What would typically be included with a used sailing yacht?

[flaming]

A boat that is in ready to sail condition is worth considerably more than one which is not. The vendor who strips it of the essentials probably reduces the perceived value by more than he gains!

But those cheap ones become spares which you can include when you sell the boat on!

Ensign and staff? Not actually bolted to the boat.
Danbouy/horseshoe? Not bolted to boat but its bracket is.
Emergency tiller for wheel steered boats?
Toolkit supplied with the engine when new?
Correct sized anchor hook for the chain?
Fire extinguishers etc?

Clearly the answer is to inventory everything or have it in ready to handover state and say “everything you see is included”.

Define ready to sail....
In my boat's case it's a race boat. So ready to sail includes everything that you would need to be compliant with both the RRS and the ORC safety regs. Which would include in date lifejackets and harnesses, flares etc. It would also include a set of class flags etc. Should all that be included? Sometimes it is, again normally when people are getting out of sailing, but if I'm changing boat I don't really want to have to buy 10 more lifejackets if I already have a set of perfectly serviceable ones do I...? Or buy a whole new set of class flags.

With winch handles yes if the boat came with cheap ones then great, I could leave them. But since I don't have any cheap ones I certainly wouldn't be leaving any of my nice ones if I'm changing boat.... Given the type of boat it is, if I put a cheap one on the boat the new owner would remove it and replace with their own nice ones. So that just seems like a waste.... Look at that JPK spec sheet. It comes with 1 handle, but that's obviously not enough for the purpose the boat is designed for, so anyone buying the boat new would very quickly be buying at least 2 more.

Emergency tiller you would obviously expect to be included, but again you should list it in an Inventory.
Ensign, no. Often an Ensign is a very personal thing. For example mine is from my Dad's boat, and since he's not with us any more has deep sentimental value. That ensign will come with me until it's just a few threads....

To all the rest I'd give exactly the same answer. Inventory.... List what you're including. If you look at race boat ads you'll see whole inventories of sails etc. And that's at Ad stage, not at "I'm really interested, please send me full details" stage.

 

[Mark-1]

Define ready to sail....
In my boat's case it's a race boat. So ready to sail includes everything that you would need to be compliant with both the RRS and the ORC safety regs. Which would include in date lifejackets and harnesses, flares etc. It would also include a set of class flags etc. Should all that be included?

If you advertised it as "ready to race" then yes.

We can debate what "ready to sail" means but any definition would include sheets and winch handles, IMHO.

I think we can all agree that nothing should be on the boat in viewings that isn't included in the sale so a good test would be when the buyer turns up for a test sail does the seller have to say "Sorry we can't sail because the mainsheet is in my loft." Equally if the boat is out on a test sail and the buyer says "This boat isn't ready to sail" I'd expect the reponse to be "we are sailing right now".

 

[Refueler]

When I view a boat - I look around and ask - is all that staying on the boat or are you removing it ?

Once I have their reply - I take a suitable photo. I may even use my phone or GoPro to make a video with audio - capturing the reply and scene.

That ends all discussion later !!

 

[flaming]

If you advertised it as "ready to race" then yes.

We can debate what "ready to sail" means but any definition would include sheets and winch handles, IMHO.

So I could only advertise "ready to race" if it included lifejackets? That seems odd to me.

Sheets I would agree because they are normally made to measure for the boat. WInch handles I would disagree with, but I think clearly we'll have to agree to disagree on that one....

 

[Refueler]

If you advertised it as "ready to race" then yes.

We can debate what "ready to sail" means but any definition would include sheets and winch handles, IMHO.

Check out some 'brands' new boat Sailaway inventorys !! Laughable ...

 

[ylop]

Define ready to sail....
In my boat's case it's a race boat. So ready to sail includes everything that you would need to be compliant with both the RRS and the ORC safety regs. Which would include in date lifejackets and harnesses, flares etc. It would also include a set of class flags etc. Should all that be included?

I think Ready to Sail and Ready to Race are different terms. I dare say that a race boat that is "ready to race" is worth even more than a race boat that is ready to sail. Lifejackets and harnesses are an interesting question - because some people see them as personal items and some as boat items. Certainly my current boat did come with some which we carry as spares - and I suspect were also the previous owners' spares (we tested and binned half of them).

Personally if its "ready to sail" then I'd expect it does gave some flares or an alternative like PLB/EPIRB on board. I've no idea what "class flags" are as I don't race - but if the are class specific I suspect often they make more sense to stay with the boat?

With winch handles yes if the boat came with cheap ones then great, I could leave them. But since I don't have any cheap ones I certainly wouldn't be leaving any of my nice ones if I'm changing boat.... Given the type of boat it is, if I put a cheap one on the boat the new owner would remove it and replace with their own nice ones. So that just seems like a waste....

Convention may be different with race boats, but on a normal boat I'd posit that it would be kept safe in case someone loses your preferred ones and to include at resale. You've shared your astonishment, but perhaps the broad collective view that winch handles should be included will help you position your boat when it comes to sell.

Ensign, no. Often an Ensign is a very personal thing. For example mine is from my Dad's boat, and since he's not with us any more has deep sentimental value. That ensign will come with me until it's just a few threads....

