Help Bob. - Summoning help from the water.

[Mark-1]

" Maybe that's all wrong, that's why I started the thread. I want to know what happens. "

I can't help with what happens off the Isle of Wight but from personal experience I can say what happens in the Caribbean.

Before I sailed single handed from Falmouth in late Spring 2005 I sent an 'Itinerary' of sorts to HM Coastguard at Falmouth. Nothing too precise, just departure date and voyage route to Greece with approximate timings, probable stopping places, Portimao, Gib, Ports on the Spanish Med coast, Balearics etc: and also timings for an Atlantic crossing the following year starting from my winter berth in Kalamata, Greece. Route from Greece and proposed departure date from Las Palmas once the ARC had cleared.

In the Spring of 2007 I got caught in the beginnings of an unexpected Tropical storm after I sailed from San Juan, Puerto Rico. Long story, 30 hours hand steering, no sleep etc; and I managed to stuff my Gaff Cutter on a reef somewhere about halfway between Rum and Samana Cays while trying to cut through and get into the Atlantic and deeper water where I could heave to and sleep..

I triggered the EPIRB before abandoning ship and trying to get onto the reef, she was sinking under me..
Forty (40) minutes later a big US Coast Guard Sikorsky helicopter out of San Juan lifted me battered and bruised off the reef in appalling conditions. Fabulous, brave flying by the US Coastguard. I learned of the forty minute details the next morning in Providence, Turks and Caicos Islands where the Coastguard had dropped me off. They chose Turks and Caicos as (A) I am a Brit and (B) because they were running on fumes and desperate for fuel to get home to San Juan.

Months later I called at the Coastguard Centre in Falmouth and thanked them. I was told that when my EPIRB went off, a look at a screen and a few button taps brought up my details, the itinerary and voyage details. Time/location of EPIRB signal indicated genuine distress and apparently they then telephoned San Juan office ( That's what I was told) spoke to US Coastguard and within the hour I was airborne on the way to safety and a very hilarious meeting with Immigration and Customs in the early hours of the morning.

Give the Coastguard a chance, with good information, location etc: and they will commit 100% to helping you..

That is an amazing story but, of course, your position would have been on a reef in terrible weather. So pretty obviously not a false alarm and therefore no need for delay.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bouba]

" Maybe that's all wrong, that's why I started the thread. I want to know what happens. "

I can't help with what happens off the Isle of Wight but from personal experience I can say what happens in the Caribbean.

Before I sailed single handed from Falmouth in late Spring 2005 I sent an 'Itinerary' of sorts to HM Coastguard at Falmouth. Nothing too precise, just departure date and voyage route to Greece with approximate timings, probable stopping places, Portimao, Gib, Ports on the Spanish Med coast, Balearics etc: and also timings for an Atlantic crossing the following year starting from my winter berth in Kalamata, Greece. Route from Greece and proposed departure date from Las Palmas once the ARC had cleared.

In the Spring of 2007 I got caught in the beginnings of an unexpected Tropical storm after I sailed from San Juan, Puerto Rico. Long story, 30 hours hand steering, no sleep etc; and I managed to stuff my Gaff Cutter on a reef somewhere about halfway between Rum and Samana Cays while trying to cut through and get into the Atlantic and deeper water where I could heave to and sleep..

I triggered the EPIRB before abandoning ship and trying to get onto the reef, she was sinking under me..
Forty (40) minutes later a big US Coast Guard Sikorsky helicopter out of San Juan lifted me battered and bruised off the reef in appalling conditions. Fabulous, brave flying by the US Coastguard. I learned of the forty minute details the next morning in Providence, Turks and Caicos Islands where the Coastguard had dropped me off. They chose Turks and Caicos as (A) I am a Brit and (B) because they were running on fumes and desperate for fuel to get home to San Juan.

Months later I called at the Coastguard Centre in Falmouth and thanked them. I was told that when my EPIRB went off, a look at a screen and a few button taps brought up my details, the itinerary and voyage details. Time/location of EPIRB signal indicated genuine distress and apparently they then telephoned San Juan office ( That's what I was told) spoke to US Coastguard and within the hour I was airborne on the way to safety and a very hilarious meeting with Immigration and Customs in the early hours of the morning.

Give the Coastguard a chance, with good information, location etc: and they will commit 100% to helping you..

