Our first year with lithium

[geem]

12 months ago I built a 24v 280Ah lithium battery (8x280Ah cells). This was to replace our 4xTrojan 105s (225Ah @24v). Since swapping over to lithium, we have changed how we use our batteries dramatically. We used to have 720w of solar and a Duogen wind/ hydro turbine. Just after converting to lithium with added 200w of roving solar in the form of 4x50w Renogy flexible panels. These don't perform anything like as well as framed panels watt for watts but they do make about 500/600Wh per day. We add this to the suncover at anchor.
Since installing the lithium we found we made so much more power from the solar. Our harvest on the original 720w of solar jumped from 2kWh per day to over 3kWh per day. With the extra 200w of roving panels we see a peak of 4.2kWh on sunny day plus another 500/1000Wh from the wind if its blowing hard.
We now do all our cooking (except making bread and cakes in the gas oven) on an induction hob. Boiling water for tea and coffee are boiled on the induction hob. Our large gas bottle is the same one we installed last summer. We normally went through one in 6 weeks in the past.
Generator hours over the period from last October to now have dropped from 100hrs to 24. Almost all our watermaker water has come from the solar and lithium. This is approximately 60 to 80 litres per day. Hot water comes from the immersion heater. We generate all this power and convert it to 220v on a 3000w low frequency inverter.
In the heat of the Caribbean, the reduction in temperature in the galley is great. You don't realise how much heat gas cooking makes until you swap to induction. Also, we have now got used to not having the smell of gas. It's very obvious when the oven is on as the boat quickly smells of gas.
165 days ago, our second smaller lithium battery went on line. This a 105Ah 24v battery. Both batteries have the same specification JK 200A BMS with 2A active balancers.
This gives us some redundancy should a BMS fail. We won't lose the domestic batteries and I can drop a spare BMS in, in about 10 mins. The parallel installation of this second battery seems to play nicely with its larger sister. I installed dedicated bluetooth shunts on each battery so I could see how the amps in and out behave. What is interesting is each battery has a different charge profile. The charge profile is not linear.
If anybody is planning to liveaboard I cannot recommend lithium enough. The days of endeavouring to get your lead batteries to float is over. It just doesn't matter that much with lithium.
They are very happy to be sat at 50% charged for weeks at a time with no ill effects.
It's a very different mind set when you have lithium. We now think what should we do with the spare power we have. Make some more hot water? Make ice? A bit more drinking water? It was never an option to do these things without switching the generator on when we had lead batteries.

 

[Sea Change]

Good writeup.
We installed lithium about two and a half years ago and it's easily the best upgrade we have made to the boat. And it didn't even cost much- considerably less than e.g. installing a generator.

We still use gas very occasionally, but the last time we changed out our small Campingaz bottle was over a year ago. I don't know what the current going rate is for gas but the last time we bought a bottle it was €33! At that price our lithium will already have paid for itself

I've become a bit evangelical about solar/lithium. The days of needing to burn dead dinosaurs just to keep the lights on or cook your dinner are over. Yet there are still boats out there running generators for hours every day. I'm not sure what they can possibly be doing with all the power... probably getting lead acid batteries on to float...

 

[Neeves]

Good summaries from both of you, Geem and Sea Change.

Geem - you underline that it works and the key is - because you have a large, if not massive, solar display. We have just had 4 days of overcast skies and heavy rain, 20mm yesterday over the 24 hours to 9am this morning. Either you need to have a bigger battery bank, or burn dead dinosaur's food - vegetation.

I can recommend an electric bread maker to Geem, best thing since sliced... . The big power usage is at the end of the cycle when the bread actually bakes, the rest is mixing and proving, so if the domestic banks is a bit low - programme the bake cycle to be when you need to run the motor entering an anchorage/anchoring. Needs a bit of thought but well worth it.

And if you have plenty of power there is nothing quite like the smell of freshly baked bread first thing in the morning.

Jonathan

 

[geem]

Good summaries from both of you, Geem and Sea Change.

Geem - you underline that it works and the key is - because you have a large, if not massive, solar display. We have just had 4 days of overcast skies and heavy rain, 20mm yesterday over the 24 hours to 9am this morning. Either you need to have a bigger battery bank, or burn dead dinosaur's food - vegetation.

I can recommend an electric bread maker to Geem, best thing since sliced... . The big power usage is at the end of the cycle when the bread actually bakes, the rest is mixing and proving, so if the domestic banks is a bit low - programme the bake cycle to be when you need to run the motor entering an anchorage/anchoring. Needs a bit of thought but well worth it.

And if you have plenty of power there is nothing quite like the smell of freshly baked bread first thing in the morning.

Jonathan

We have a bread maker at home that will be joining next year when we sail back to the Caribbean.
We have the smell of fresh bread here as my wife is a fan of home baked bread, but the bread maker would make life a little easier.

 

[Minerva]

All a good write up and positive things guys.

We don’t live aboard, but onboard most weekends and rarely in a marina. Just launched and my lead acid batteries 3x120ah feel quite weak and down to 85% after 24h of only light loads - charging phone x1, laptop x1 and running instruments.

Suspect I’ll be taking the jump and installing lithium before our summer cruise in July…

 

[geem]

All a good write up and positive things guys.

We don’t live aboard, but onboard most weekends and rarely in a marina. Just launched and my lead acid batteries 3x120ah feel quite weak and down to 85% after 24h of only light loads - charging phone x1, laptop x1 and running instruments.

Suspect I’ll be taking the jump and installing lithium before our summer cruise in July…

Let us know if you need any advice. Happy to assist

 

[Sea Change]

Good summaries from both of you, Geem and Sea Change.

