Should yacht racing be restricted ?

[MADFISH]

If a race boat infringes the colregs during a race, a cruising sailor can put in a protest to the race committee. They would then hear the case as a normel protest. Should the other party be disqualified, they could not discard that result in their series. The race committee could disqualify the boat from the entire series/years racing!

Thats how to upset the arrogant ones. I know someone that has done it.

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[Guest]

Hang on! What on earth rules did DeeGee use on sailing to and from the race area?

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[peterb]

But of course the first problem is to find out which race the offender is in, then to find the whereabouts of the race committee. Then you'll have to appear in person, preferably with witnesses. Not easy for a cruising yacht. Maybe the RYA should have a central register to which you could protest?

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[jac]

The only real solution is understanding and co operation on both sides. Yacht Racers must learn that they do have to give way to cruisers in certain situations, Cruisers must lean to take early avoiding action to stay clear of fleets and race officials need to set courses with an eye to the needs of all water uses.

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[Benny1]

As a nasty powerboater, I can sort of sympathise. In N Wales, where I boat, there are regularly very large fleets (often 100 plus) of small dingies/yachts in Abersoch bay. They always seem to race a course between the Islands and the moorings, which is right in the path of all boats heading west from Pwllheli Marina.

It's not really a problem for us, as going round one end of the course, leaving enough space to dissipate our wash, only takes an extra 5 or so minutes. However, I feel sorry for sailors who will have to make a detour of 10-20 mins unless they want to plough straight through the middle of a fleet of small boats.

I often wonder if there is not a better place (or different configuration) they could put the course that wouldn't creat such an obstacle in the middle of such a busy bay, but not being a regular sailor I am not sure.

On a seperate note, I once read a post on here from someone who complained about anchoring off SCYC in Abersoch , then having people skiing and wakeboarding straight past him. He said that the he was just in the channel beyond the yellow marker buoys and that he thought these buoys indicated where one could speed up. Whilst this is true and there is a 4 knot limit within the buoys, I have always thought that the buoys marked the ski lane. Indeed, when they were new (which is now many years ago) they used to have SKI written on them in large letters. Skiiers cannot go any further out into the bay as this is taken up by SCYC moorings and beyond those it is often too rough to ski. Therefore I think that this fellow was actually anchored int he ski lane (which many yachts have to do at low tide). If so he has no real right to complain.

I think both these cases are probably similar in that they both cause some irritation to those not partaking the race/skiing, but it is really a problem of where else do you do it. I think it's just a consequence of lots of people trying to use the same stretch of water. With a little tolerance, there is more than enough space for everyone out there.

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[Gunfleet]

You should try sailing down the Crouch one day when there's a fleet of them beating towards you. They wig-wag all over the river and there's so many you don't have a chance of niceties like port/starboard, windward boat. The best (but probably illegal) action is to hold your course. As soon as you make a move to give way to one you've mucked up one of the others. What racers need to remember when they're in a fleet on a relatively narrow river with moorings on it is that it's very difficult for a cruiser to know what to do when confronted by them.

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[Forbsie]

I raced in the Crouch for about 5 years and if it's any consolation, I cannot remember any occasion where we blamed the cruiser in a situation like this. Most of the time this was because we were further back and it enabled us to catch some good wind and overtake those in front. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Best just to hold your course and when things calm down and you see a hole just go for it. At least in the Crouch it's easy to identify the clubs by the class of boat and that in most cases the offending fleet will have had a Royal Burnham start coz their Race Officer hasn't got a clue. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[jimi]

You do get some dicks though, a Hobie once called starboard on me in just outside Poole in a F6, when he was screaming along out of control, with the best will in the world (and I do'nt really feel up to another CR debate) there's not really a lot you can do ..

