What would typically be included with a used sailing yacht?

[Biggles Wader]

Winch handles I would very much expect to be part of the boat equipment and left on board. If not I would expect the vendor to make that very clear to the buyer. Same applies to warps, fenders and sheets(the rope ones!), the gas bottle and the fuel in the tank.

 

[NormanS]

Well had I been turning up to collect my new boat I would have brought winch handles. Along with life jackets, flare pack, handheld VHF and anything else I might want for a delivery that wasn't on the inventory, or safety critical items who's condition I hadn't had time to evaluate. Had I been that gent I wouldn't have had a cheap handle to give you, so yes I probably would have had to say "sorry, don't have any to give you". I'd have probably offered you a lift to a chandlery though. On the assumption that I have the number of handles I want for my new boat, why would I leave some in the old boat, only to have to buy them for the new boat?

And yes, I've also seen "turn key" boats being offered. But they're normally advertised as such. Plenty of others that aren't though. I've also known boats where the advert makes clear that the storm sails are not included in the sale as they'll fit the sellers new boat. One where it made clear that the carbon tiller was not included... I think if you're buying from someone who's quitting sailing then you might hope to get a lot more kit, but if the seller is getting a new boat, they're going to want to keep most of the "stuff" aren't they?

The point really is that you should be making sure of exactly what is included as part of the negotiation of the deal. If it's not bolted to the boat, and not mentioned on the inventory, then why would you assume it's included?

If you were buying a new boat with sheet winches installed, would you or would you not expect the sheet winches to be equipped with handles? Ditto any handle/lever for the anchor windlass? Or an extreme case, a tiller? Very unlikely that any of these items would be listed on an inventory.

 

[flaming]

If you were buying a new boat with sheet winches installed, would you or would you not expect the sheet winches to be equipped with handles? Ditto any handle/lever for the anchor windlass? Or an extreme case, a tiller? Very unlikely that any of these items would be listed on an inventory.

No I would not expect a new boat to come with winch handles unless it was on the spec sheet. If it did that would be great, but I would not expect it unless the spec sheet that I signed said so! And if it did come with cheap ones that wouldn't really help matters as I'd still have to buy ones suitable for the sailing I would be doing, which of course is exactly why those ones would be coming with me when I sell the boat.

A tiller very much would be on the inventory. Details of the steering mechanism are always on inventories of new boats.

For example, here's the spec sheet of the JPK1030, the updated model of my boat.
https://www.jpk.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2021_-_descriptif_JPK_10.30_-_GB_-_HD.pdf
note the details of the tiller, and the details of the winches, and 1 "winch crank". So there it is, one handle, on the spec sheet...

I have no idea why people think things would be included if they are NOT either bolted to the boat or on the inventory / spec sheet... Regardless of whether the boat is new or used.

Here's a Beneteau spec sheet that includes 1 winch handle
https://pro.beneteau.fr/documents/bateau/12658/V12761_Oceanis_30-1_EN.pdf

Here's a Hanse spec sheet that does not
https://www.hanseyachtsag.com/mis/w...4-spec-eu-20231211pdf_7187383558532961872.pdf

The fact that JPK and Beneteau think that they should include mention of a winch handle on their spec sheet indicates that it isn't just "expected".

 

[B27]

I've bought a couple of boats and done pick-up delivery trips for a handful more.
All have included at least one winch handle.

Things which I've noticed missing include grill pans and/or their handles, which should really come with the cooker.
Ironically, the last two houses I've bought have been like that too, one with pan and no handle, one with just a random handle.

A mate sold a Laser dinghy but didn't include a sail. New owner wanted a new one anyway.

The whole thing is a matter of agreement between seller and buyer. There is no etiquette binding anyone.

I expect Flaming has a basic winch handle or two in his loft or garage which could be included in a sale?

It's not unusual to spot items which have mysteriously been downgraded between first seeing the boat and taking delivery. It can be tied up with any old bit of string, Rocnas mutate into Danforths, fenders become older, tattier and smaller....

 

[michael_w]

I've been at the opposite end. I bought a boat from a guy who was swallowing the anchor. It came laden down with piles of rubbish. Several sets of his grand children's finger paintings, Loads of spares for an old engine that had been replaced, enough pyrotechnics for a municipal firework display. Oh, and he must have been a heeling fetishist as there were 4 clinometers on board.

 

[NormanS]

I guess I've always dealt with decent people.

 

[justanothersailboat]

I think I'd return the fingerpaintings!

One of the least useful items on my boat was the lid from a now-long-removed heads, much smaller than the current heads lid. On reflection, I would have preferred that that was not included. Just looking at it made me feel quite uncomfortable imagining the minuscule pan it must once have graced.

 

[MontyMariner]

special handles for them at £100 a pop.

I can understand that you would be taking them at that price, but I would feel obliged to put an old / basic replacement on the boat.

 

[flaming]

I can understand that you would be taking them at that price, but I would feel obliged to put an old / basic replacement on the boat.

Why? If you do an inventory for the sale and don’t list winch handles why would you feel the need to include them? In my case I don’t have any others so I’d have to specifically buy one. Which would be mad, as anyone buying a race boat isn’t going to want a cheap thing, they’d be expecting to buy their own nice ones.

Unless of course “winch handles as seen during viewing” was an item on the inventory.