Just out of interest.....were you sent a bill for your rescue and hospital treatment ? And did you get in any trouble for damaging a tropical reef ?.....finally....how did you get home ?

 

[veshengro]

Not wishing to side track Mark 1's thread, so briefly.

1. First Aid treatment by Aircrew only, basic dressings to arms , face and left knee. Later dressings change by nice lady in Hotel, resident Nurse I believe. No rescue or Medical charges.
2. No charges re any damage to Reef.
3. Two days in hotel waiting for British Airways flight to JFK New York (twice weekly from Turks & Caicos) at that time, I understand.
Alternative was to fly a US airline the day after rescue but too many stop offs, first was Miami I recall, then somewhere inland USA, then Boston.....
4. Walked through Gatwick Customs in jeans, Turks & Caicos T shirt, carrying just my grab bag and sticking plasters across my nose and cheek bone...

No matter how short the voyage..Always always pack a grab bag and put essentials, Credit cards, documents, etc: in it...Before you let go the mooring!!

 

[Greenheart]

Still thinking of inshore waters off the Isle of Wight, and of the lifeboat TV show, it always seems that despite the enormous energy and resources of the RNLI, the watchfulness (and connectedness) of shoreside observers, and the cleverness of today's tech, there is routinely a period when the floating casualty, like a dark football on the wide grey sea, just urgently needs locating.

I asked here about ten years ago, if nobody makes a really big, high-viz reflective flag with a pole that can pack down either to be wearable on a lifejacket, or grab-able with the items you take before consigning the boat to oblivion and stepping off.

Ten years back, somebody posted a link to a dan-buoy with a flag the size of a note pad.

The orange coat I bought for cycling in rain is such a glaring colour, mademoiselle can spot which boat is mine from half a mile. A flag of the same fabric, a metre square and complete with reflective strips (because the fabric is only high-viz with a degree of daylight) would be unmissable to anyone actively looking, or even to the many casual observers.

It doesn't seem like a huge task to create such a flag. Wouldn't it be a significant help? If I saw such a thing offshore while sailing, I'd certainly investigate.
.

 

[Roberto]

The orange coat I bought for cycling in rain is such a glaring colour, mademoiselle can spot which boat is mine from half a mile. A flag of the same fabric, a metre square and complete with reflective strips (because the fabric is only high-viz with a degree of daylight) would be unmissable to anyone actively looking, or even to the many casual observers.

It doesn't seem like a huge task to create such a flag. Wouldn't it be a significant help? If I saw such a thing offshore while sailing, I'd certainly investigate.
.

A similar signal is mandatory in some races, see Offshore Special Regulations, I made one with some leftovers of hi-viz fabric; it's rather for boat location than for an individual it's bigger than a square meter..

 

[Greenheart]

I wonder why such a means of attracting support would only be required or recommended for a yacht in distress? The TV show often shows RNLI crews frustrated by helpless, unlocated swimmers, kayakers or SUPers, separated from their craft, or MOBs who are inshore.

Why is something as basic and available and economical as a big high-viz flag, not basic to every individual's kit?

Liferafts are highly visible, given their colour and size. A flag needn't be much less obvious, even if it's only held by a desperate swimmer.

Difficult to imagine anything worse than seeing a rescue vessel clearly looking for you, and watching it pass and disappear, having judged the area you're in to be checked.

 

[Daydream believer]

Ten years back, somebody posted a link to a dan-buoy with a flag the size of a note pad.

Quite a few years ago there was a review of an inflatable balloon on a string that could be attached to the LJ. I have no idea what happened to the idea but it seems a far better system. If you have ever tried to find a dan buoy in even light breaking seas you will understand that a MOB flag waver will not be easy to see & the MOB may well drop the flag or become exhausted waving it. It will not be easy holding it upright as one becomes tired either. The baloon idea will at least stay working when the MOB loses conciousness.
Referring to the OP's question & comment re flares
I have a pouch attached to my Spinlock LJ. It is a little uncomfortable but carries my PLB plus a container with 10 pen flares.
I expect that they would only burn for a few seconds & only go a few feet up. However, they would help if someone was looking from the land or a vessel. It would be difficult to confuse a flare with a false alarm unless it was Nov 5th.
That being said, I was on safety boat duty in the club RIB & went to a fishing boat firing "flares". Seems that they were just playing with fireworks.
They stopped when I pointed out that our club bridge had reported a possible emergency.