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[Eudorajab]

If you want it restricted .. why not ban it all together as that will surely be the next step. Surely if we all use a little common sense like trying wherever possible to avoid the sailing fleets instead of standing on and tearing throught he centre of them there is enough water for everyone? Granted some clubs have there races in the most weird and wonderfull places especially in the solent where sometimes you have no option but to sail through the middle of them and to the inexperienced it may seem daunting and even totally scary. In this case and in my experience, the racing crews (with the very odd exception) realise this and act accordingly. The problem seems to be when there is loads of water but the cruising yacht for whatever reason decides that it is his god given right to tear through the race. So what if a course change adds a bit more time to your journey. If you are that concerned about arriving at your destination in the quickest possible time you should probably be racing anyway.

I personally would certainly feel a bit narked if I was racing flat out and some someone forced me to change course and hence lose time for no apparent reason. Likewise if space is tight its not too bad as the chances are that most if not all the fleet are goona have to do the same at some point in time.

The biggest problem arises IMHO when both racing crew and cruising crew are inexperienced. Then all hell breaks loose and tempers rightly or wrongly flare up.

Me personally, I try to live and let live. Theres enough space for everyone and common sense will always prevail.

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[sailbadthesinner]

another problem is the fleet thing

the boat coming at you views himself as an individual case
not realising that behind him is an entire fleetand you avoiding him may put in the path of the rest of a fleet causing all hell to break lose.

my only observation on this is this story

ISORA race from holyhead round the cans
crew of a boat have disagreement . one of crew jumps off boat at windward mark in full knowledge it will disqualify boat.

THAT is how mad some racers are.

the key i fear is to have set racing areas or set times.keep the two apart. segregation is the key. too often you hear race officers shouting as cruisers go near their line. they act like they own the chuffin water. the open water belonghs to cruisers like the open road, give the race boys race tracks.

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[MADFISH]

Yes they do. Just get the sail no of the offending yacht. The RYA hold a central register of sail nos and the club that the boat belongs to. It is then a simple task for the club to discover the exact race the boat was in. Believe me, they will find out.



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[max_power]

Give it up !

Like Alcoholics Anonymous the first step to recovery is announcing what you are.

I want you to send me weekly reports on how you are doing.

Remember ! Others have done it – so can you !




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[max_power]

I have enjoyed all the responses to this thread and it is comforting to know that there is at least recognition that there is a problem with SOME racing boats. Some contributors still seem to believe that racing in a public area is a right.

It is my view however, that the problem is getting worse every year and despite genuine efforts of non racers to keep clear where possible, the majority still believe that the classic ‘I’am racing’ rules OK

Some years ago, I used to crew on one of these ‘all out’ racers. I found the general attitude towards others as appalling. You could have just sailed round the world on your lonesome with one hand tied behind your back , but to them, you are still that idiot in my way. How can you reason with this kind of mindset?

Believe me, I have tried to reason in a polite sensible matter with offending yacht clubs but have got nowhere as the same attitude persists on the committee’s as it does for the racers.

Like most things in our lives, what will bring about change will be a very nasty accident. This seems inevitable.



















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[bigmart]

"Some contributors still seem to believe that racing in a public area is a right. "

Yet again you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. Reasonable people believe that access to public areas, FOR ALL, is a right. Your general attitude leads me to believe that any yacht club that you contacted would rapdly dismiss you as the lunatic fringe. They would, justifiably, take absolutley no notice of you, as would most reasonable people. No matter how old they were.

Martin


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[Guest]

One wonders how many others have the same experience that over many years when boats racing or cruising in all kinds of combinations pass close (whatever 'close' may mean) give each other a friendly wave in passing. The problems raised here are surely isolated and possibly exaggerated.
One wonders if some inexperienced people start getting worried when there is no liklihood of collision. Rather like (not infrequent) as skipper being woken up by novice crew on watch to report steamers lights. Up on deck and the thing is nowhere near!

