe them). Many of these racers are in fact self made men, who are actually in trade and, heaven forbid, actually earn their money. The true 'nob' by contrast certainly wouldnt demean himself by working - far less by entering into a slanging match.

I rather suspect that the issue has nothing whatsoever do with class issues -as you seem to want to suggest, and rather more to straight forward selfishness and intolerance on both sides. When I'm not racing I would always take the option that takes me away from a fleet whenever I can (at least I can make a shrewd guess as to their next destination, which is more than they can surmise about mine). There is usually plenty of room for both camps to enjoy themselves without cramping anyones enjoyment. Equally I wouldnt try to enforce my sailing right of way over a Formula 1 powerboat - it's a wholly unneccessary risk for all concerned.

OTOH - I have no time at all for the racers who demand that they take precedence over non racing sailors, unless explicit exclusion zones have been established (such as those that covered some of the Americas Cup Jubilee starts in 2000).

A little common courtesy and a lot more forward planning will normally prevent most issues becoming contentious.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jac]

Where there is plenty of room available then most cruising sailors don't mind altering course a little to avoid the fleet. But surely Race organisers have a reponsibility to ensure that there fleet isn't occupying all the water in the first place.

I keep my boat at Shamrock Quay so to go anywhere we have to come out of southampton water. I've seen racing fleets operating round both sides of the bambles bank and last year during Cowes Week I had the misfortune to run into(not literally) a class of around 100 boats strung out one behind the other from one side of the solent to the other. Add in the other classes ahead and astern and you can't avoid them.

We tried to get out of the way by sailing in the shallows on the mainland shore (60cm under the keel) and still found ourselves surrunded by boats going the other way 4-5 yards on either side of us.

How Inconvenient would it have been to the organisers to have used say the island side of the solent only and not used marks on the mainland side which would have kept 1/2 the solent available for everyone else.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[qsiv]

I'm not sure that these sorts of discussions can ever be resolved to everyones satisfaction.

One thing does strike me - you seem to be implying that you have a different (better?) right to use an area of water than another type of user - by seeking to restrict their access. Surely it is a case of equal rights to all of the water, for all users, subject to Colregs and Port Authority (in this case) regulations?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[graham]

Re: Report Them

We all make mistakes in the heat of the moment but if any vessel racing cruising motoring or whatever DELIBERATELY fails to give way to the point of collision or near miss I think you should report them to their club commodore or the relevant authority MCA or whatever.

Dont forget that the colregs dont allow you to stand on into a collision .You must ultimately do whatever is needed to prevent a collision so in any enquiry you may not come out as 100% blameless.

As someone who occasionally races and mostly cruises I know the extreme pressure on a helmsman not to lose an inch.If you are only pottering wouldnt it be less stressful on yourself to bear away around the racers stern even if you are the stand on boat?You must do this early enough and make a big alteration to make it obvious you are letting him go .

 

[Guest]

Cowes Week is Cowes Week and comes but once a year - a good time for the cruising man to be indulging in more distant waters. It seems a lot of the upsets are caused by ignorance and inexperience.
As a race officer I saw on several (no, quite numerous) occasions, cruising yachts sail happliy through my start line. I can swear that they never knew it was there and remained blissfully unaware where they had been. We never shouted: just shrugged our shoulders.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[DeeGee]

I would not want to defend this position, but, for about 30yrs of racing before I took to cruising, I had no idea that there was such a thing as ColRegs. I was proud of my knowledge of the racing rules, and was quick to shout 'water' or 'no water' at windward marks and continuing obstructions etc etc.

I really believed (with what foundation, I can't imagine) that racing boats took precedence over non-racing. I would call out "I am racing...", expecting them to deviate (which mostly they did !) I always called those who didn't 'ignorant buggers' - but, at least, not out loud.

When I started learning to be a proper sailor, I discovered ColRegs, and looked back with embarassment at my previous ignorant behaviour.

AFAIK, they don't teach ColRegs to sailors on the RYA Racing streams.


<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[bigmart]

You are totally right. Anyone who seeks to restrict the rights of others should be extremely careful. Who knows what of his own rights he might give away.

I took the originator of this thread to task earlier because of his pompous attitude. He seems to think he is somewhat more perfect that those inadequate "Toffs" that race & certainly is superior to a "Young Person" who by definition can have no manners. To my mind we would all be better off without the types who perpetuate that kind of attitude. Thats what gets sailing a bad name!.

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BootleBumtrinket]

I was taught, when a boy,

that it was polite to do all you could to avoid claiming right of way over a boat while racing, given that an extra minute to your destination meant nothing, whereas it would to them

And being polite never hurts

<hr width=100% size=1>