Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[JumbleDuck]

Re: Update!

Its a Polyester boat, I would therefore use polyester to go onto the hull for extra strength you can put in woven glass into the CSM

New polyester does not stick particularly well to old, cured polyester. Epoxy sticks much better. You can save money by using a layer of epoxy, then polyester, but it's not much of a saving.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Too far for me to travel. But do it and post the video and I'll congratulate you and say I was wrong. It'll be some achievement.

Plus in December you'd need Neptune in a survival suit.

It’s just around the corner from you and the water in Chichester is kept warm by Mermaids lighting fires of moon dust, it's a balmy 27 degrees Celsius, trust me!

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

You're going to need to spend some seriously long days to achieve that timetable. Don't you have a job to occupy your time?

I work for myself. And I decided to take some time to do this while I can as opposed to when I no longer can lift a hammer from the toolbox. I do develop products at the same time. Some of which is a collection of Path lights and urban lighting and some other stuff that pays the soup and I enjoy developing. No more rat race for me.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

I'm just wondering what a survey at this stage is going to tell you? As far as I can see now it's a bare hull. There's nothing a surveyor will see that your own eyes wont. will you listen to anything a surveyor says or just do your own thing? I'm inclined to think save your money.

It's a very good one. I knocked the hull so many times with a plastic hammer that I’m afraid I'll start breaking it if I do it once again. There are a couple of things I’d like a brutal opinion to be honest. The first survey is relatively simple for as you say it’s just a bare hull. There are a couple of things like the rudder showing greyish areas inside and a part of the hull that I fear may have some delamination, small area but I may be wrong and spend the money and time. We decided to go for the surveyor because of that. I also would like a record of some form or shape how she was when we started. We have no intention of selling her, but at some stage we may, and it’s good to have proper records of all that.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

New polyester does not stick particularly well to old, cured polyester. Epoxy sticks much better. You can save money by using a layer of epoxy, then polyester, but it's not much of a saving.

I have been advised to do that by a few people already, one owns a refit business and said exactly the same thing. Better to spend it there and subtract it from time and hassle coefficient later.
Not really sure yet. Honest answer.

 

[pandos]

Re: Update!

"....I am going to do it the way I WANT to do it, If I come into difficulties I will solve them so that I can do it the way I want. Within my budget as much as I can. Within my ways, expertise, knowledge and tooling...."

Daft is the decision to use an entrance that slides left to right, over humps on tracks, on a seagoing yacht that will probably require the hatch to remain open half of the time on one tack in defiance of gravity and to remain closed in defiance of gravity on the other tack, and when partially open or fully open will not keep water out of the cabin if the cockpit is pooped....lets not refer to the crushed hands in the event of an unintended tack, gybe or broach, or the need to physically lift the hatch to get out in a knockdown on the wrong tack...yes a catch can be designed etc.... etc....

daft is the desision to do any work prior to floating the hull with rigging up and tensioned and allowing the keel to pull rather than push for a few months so that the hull takes up what is the natural shape for that boat in use, prior to inserting bulkheads and windows.

daft is coming onto a forum for practical advice and saying "I am going to do it the way I WANT to do it, If I come into difficulties I will solve them so that I can do it the way I want. Within my budget as much as I can. Within my ways, expertise, knowledge and tooling. "

I wish you well but you have no obvious need of this forum given your clear position regarding others' views when they appear to contradict yours

enough said

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

"....I am going to do it the way I WANT to do it, If I come into difficulties I will solve them so that I can do it the way I want. Within my budget as much as I can. Within my ways, expertise, knowledge and tooling...."

Daft is the decision to use an entrance that slides left to right, over humps on tracks, on a seagoing yacht that will probably require the hatch to remain open half of the time on one tack in defiance of gravity and to remain closed in defiance of gravity on the other tack, and when partially open or fully open will not keep water out of the cabin if the cockpit is pooped....lets not refer to the crushed hands in the event of an unintended tack, gybe or broach, or the need to physically lift the hatch to get out in a knockdown on the wrong tack...yes a catch can be designed etc.... etc....

daft is the desision to do any work prior to floating the hull with rigging up and tensioned and allowing the keel to pull rather than push for a few months so that the hull takes up what is the natural shape for that boat in use, prior to inserting bulkheads and windows.

daft is coming onto a forum for practical advice and saying "I am going to do it the way I WANT to do it, If I come into difficulties I will solve them so that I can do it the way I want. Within my budget as much as I can. Within my ways, expertise, knowledge and tooling. "

I wish you well but you have no obvious need of this forum given your clear position regarding others' views when they appear to contradict yours

enough said

I think you totally miss the part about asking me what I know about it, what my experience is etc.