I can understand your emotional attachment to your ensign, and obviously there are people who have special ensigns and the boat might change its ensign as a result of the transaction. My limited experience buying red duster flagged boats is the ensign was included. Obviously it could be excluded as with any component. What I'm telling you is that as a buyer if I'm comparing an option that is genuinely ready to use and one they requires an expensive trip to the chandler just to move it to its new berth - one is much more attractive than the other.

To all the rest I'd give exactly the same answer. Inventory.... List what you're including. If you look at race boat ads you'll see whole inventories of sails etc. And that's at Ad stage, not at "I'm really interested, please send me full details" stage.

I'd expect a decent ad (and there are lots of ads that are not decent) to highlight the sails in any boat, at least if not the ones in the pictures. By the full details stage I'm expecting some indication of their age and big ticket items like liferafts/tenders etc. But a full inventory might not be until an offer is being negotiated.

 

[flaming]

I think Ready to Sail and Ready to Race are different terms. I dare say that a race boat that is "ready to race" is worth even more than a race boat that is ready to sail. Lifejackets and harnesses are an interesting question - because some people see them as personal items and some as boat items. Certainly my current boat did come with some which we carry as spares - and I suspect were also the previous owners' spares (we tested and binned half of them).

Personally if its "ready to sail" then I'd expect it does gave some flares or an alternative like PLB/EPIRB on board. I've no idea what "class flags" are as I don't race - but if the are class specific I suspect often they make more sense to stay with the boat?

Convention may be different with race boats, but on a normal boat I'd posit that it would be kept safe in case someone loses your preferred ones and to include at resale. You've shared your astonishment, but perhaps the broad collective view that winch handles should be included will help you position your boat when it comes to sell.

I can understand your emotional attachment to your ensign, and obviously there are people who have special ensigns and the boat might change its ensign as a result of the transaction. My limited experience buying red duster flagged boats is the ensign was included. Obviously it could be excluded as with any component. What I'm telling you is that as a buyer if I'm comparing an option that is genuinely ready to use and one they requires an expensive trip to the chandler just to move it to its new berth - one is much more attractive than the other.

I'd expect a decent ad (and there are lots of ads that are not decent) to highlight the sails in any boat, at least if not the ones in the pictures. By the full details stage I'm expecting some indication of their age and big ticket items like liferafts/tenders etc. But a full inventory might not be until an offer is being negotiated.

Here's a pretty typical race boat ad.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2018-j-boats-j-99-9101332/

If you click on "Other details" you'll see the full spec of what they are including. Notably 4 winch handles are listed....

Here's another typical one.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2021-jeanneau-sun-fast-3300-8813514/

No winch handles listed....

 

[michael_w]

The last boat I sold I retained the name and sail number. When I sell the current ride I'll do it again.

 

[Refueler]

If I bought a boat and it had no winch handles to fit the winches on board - I'd be mighty p'd off ..... maybe I'm wrong - but items like that - I regard as standard inventory items.
Same as tiller or wheel ... roller reef handle .... windlass bar etc.

 

[flaming]

The last boat I sold I retained the name and sail number. When I sell the current ride I'll do it again.

It was a stipulation when we took over the current ride that the name had to change. The sail number stayed though.

 

[Refueler]

The last boat I sold I retained the name and sail number. When I sell the current ride I'll do it again.

That's fine if Sail # is issued by another - not the Manufacturers #.

Name is unless officially registered - not an issue anyway ... you can have as many boats as you like with same name !!

 

[Mark-1]

So I could only advertise "ready to race" if it included lifejackets? That seems odd to me.

You said:

"In my boat's case it's a race boat. So ready to sail includes everything that you would need to be compliant with both the RRS and the ORC safety regs. Which would include in date lifejackets and harnesses, flares etc. It would also include a set of class flags etc. Should all that be included?"

I'm saying those don't sound like the sorts of things I'd expect if a description said "ready to sail". Instead, they seem like the sorts of things you might offer if you chose to advertise using the term 'ready to race'.

So the point I was making was that those things aren't required to be "ready to sail". Not that they *are* required for any other chosen description.


AFAIK these terms seen in adverts have no strict meaning whatsoever, but the vast majority of us seem to typically know roughly what to expect, as this thread shows.

 

[WoodyP]

Usually the advice on here when selling a boat is to remove all personal items and clutter.

 

[johnalison]

I can't remember what we did when selling, but I think we left the ensigns with the boats, though I wouldn't expect this to be included in a new boat, or by extension in an old one.

I don't know it it's been mentioned but one of the most important things might be the manuals for all the equipment, not all of which might be obtainable or online.

 

[Refueler]

After selling - I have always found stuff in a drawer or locker forgotten .. if still able - I then call buyer and pass on ... if not - it stays forgotten !!

 

[MontyMariner]

I think a boat needs to be 'ready to sail' and of it's not that needs to be explicitly stated. Winch handles are part of that.

Yes, that was my reasoning as well.

 

[Refueler]

Another vote for including winch handles or being very explicit that they're not included.

I think a boat needs to be 'ready to sail' and of it's not that needs to be explicitly stated. Winch handles are part of that.

Don't need to be snazzy winch handles, obvs, but they need to be the ones that were on the boat during any viewings or test sails.

+1