Geem - you underline that it works and the key is - because you have a large, if not massive, solar display. We have just had 4 days of overcast skies and heavy rain, 20mm yesterday over the 24 hours to 9am this morning. Either you need to have a bigger battery bank, or burn dead dinosaur's food - vegetation.

I can recommend an electric bread maker to Geem, best thing since sliced... . The big power usage is at the end of the cycle when the bread actually bakes, the rest is mixing and proving, so if the domestic banks is a bit low - programme the bake cycle to be when you need to run the motor entering an anchorage/anchoring. Needs a bit of thought but well worth it.

And if you have plenty of power there is nothing quite like the smell of freshly baked bread first thing in the morning.

Jonathan

Or just get an electric oven. We have a Remoska. It's far superior to the gas oven, which burns things at the back.

 

[geem]

Or just get an electric oven. We have a Remoska. It's far superior to the gas oven, which burns things at the back.

Have you got a link to that? I can only find an electric pan

 

[Sea Change]

Have you got a link to that? I can only find an electric pan

It does look like a pan, but the heating element is in the lid so it functions as a small oven.
We bought a secondhand one on impulse and it's been fantastic. It's about 600w which is fairly manageable. Does good pizza, lasagne, roast chicken. The only real complaint I'd have is that it's a bit shallow. A bit of foil on top of the bread for the last ten minutes of baking is the trick to prevent the top of the loaf getting burnt.

 

[geem]

It does look like a pan, but the heating element is in the lid so it functions as a small oven.
We bought a secondhand one on impulse and it's been fantastic. It's about 600w which is fairly manageable. Does good pizza, lasagne, roast chicken. The only real complaint I'd have is that it's a bit shallow. A bit of foil on top of the bread for the last ten minutes of baking is the trick to prevent the top of the loaf getting burnt.

Ah, OK. Showed the Mrs and she won't bite. Says that that won't replace her oven when she is baking. We will have to wait for a decent electric oven to hit the market.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Have you got a link to that? I can only find an electric pan

]There seems to be several different types

Amazon.co.uk

 

[geem]

]There seems to be several different types

Amazon.co.uk

Yep. Try telling the Mrs she's got a pan instead of an oven

 

[rogerthebodger]

Yep. Try telling the Mrs she's got a pan instead of an oven

I purchased the Mrs an induction hob and she was jubus until she used it and is now converted

 

[geem]

I purchased the Mrs an induction hob and she was jubus until she used it and is now converted

Mrs has been using an induction hob for about 15 years. I just can't convince her to lose her oven

 

[rogerthebodger]

Mrs has been using an induction hob for about 15 years. I just can't convince her to lose her oven

When I built my boat I just did not fit one I just fitted a microwave in stead. My previous one has a gas oven which kept burning the food

 

[Laser310]

The issue is that it can be really difficult to add sufficient solar to a monohull.

I'm not sure I would want an aft arch on a boat under about 45ft.., and without that, it becomes very difficult.

Bread makers.., induction hobs.., etc. are all AC devices running off an inverter - right?

 

[geem]

When I built my boat I just did not fit one I just fitted a microwave in stead. My previous one has a gas oven which kept burning the food

She is reluctant to even use the microwave at home. When we got the boat we took the electric oven off and the microwave. We also ditched the washing machine!
The boat was all electric in the days when you needed to run the generator to cook.

 

[Sea Change]

Mrs has been using an induction hob for about 15 years. I just can't convince her to lose her oven

No need to lose the oven, the Remoska is just an additional way of cooking. Our oven remains in place for wherever we have specific cooking needs and want to cremate something on one side.

 

[Sea Change]

The issue is that it can be really difficult to add sufficient solar to a monohull.

I'm not sure I would want an aft arch on a boat under about 45ft.., and without that, it becomes very difficult.

Bread makers.., induction hobs.., etc. are all AC devices running off an inverter - right?

You can think outside the box. We've got 1200w on a 39ft mono. And that's old secondhand panels, modern ones would squeeze a bit more power out of the same area of panels.

We have two 100w panels on the foredeck (these are removed for serious passages), and another two on the guard wires.
The bimini is a rigid frame which cannot be folded down. Instead of canvas, it's made up from two large (1.7*1m) rigid panels at 260w each (modern ones would be more like 340w for this size) plus another two 100w panels at the centerline. There is also a perspex window for a better view of the mainsail- we could probably have fitted yet another 100w there is we really wanted. Finally, there is a 30w panel on the hatch garage, but it's an old flexible panel and doesn't really work any more.

All of our cooking is run from an inverter. We have to be a little careful not to turn on too many things at once, but you weight get used to it. The battery monitor is visible at the galley so you can see how close you are getting- our limit is 400A from the batteries in total, and 200A through the inverter.

The induction hob draws 60A per ring, the air fryer about 110A, and the Remoska is about 55A.

 

[GHA]

The issue is that it can be really difficult to add sufficient solar to a monohull.

I'm not sure I would want an aft arch on a boat under about 45ft.., and without that, it becomes very difficult.

Bread makers.., induction hobs.., etc. are all AC devices running off an inverter - right?

Where LiFePo4 really comes into it's own is either full time liveaboard or big long stints on the hook, for those kind of boats a radar arch isn't a big deal & priorities can be quite different, I'm 33' & wouldn't be without a radar arch. Though the 110w up there doesn't produce anywhere near as much as the other 2 100w on the guard rails each side. Pesky radar & antennas shading it
As LiFePo4 will get much more power out of solar every day than lead acid a big inverter is not such a bad thing, I can weld with skinny rods & spend 10 minutes cleaning a bit coppercoat most days with a compressor & hukkah which would be dreamland on less than a monster LA bank. Such a gamechanger!