Even before I asked for ANYTHING other than Colvic Countess 33 General Info I was “OFFERED “what I should be doing. Armchair Admiral type of you have to do it this way type of thing.
Daft is to presume without asking, and you have NOT, what my plans are.
Not daft is coming to a forum and asking for opinions on what I actually intend to do and how to best succeed at it.
Not DAFT was my Grandfather with a sliding door on the cockpit of a fully crewed fishing sailing boat that NEVER took on water or got someone’s fingers on a lose sliding door.
But it may, just may be daft, trying to find a door panel that is somewhere on a locker on down in the cabin while the water in the cockpit sloshes happily to the inside with the boat heeled and beating. More dangerous is coming up the stairs with said panel with boat heeling and beating. Even more dangerous is having a crew handle the boat on a sudden stronger than expected squall while someone rummages through the locker and takes stuff out to find the panel / panels that slid under the all thing. Now if I may add, EVEN MORE DAFT is when the boat is healed exactly to the side the locker is and there is someone pointing head first into the water or locker trying to get the panel while the boat merrily jumps and moves whichever way the wind and waves sees fit.
Daft are all the competition and exploration boats for NOT having such silly doors.

But hey were good, just a matter of perspective.

 

[pvb]

Re: Update!

Even before I asked for ANYTHING other than Colvic Countess 33 General Info I was “OFFERED “what I should be doing. Armchair Admiral type of you have to do it this way type of thing.

In fairness, I think you received a lot of good wishes and positive support when you first posted. But then you said you expected to finish it in 4-6 months and within a £20K budget, and a lot of people considered that rather too ambitious.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

In fairness, I think you received a lot of good wishes and positive support when you first posted. But then you said you expected to finish it in 4-6 months and within a £20K budget, and a lot of people considered that rather too ambitious.

Which is very fair. But they are judging that according to their means tooling and experience, not mine, are they? I tend to listen, then to ask did you think that through? Have you calculated it well?
And even then, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and ask, “how can I help?” WHY on earth would you diss a project you don’t really know based on one simple fact and failing to take into account a myriad of other elements that can make or break the budget?
Hell, I AM the first one to be sceptical, well the second, my wife’s the first. Having said that there are ways to positively express one’s opinions without making the second into a gibbering clown incapable of thought or comprehension. Maybe I got that wrong. I really did think it was how things SHOULD be done.
Never saw “patronising “ as an incentive to someone.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Update!

Which is very fair. But they are judging that according to their means tooling and experience, not mine, are they? I tend to listen, then to ask did you think that through? Have you calculated it well?
And even then, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and ask, “how can I help?” WHY on earth would you diss a project you don’t really know based on one simple fact and failing to take into account a myriad of other elements that can make or break the budget?
Hell, I AM the first one to be sceptical, well the second, my wife’s the first. Having said that there are ways to positively express one’s opinions without making the second into a gibbering clown incapable of thought or comprehension. Maybe I got that wrong. I really did think it was how things SHOULD be done.
Never saw “patronising “ as an incentive to someone.

Once again would be interested to know what is so absolutely special about your tools and experience that will enable you to do what everybody who knows what they are talking about believes is impossible - that is complete your boat in 8 months for £20k. You will recall that I suggested ballpark hours for completion that mean you will have to be 4-5 times per hour more productive than experienced and well organised boatbuilders doing a similar task. You will also recall approximate cost calculations that are at least double your budget. How are you going to halve costs while using "exotic" materials and equipment that is unproven? My estimates are based on having run a boatbuilding operation commercially and having completed a GRP hull to finished boat single handed. Others have weighed in with either personal experience or close observation of others completing boats from hulls. All come to the same conclusion - what you propose is simply unachievable.

I am sure we are all waiting to know exactly why you think this advice seems to be all wrong and you know better.

By the way, I also wonder why you want to change hatch design which is just about universal and does not prove to be the problem you claim it is. If you don't like washboards then use hinged companionway doors as are fitted to my current boat - not that I have ever had problems with washboards. Still you seem to "enjoy" trying to solve non-existent problems - maybe it serves as a diversion from actually building the boat!

