Help Bob. - Summoning help from the water.

Mark-1

Well-known member
Joined
22 Sep 2008
Messages
3,948
Visit site
This is the story of Bob.

Bob's boat has suffered a fire and sunk quickly a few miles SE of the IOW. Nobody saw it happen.
Bob is in the water in mid April in his LJ with no liferaft.
The water is slightly choppy but by no means rough - F4-5 with a good fetch.
It's daylight but very early morning and there is nobody about.
There are 7 ships in sight, 1 moving, 6 anchored off St Helens.
Bob knows his position relative to a named bouy.



Bob muses on the various bits of kit he has on him to summon help. Some of his thoughts are a little heretical:


Bob deploys his 406mhz PLB. He thinks this will be unlikely to summon help because by the time the CG have checked contacts to see if his transmission is a false alarm and sent help, he'll be dead.

Bob deploys his AIS SART. He thinks it likely nearby vessels will pick it up. However he reckons the CG are out of range and he fears that all the people who receive his position will assume someone else is doing something and nothing will happen. Essentially he fears he's in an area remote enough that officialdom won't hear but busy enough that everyone will assume there are other people better placed to help.

Bob has a handheld VHF. He's found it pretty unreliable at contacting Marinas on CH80 but thinks that's a line of sight issue and is hoping there will be a line of sight to the CG aerial. He thinks the CG aerial will be high up and they might have sensitive kit. He thinks if he can get through to the CG he can confirm he's genuinely in distress and his 406mhz will give them his position. Although he's doubtful the CG will pick up his transmission Bob is actually very optimistic that nearby anchored/passing shipping will be able to pick up his VHF but he has no idea if those ships keep a listening watch on CH16. He also fears the same problem as the AIS SART - it's busy are at a quiet time - they may assume someone else is dealing with the problem and do nothing.

Bob thinks if he has no joy on CH16 that CH11 might be worth a go because all ships should be listening on that and many Yachtsmen will, too.

Bob has his mobile phone on him in an aquapack. Bob's uses his phone in in Kayaks/Dinghies/SUPS so he knows it works from low on the water and he had good signal just before his boat sank. He's never tried it from the water. Bob reckons that the height of mobile phone masts on the IOW means his phone is potentially more likely to have a decent line of sight than his VHF to ships. Unfortunately, Bob's mobile has a touch screen which will be a pig to use in the water. Bob thinks (if he had a basic phone with real buttons) a mobile would actually be his best option in this situation.

Bob had always thought that wearing his shortie wetsuit as a base layer under his oilies would dramatically improve his survival time in water, but he's never worn it purely because going for a wee is such a faff.

Bob owns a large flare manufacturing factory and, like everyone on YBW, is a leading world expert on flares so he doesn't devote any time to thinking about flares and nor should anyone else. However Bob has fully deployed flares as appropriate in this situation.

Bob knows if the CG pick up his VHF call they will ask him a lot of questions. Bob wonders how he can 'game' the CG's questions to achieve the fastest response. For instance, when they ask him if he's wearing a lifejacket will they act faster if he says no?

What do we all think of Bob's thoughts?

(I will reveal the outcome once I've made it up I have Bob's permission to share it.)
 
Last edited:

flaming

Well-known member
Joined
24 Mar 2004
Messages
15,118
Visit site
Bob is in the sh1t.

If there was no boat close enough to see his burn, then no boat will be close enough to pluck him out of the sea in time given that the sea is very cold.

Bob should use any and everything he possibly can to get the helicopter in the air asap. That is his only realistic hope.
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,372
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
Why discount the obvious? Whist faffing around he could have set off some flares and been rescued. Of course the ybwmaib bang on about the one in ten million that go wrong but they never consider the zillions that get let off at football matches, protests, yadda yadda.....
 

oldmanofthehills

Well-known member
Joined
13 Aug 2010
Messages
4,808
Location
Bristol / Cornwall
Visit site
Hit beacon alarm without thinking. Try VHF CH16 for CG calling mayday - then fret if no response. However sometimes death is near inevitable - its just how it is - struggle to survive and try and remain calm

And if he is a flare manufacturer why the F did he not haver some on board and set them off from the stern rail as boat sunk.
 

Biggles Wader

Well-known member
Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
10,779
Location
London
Visit site
"7 ships in sight"
VHF should work as their aerials will be set high up on the superstructure and reception would be quite good.
 

Mark-1

Well-known member
Joined
22 Sep 2008
Messages
3,948
Visit site
"7 ships in sight"
VHF should work as their aerials will be set high up on the superstructure and reception would be quite good.