 

[Greenheart]

I reckon in imminent danger of being lost without trace, I'd accept the challenge of keeping an orange flag flying. It would be fine on a tethered danbuoy that stays upright when the casualty begins to fade away, but needs to be much, much bigger and more conspicuous than the flags on the market, whose manufacturers seem to have non-emergency purposes in mind.

 

[mjcoon]

Quite a few years ago there was a review of an inflatable balloon on a string that could be attached to the LJ. I have no idea what happened to the idea but it seems a far better system. ...

If this balloon is self-inflating like other devices it will be full of heavy CO2 while what is wanted is He or H2. Maybe an inflatable kite if there is any wind? Of course these are going to influence drift calculation accuracy...

 

[Daydream believer]

If this balloon is self-inflating like other devices it will be full of heavy CO2 while what is wanted is He or H2. Maybe an inflatable kite if there is any wind? Of course these are going to influence drift calculation accuracy...

C02 is heavier than air. It would need a gas such as helium, that would make the ballon float high up. A continuously transmitting PLB would update any position change whether it be from current, or drift, due to wind or a balloon.

 

[mjcoon]

C02 is heavier than air. It would need a gas such as helium, that would make the ballon float high up. A continuously transmitting PLB would update any position change whether it be from current, or drift, due to wind or a balloon.

Quite. The problem is that He & H2 cannot be liquified into a cartridge like CO2, so I doubt they are practical for self-inflation. How long do PLBs transmit new fixes and are they continuously forwarded by satellites?

 

[Mark-1]

How long do PLBs transmit new fixes and are they continuously forwarded by satellites?

This one does 8 position messages a minute, for 24 hours.

rescueME PLB3 AIS, RLS & NFC Connectivity

 

[Daydream believer]

Quite. The problem is that He & H2 cannot be liquified into a cartridge like CO2, so I doubt they are practical for self-inflation.

One can buy small cartridge cylinders for inflating balloons with helium. One does not need a lot for one balloon. Consider how small a cartridge is for a LJ.
cartridge example
From this example it would suggest that a manufacturer could easily produce something suitable. Whilst Helium is not really a gas that can easily be liquified, presumably it can be compressed.

 

[Greenheart]

Oh, tell me there'll be an emergency Getaway Blimp. Looks like a regular lifejacket, but pull the cord and it lifts you clear into the air. Complete with a rocket-line for picking up a tow by Sea King.

 

[ctva]

...
(I will reveal the outcome once I've made it up I have Bob's permission to share it.)

Well,,,?

 

[capnsensible]

Well,,,?

Bob found a friend so he didn't have to go out and play with himself all alone.....

 

[mjcoon]

One can buy small cartridge cylinders for inflating balloons with helium. One does not need a lot for one balloon. Consider how small a cartridge is for a LJ.
cartridge example
From this example it would suggest that a manufacturer could easily produce something suitable. Whilst Helium is not really a gas that can easily be liquified, presumably it can be compressed.

Yes, that eBay item you found says "180-190 bar fill pressure", so even a six-inch long bottle would contain a reasonable balloon's worth. A bit less handy than an LJ bottle, though, which I'm sure contain liquid CO2. I wish I could be bothered to look up what compression pressure that is equivalent to. The item reviews, as usual, offer zero reassurance!

As you say, He is not so easily liquified. Although when I was a student the college eventually bought their own liquid nitrogen machine we always bought in the He. We endeavoured to save and return the gas, when we could.

 

[Daydream believer]

The item reviews, as usual, offer zero reassurance!

Fleebay!!- Cannot even be sure it is Helium. But the point is that the claim is there for a decent manufacturer to work with

 

[onesea]

One interesting one from this one. My misses doing day skippers, mine was a long time ago.

Offshore outof sight of land, no vessels in sight. Boat sinking taking to life raft would you use rocket flare?

My answer just the one. However answer was no, there is no one to see.

I guess that depends on your definition of offshore? Crossing/ channel coastal or mid ocean.

As for Bob, he should try. Worst case atleast relatives might have a body to morn. Without waiting 7 years for probate.

 

[NorthUp]

answer was no, there is no one to see.

Burning red at a thousand feet, you never know who's just over the horizon, gazing out the window!