 

[Ludd]

Re: Update!

Once again would be interested to know what is so absolutely special about your tools and experience that will enable you to do what everybody who knows what they are talking about believes is impossible - that is complete your boat in 8 months for £20k. You will recall that I suggested ballpark hours for completion that mean you will have to be 4-5 times per hour more productive than experienced and well organised boatbuilders doing a similar task. You will also recall approximate cost calculations that are at least double your budget. How are you going to halve costs while using "exotic" materials and equipment that is unproven? My estimates are based on having run a boatbuilding operation commercially and having completed a GRP hull to finished boat single handed. Others have weighed in with either personal experience or close observation of others completing boats from hulls. All come to the same conclusion - what you propose is simply unachievable.

I am sure we are all waiting to know exactly why you think this advice seems to be all wrong and you know better.

By the way, I also wonder why you want to change hatch design which is just about universal and does not prove to be the problem you claim it is. If you don't like washboards then use hinged companionway doors as are fitted to my current boat - not that I have ever had problems with washboards. Still you seem to "enjoy" trying to solve non-existent problems - maybe it serves as a diversion from actually building the boat!

My Nab35 has a sliding door to the compaionway. Has a catch to keep it where it:s put. I have also fitted washboards to cockpit locker/seat height to stop the occasional splash going below. Having said that, the only time they wojld have been of use was in a full on broach.

 

[steveeasy]

Re: Update!

390 posts are not for nothing. Hey Personally I don't think youll finish by the end of next year, but and its a big one. I like your project, I like your posts and its very interesting. I hope you do finish in your timescales though. Really looking forward to seeing you get stuck in

The videos will be really good fun. lets have as many as you can do showing progress.

Good Luck

Steveeasy

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Once again would be interested to know what is so absolutely special about your tools and experience that will enable you to do what everybody who knows what they are talking about believes is impossible - that is complete your boat in 8 months for £20k. You will recall that I suggested ballpark hours for completion that mean you will have to be 4-5 times per hour more productive than experienced and well organised boatbuilders doing a similar task. You will also recall approximate cost calculations that are at least double your budget. How are you going to halve costs while using "exotic" materials and equipment that is unproven? My estimates are based on having run a boatbuilding operation commercially and having completed a GRP hull to finished boat single handed. Others have weighed in with either personal experience or close observation of others completing boats from hulls. All come to the same conclusion - what you propose is simply unachievable.

I am sure we are all waiting to know exactly why you think this advice seems to be all wrong and you know better.

By the way, I also wonder why you want to change hatch design which is just about universal and does not prove to be the problem you claim it is. If you don't like washboards then use hinged companionway doors as are fitted to my current boat - not that I have ever had problems with washboards. Still you seem to "enjoy" trying to solve non-existent problems - maybe it serves as a diversion from actually building the boat!

It is a fair question even if slanted.
12 years ago, I almost died. Too much stress will do that to you. I walked away from my previous occupation and make much less dosh but I’m way happier. It’s amazing how your life changes after a near death experience. As the head of advanced mould development and material research of a Dutch company, I spent my time between the lab workshop and a plane. Until THAT day in Rotterdam, the one I woke up in Hospital with very serious looking doctors talking Klingon to me.
I walked away from that life or to be honest, I just did not go back to it. But my knowledge is how I pay for the melon’s. Everything I do has to do with moulding in one way or another. I no longer spend days in the lab in front of a gas chromatographer or trying and testing resin compounds on silicone / carbon fibre moulds. Or even playing with NASA strands of Space thread that cut through the metal of the needle and some parts of the sewing machines for high strength textiles. Kevlar and aluminium make amazing materials when put together with the right resin. Moulds small and large, advanced and simple, high-tech and low tech. Medical grade silicones to plate forming for Cement, Silicones to metal. Kevlar to carbon fibre. Blue wax to High vacuum plastic forming.
And in all this, I never ONCE played with fibreglass.
If I would conform to your view I would need £56.783,28 to finish the boat. Item by item. Except the teas coffees and scones, I forgot to add those. (I did add 5 months of Marina and electric charges plus lifting 4x for various reasons)
Included are even 3 pairs of work boots.
The first bulkhead on the boat, Chain locker forward cabin is made of ply. That is going to come out and a new one made of Aluminium Honeycomb reinforced with Kevlar/ Carbon fibre is going to occupy that place, COST: £ 0 (old samples) I’ll buy the resin… Stainless, I got quite a bit, rests of jobs here and there. COST =£ 0 the rest? Screws COST =£0 etc
Other bits are going to make you Cringe, especially when you see what materials I’m going to use and HOW I am going to use them. I will explain when I finish HOW I got everything and how much it cost. Then YOU can try it.
I said, I never worked with FIBREGLASS, (funny enough I never did) But I may very well know one of two things you may not. It’s possible... Perhaps not. Everyone seems to know best …