That was my thought, but are they listening? Surely the moving one, at least, is keeping a Radio watch even if they aren't legally required to? I'd like to think anchored ships keep a Radio watch too, but I'm not sure they really do and I was hoping some forumites would know... I've heard ships fail to respond to yachts on Ch16 but those were in near miss situations and I think they were just avoiding an debate on Ch16 rather than not listening, but who knows.

I reckon two way comms avoids the delay that the essential process of weeding out false alarms causes.
 

Biggles Wader

Well-known member
Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
10,779
Location
London
Visit site
That was my thought, but are they listening? Surely the moving one, at least, is keeping a Radio watch even if they aren't legally required to? I'd like to think anchored ships keep a Radio watch too, but I'm not sure they really do and I was hoping some forumites would know... I've heard ships fail to respond to yachts on Ch16 but those were in near miss situations and I think they were just avoiding an debate on Ch16 rather than not listening, but who knows.

I reckon two way comms avoids the delay that the essential process of weeding out false alarms causes.
Yes. The AISSART should also be heard on those ships which should at least provoke some attention to the VHF. Ships at anchor should have an officer on anchor watch on the bridge and the one under way should also have some signs of life looking after the shop. Automation and DSC has probably changed things since the 1970s when I was involved but we would certainly have had the vhf switched on ch16 and the volume turned up, especially in coastal waters like just off the IOW.
 

boomerangben

Well-known member
Joined
24 Jul 2003
Messages
1,142
Location
Isle of Lewis
Visit site
I am pretty sure that if the CG see a PLB beacon hit in the water, they will send a helicopter and lifeboat whilst they phone around. I know for a fact that an American tourist was rescued in the UK within half an hour of activating a PLB. Phrases like person in water and CPR on going gets things moving whilst other questions are being asked. Having such a negative view of how the CG operate (needing lots of questions) is unfair. Yes they need information but they need to save your life. They can do a lot more than two things at once

In short you do everything you can to raise the alarm and continue doing so until you get a response
 
Last edited:

Davy_S

Well-known member
Joined
31 Jan 2003
Messages
10,752
Location
in limbo at the mo.
Visit site
is it this Bob?
Blackadder_2_bob.jpg
 

Juan Twothree

Well-known member
Joined
24 Aug 2010
Messages
745
Visit site
The PLB will produce a fairly rapid response from HMCG. The phoning around to see if it's a false alarm happens once SAR assets have been tasked.

And similarly as regards the VHF, as soon as the CG hear mention of a person in the water, lifeboats will be paged and helicopters tasked pretty much immediately.

Whilst you might get frustrated listening to the CG asking someone whether they're wearing a lifejacket, and to state their preferred pronouns, for a call of that nature lots of stuff will be going on in the background.
 

Juan Twothree

Well-known member
Joined
24 Aug 2010
Messages
745
Visit site
I am pretty sure that if the CG see a PLB beacon hit in the water, they will send a helicopter and lifeboat whilst they phone around. I know for a fact that an American tourist was rescued in the UK within half an hour of activating a PLB. Phrases like person in water and CPR on going gets things moving whilst other questions are being asked. Having such a negative view of how the CG operate (needing lots of questions) is unfair. Yes they need information but they need to save your life. They can do a lot more than two things at once

In short you do everything you can to raise the alarm and continue doing so until you get a response

Spot on
 

Laser310

Well-known member
Joined
15 Sep 2014
Messages
1,269
Visit site
Bob's mobile has a touch screen which will be a pig to use in the water. Bob thinks (if he had a basic phone with real buttons) a mobile would actually be his best option in this situation.

new iphones are waterproof and he doesn't need the bag

the old phone with buttons would not be waterproof. pushing buttons to make a call with the phone in the bag will be difficult, and then he may not be easily understood through the bag.

with the iphone, he can make a call by voice command: "Siri; Call Coast Guard". no need to use the touchscreen.

in the situation described, this will work better than anything else.
 

Mark-1

Well-known member
Joined
22 Sep 2008
Messages
3,948
Visit site
I am pretty sure that if the CG see a PLB beacon hit in the water, they will send a helicopter and lifeboat whilst they phone around.

That's why I'm asking. If it turns out the CG send a helicopter whilst they check if it's a false alarm then I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I googled all the issues I'd like to explore and I'm pretty sure that isn't what happens.

I intend no criticisms of the CG with my point about false alarms. Google suggests 24 in 25 of PLBs activation are false alarms. If they launched a helicopter for every false alarm then there still wouldn't be a helicopter for the real calls. They *have* to do some checking and 95pc of false alarms are weeded out by those checks.

I probably was having a dig with the 'questions' thing but again, there's a serious question there. What's the path through those questions that gets you the fastest launch.

Maybe that's all wrong, that's why I started the thread. I want to know what happens.
 
Top