This isn’t about what you “feel” should be included, it’s about what you’ve agreed with the buyer / seller.

 

[NormanS]

Just to satisfy my idle curiosity I actually looked at one of the boat specs that you mentioned. And yes, they do supply one winch handle, although they call it a crank. One of the items was a manual bilge pump. There's no mention of a handle for it. So would you expect a handle for the manual bilge pump to be supplied, bearing in mind that it's not itemised on the list?

 

[Sea Change]

The stove is also useless without a kettle or a saucepan, would you expect a kettle and a saucepan?

I've always included a kettle when selling a boat. Seems a bit mean not to!

 

[flaming]

Just to satisfy my idle curiosity I actually looked at one of the boat specs that you mentioned. And yes, they do supply one winch handle, although they call it a crank. One of the items was a manual bilge pump. There's no mention of a handle for it. So would you expect a handle for the manual bilge pump to be supplied, bearing in mind that it's not itemised on the list?

Yes, because the handle on that pump is built in, not detachable….

I’m cheating slightly here because I happen to know what pump they fit and I have the same pump on my boat…

 

[WoodyP]

I think a bottle of wine and some chocs could be left for the new owners.

 

[Mark-1]

Another vote for including winch handles or being very explicit that they're not included.

I think a boat needs to be 'ready to sail' and of it's not that needs to be explicitly stated. Winch handles are part of that.

Don't need to be snazzy winch handles, obvs, but they need to be the ones that were on the boat during any viewings or test sails.

 

[srm]

From the totally unscientific sample in this thread it appears that most sellers of used sailing boats that are offered in a suitable state to go to sea (as opposed to "project" boats) would regard it as reasonable to include at least one winch handle. Presumably, this attitude also includes sheets, furling/reefing lines, halyards, etc. even though (as in my case) they were not on the official inventory as it seemed obvious that a boat rigged for sailing would have them.

New boats are a slightly different matter as some builders (like some airlines) aim for a minimum headline price, then add in all the (both essential and otherwise) extras.

 

[Sea Change]

From the totally unscientific sample in this thread it appears that most sellers of used sailing boats that are offered in a suitable state to go to sea (as opposed to "project" boats) would regard it as reasonable to include at least one winch handle. Presumably, this attitude also includes sheets, furling/reefing lines, halyards, etc. even though (as in my case) they were not on the official inventory as it seemed obvious that a boat rigged for sailing would have them.

New boats are a slightly different matter as some builders (like some airlines) aim for a minimum headline price, then add in all the (both essential and otherwise) extras.

A fair summary, I would say.
I've been told that some new boat prices don't include an anchor. That's like selling a car and making the brake pads an optional extra

 

[Mark-1]

A fair summary, I would say.
I've been told that some new boat prices don't include an anchor. That's like selling a car and making the brake pads an optional extra

Yes, but what kind of anchor is the correct type not to include? I say the anchor that's not fitted should be a Bugel and anyone who says otherwise is completely wrong.

 

[flaming]

From the totally unscientific sample in this thread it appears that most sellers of used sailing boats that are offered in a suitable state to go to sea (as opposed to "project" boats) would regard it as reasonable to include at least one winch handle. Presumably, this attitude also includes sheets, furling/reefing lines, halyards, etc. even though (as in my case) they were not on the official inventory as it seemed obvious that a boat rigged for sailing would have them.

New boats are a slightly different matter as some builders (like some airlines) aim for a minimum headline price, then add in all the (both essential and otherwise) extras.

Just for the avoidance of doubt I'm not at all saying it's unreasonable to include a winch handle, but that if it's not on the inventory given by the seller you shouldn't expect it.
When we inventoried my Dad's boat for sale, when he was swallowing the anchor, we were very specific about the fact that the winch handles were included. And also all sheets etc on the boat when it was presented for viewing. No room for doubt, no arguments over what was or was not included.

Try another example, the chart card in the plotter. It's not part of the boat, the current owner had to buy it separately to the plotter, possibly upgraded it during their ownership, should you expect that? Especially if the seller is keeping sailing.
Or charts... No argument that they're necessary to go to sea, should they be included automatically?

I mean, what's the point in an inventory if people are assuming other portable items "just should be included"? Boats are not cheap purchases, parting with that sort of money to a stranger without first agreeing what you are getting for your money is a baffling concept to me.

 

[NormanS]

I've never seen floorboards on an inventory.

 

[ylop]

There's no way I would buy a boat and expect absolutely everything it needed to leave the dock to be included. Great if they are, but you can't expect it.

A boat that is in ready to sail condition is worth considerably more than one which is not. The vendor who strips it of the essentials probably reduces the perceived value by more than he gains!

And if it did come with cheap ones that wouldn't really help matters as I'd still have to buy ones suitable for the sailing I would be doing, which of course is exactly why those ones would be coming with me when I sell the boat.

But those cheap ones become spares which you can include when you sell the boat on!

Ensign and staff? Not actually bolted to the boat.
Danbouy/horseshoe? Not bolted to boat but its bracket is.
Emergency tiller for wheel steered boats?
Toolkit supplied with the engine when new?
Correct sized anchor hook for the chain?
Fire extinguishers etc?

Clearly the answer is to inventory everything or have it in ready to handover state and say “everything you see is included”.