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

My Nab35 has a sliding door to the compaionway. Has a catch to keep it where it:s put. I have also fitted washboards to cockpit locker/seat height to stop the occasional splash going below. Having said that, the only time they wojld have been of use was in a full on broach.

Yeah that a revolving issue type of discussion, I've considered having the bottom part slide to close and prevent water ingress. The door is still ajar on that one. It’s an issue I discussed with a few other people and they also seem to agree its mostly on a broach that you come to need them. On the catch I’m considering a running latch that blocks the door on any position it finds itself in. just to prevent accidental sliding. But the jury is still out on the all thing.
One thing I want is a sliding BUG screen just behind the door… hate mozzies…

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

390 posts are not for nothing. Hey Personally I don't think youll finish by the end of next year, but and its a big one. I like your project, I like your posts and its very interesting. I hope you do finish in your timescales though. Really looking forward to seeing you get stuck in

The videos will be really good fun. lets have as many as you can do showing progress.

Good Luck

Steveeasy

The hard bit is the one we are doing now, fishing for info’s and supplier’s and stuff, I miss being at the boat and really getting stuck in. Can’t wait for some proper sailor’s grind dust on my face.
I’ll try to work on the next video today. Been stuck at the computers for way too long.
That’s one of the best projects I ever made, glad you like it. I did make the first video to show the boat to my wife and for her not to kill me. I may not have told her immediately I bought a fancy sailboat.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Update!

The first bulkhead on the boat, Chain locker forward cabin is made of ply. That is going to come out and a new one made of Aluminium Honeycomb reinforced with Kevlar/ Carbon fibre is going to occupy that place, COST: £ 0 (old samples) I’ll buy the resin… Stainless, I got quite a bit, rests of jobs here and there. COST =£ 0 the rest? Screws COST =£0 etc
Other bits are going to make you Cringe, especially when you see what materials I’m going to use and HOW I am going to use them. I will explain when I finish HOW I got everything and how much it cost. Then YOU can try it.
I said, I never worked with FIBREGLASS, (funny enough I never did) But I may very well know one of two things you may not. It’s possible... Perhaps not. Everyone seems to know best …

While all those bits and bobs add up they are fleabites compared with the huge unavoidable costs which you can't cover with bits left over in the back of your shed. You might save £50 worth of ply for your free bulkhead, but do you have enough free bits to build all the furniture inside the boat? or are you going to sit at a picnic table on camp chairs and sleep in hammocks. Don't forget you may well want boring things like electricity throughout and a good instant supply of hot and cold running water, then somewhere to go to the loo and store your waste before discharging it safely. All this after you have paid for and installed controllable motive power from your rig and engine.

I really am genuinely interested in why you think you can do all this in the time you plan when NOBODY else has ever managed it, when you admit you have never done any GRP work and have never built a boat before. You really seem to have no concept of what is involved, and dare I say it dodge the question whenever it is raised with a load of waffle about your special skills, tools etc none of which seem in the least bit relevant to boat building of the type you are undertaking.

There is nothing magic about building a boat from a bare hull and deck - the hard bit of designing it and creating the boat shaped void is done for you. There are tried and tested ways of filling that void which are well within the capability of a reasonably handy person. There is no need to deviate significantly from those tried and tested ways - in fact the opposite as the failures invariably come from either totally underestimating the task (as you seem to be) or thinking you know better than the "experts".

So, you have a choice. Either you come down from whatever cloud you are on and listen to those who have done it or continue to amuse all with your ramblings. The former course of action might get you a usable boat in 3 or 4 years' time (if you have the money and the staying power), the latter - who knows where it will lead?