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[hlb]

Two occasions spring to mind. Once in the Solent. Cows week. Cruising slowly heading fo Pool. Suddenly surounded by hundreds, well I was not counting at the time. Of big heavy Telegraph pole sticking out the front thingies, heading for me from both sides. I momentarily stopped the boat, thinking it was safer to have a crash stopped rather than on the move. Then came up with an impossible plan which involved meticulas timing, leaving one boat to pass within a foot of my stern and another heading straight for my bows. So with one engine in reverse I hooked the boat round and then gave it all 400HP to avoid being rammed. Good job I'm not a novice!!

Another time, struggling out of Salcolmbe on one engine and vertualy no steering. The kids in dingies seemed to think they had a god given right to any water they saw fit. Needless to say, they did not get it.

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Haydn

 

[bigmart]

Being Solent based I have had many extremely close encounters with racing fleets. I must say that I cannot recall any incident that required more than friendly rhetoric from either party. Usually these a polite request to clear a start line or course together with some sensible advice to make sure that we all enjoy our time on the water is the worse that we get. This is in stark contrast to people like the Stinkie, a couple of years ago, who intentionally passed. ay high speed, within 8 feet of my transom & cut the fishing lines I was trailing. All this was in acres of clear water. I was pretty incensed, at this idiot, but you dont find me advocating the torpedoing of anything over 20 HP except in jest.

The water is for everybody & long may it remain so.

Martin

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[nicho]

In my ignorance, and to avoid any embarrassment in the future, how do you mark your starting lines? Having been caught up in one Cowes week mele when trying to navigate from Port Solent to Yarmouth, I'll probably keep well away in future (I meekly gave way to everybody!!). It might, however, help the rest of us ignoramuses (ignorami?) to avoid sailing through your starting line area this year.

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[hlb]

You'll have trouble doing that. The start line is usually the entrance to the Harbour or half way up the river. Or like in Cowes week. Just about every where.

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Haydn

 

[max_power]

You have got to start to understand that not everyone either thinks like you, or behaves like you. You seem to take the stance that everyone is an idiot if they don’t think like you. This is a basic thing that most of us have accepted a long time ago. If you think I am on the lunatic fringe after being struck twice by racing boats and then, in a logical reasonable way, contact the clubs concerned, I cannot see why I should not be taken seriously. PLEASE respond with FACTS why this should not be so. I will then try to understand the points you are making. After all, what’s the point of a forum if we cannot understand each other ?

With regard to your points with us all having rights on the water. I agree. But we are all bound by the colregs . Many racers choose NOT to follow them. A similar situation arises on public roads where we are governed by rules and laws. Also on things like byways footpaths etc. As far as I know, racing , is not allowed on our roads or footpaths etc. One often comes across bicycle road racing where , I think, a special licence is required to ensure safety for both competitors and other road users. This case does not I think, apply to yacht racing where quite large fleets are involved, and may affect quite narrow stretches of water used by us all. As one contributor has mentioned, the Round the Island and Cowes week etc are events that most people are aware of and make a special effort to avoid if not racing. I think yacht racing then, is fairly unique in allowing competitive action ( I am talking mainly of larger yachts of say Sonata and up). It would be my guess, that if large yacht racing were to have started today without ever having taken place before, it would be run in a very different way.

I would not class myself as a particularly knowledgeable or experienced sailor compared to many on this forum. I did start yacht racing in the early sixties in dinghy’s and other boats, and took part competitively in a number of other sports like the rest of us.

It is my experience in life that certain people will take risks whilst racing or competing (in any sport) that they would not do in the normal run of things. This is why there are racetracks for cars motorbikes etc ( to protect the innocent). This then is my whole point of this thread. I really do believe that larger yacht racing is spoiling the enjoyment for others, and also causing harm ( in my case being hit twice last year despite trying to be reasonable). I also believe that yacht racing should be a privilege and not a right, as you seem to think it should be.

If you are just going to suggest for the third time that I am bordering on being a lunatic please at least back it up with intelligent argument. If not, I request the ruling from the Forum Moderator . Failing that, I request a forum poll and the one with the least votes agrees not to contribute to these forums.




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