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

While all those bits and bobs add up they are fleabites compared with the huge unavoidable costs which you can't cover with bits left over in the back of your shed. You might save £50 worth of ply for your free bulkhead, but do you have enough free bits to build all the furniture inside the boat? or are you going to sit at a picnic table on camp chairs and sleep in hammocks. Don't forget you may well want boring things like electricity throughout and a good instant supply of hot and cold running water, then somewhere to go to the loo and store your waste before discharging it safely. All this after you have paid for and installed controllable motive power from your rig and engine.

I really am genuinely interested in why you think you can do all this in the time you plan when NOBODY else has ever managed it, when you admit you have never done any GRP work and have never built a boat before. You really seem to have no concept of what is involved, and dare I say it dodge the question whenever it is raised with a load of waffle about your special skills, tools etc none of which seem in the least bit relevant to boat building of the type you are undertaking.

There is nothing magic about building a boat from a bare hull and deck - the hard bit of designing it and creating the boat shaped void is done for you. There are tried and tested ways of filling that void which are well within the capability of a reasonably handy person. There is no need to deviate significantly from those tried and tested ways - in fact the opposite as the failures invariably come from either totally underestimating the task (as you seem to be) or thinking you know better than the "experts".

So, you have a choice. Either you come down from whatever cloud you are on and listen to those who have done it or continue to amuse all with your ramblings. The former course of action might get you a usable boat in 3 or 4 years' time (if you have the money and the staying power), the latter - who knows where it will lead?

Dude, I do not disagree in principle with the concept you’re presenting, I said it may times and I will say it again for your benefit.
What you are saying makes sense for the AVERAGE of amateur boat builders. Not for every case.
Rest easy no need to bust a pipe on a difference of opinion. But you also tremendously mistake intentions.
An example as a peace offering, I came here to seek any morsel or info or grain of thought that would improve my timeframe with imparted knowledge, perhaps even an academic discussion on the merits of this method v that method.
You’re not actually contributing to that process by telling me it’s impossible and that I’m going to take years doing it.
On the other hand, here’s a problem: you declare yourself an expert, I finish the boat on the time I said and even within my budget. How expertly are you going to look?
(this is the time to pause and think before you type “it’s impossible”)
It’s not a Super yacht, and I have built wooden boats. I told you on the beginning that I have a lot of very highly capable colleagues and friends for every aspect of the boat. I’ve been preparing to build one for the last 2 years. You’re really not taking anything I say into account except your own opinion.
Which is actually kind of sad, because instead of this semantics you could actually help at least bouncing some ideas. It seems you’re completely closed off to anything besides what you declare it to be. While I’m talking to you, my dear brother is smiling and designing all the cable layout for the boat.. Pulpit, stern arch and bathing platform are being CAD’ed for laser and bending by someone else. Mattresses and fabrics are chosen by the wife ( she’s a very efficient German Lady ) , Stove is on standby. A mechanic friend is on hand for anything engine related. And Oddity will be sailing to Portugal in December after some shakedowns around the UK.
You are going to be disappointed by your own opinions only because you’re not actually listening to me, or what I ask, you’re trying to tell me what I don’t actually have any use for and not what I need.
Even the curtains are chosen. (the wife off course, what else…)

 

[fredrussell]

Re: Update!

Ye gads, this thread has become tedious.

OP: I’m going to do this.
Group A: Impossible!
Group B: Good luck with it.
...and repeat

Seriously, can we just draw a line under whether or not it’s possible/wise/economically viable and let the fella get on with it?

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Ye gads, this thread has become tedious.

OP: I’m going to do this.
Group A: Impossible!
Group B: Good luck with it.
...and repeat

Seriously, can we just draw a line under whether or not it’s possible/wise/economically viable and let the fella get on with it?

Yeha I was just thinking the same. It's not like this post are helping in anyway, possible or not possible I did really not come here to discuss the sex of angels.

on to Winches.
What’s a good winch why and what brand? appreciate some opinions.
How many and what sizes are best or advisable for a 33 sloop, I must admit to my shame that the winches have been largely absent from our plans.
We’re having everything led to the cockpit and winches will be mounted … somewhere. not really sure yet.

 

[Concerto]

Re: Update!

Winches.

All of the brands will do the job. My preference is Lewmar self tailing, yes for all of them. Genoa I would suggest 46 or 48. For halyards use 40. These are oversize, but do make like a lot easier and less hard work.