Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

I am listening. What I hear is mostly inconsequential dreaming rather than concrete ideas on which one can comment. So far you have just claimed you are going to do things differently - as if nobody has ever thought of that before. Despite what you think I am not expressing opinion, but giving you the benefit of 40 years experience connected with the marine business, which if you bother to look is consistent with the majority of experienced posters on this thread.

What you write about here in having people help you is nothing new or different - almost everybody who builds boats does exactly the same. Nothing new in CAD for designing steelwork, nor having a wife doing the upholstery or a mate that can help out installing the engine (just hope he knows what he is doing as it is not as simple as it looks). Still does not change the hours required to put it into practice and build the boat. Like you I had the electrical system for a boat I refitted designed by professionals so I knew what gear did what and how to fit it. Still took me a week to install in a simple 26', though.

This is the issue you are simply not addressing and you will only discover how wrong you are when you start to actually do things and you discover it is very different from what you imagined. For example, have you checked that your "free" bulkhead can actually be attached to the hull satisfactorily with GRP tabbings - given you (nor anybody else seemingly) has ever done it and you have no experience of GRP work

Glad winches have raised their ugly heads. Hope you have your application ready for a mortgage to pay for them if buying new. Don't think its easy to buy used - few people sell off functioning winches, and no, in general old ones can't be converted to self tailing. You may be lucky and get some old non ST worn out winches with a few years life in them, but you will quickly realise why many people bite the bullet and buy new. Again, been through exactly this process and for a few years lived with somebody's cast offs (cos I had no money) until I could afford new bronze STs.

So, I love your line that so far winches have been absent from your plans. Might I suggest this is just symptomatic of your lack of appreciation of what you have taken on. You are going to receive many more such "surprises" as you get further into this project in the same way as everybody else who takes on a one off build.

oh, I’m sure a few surprises are hiding in plain sight... patiently waiting for that elusive moment when I’m feeling accomplished, so that I can tear it all down and start again.
The winches, it a thing, a beast of its own, they have not been forgotten, I just refused to look at them so as to not get light headed with the searing flash of white pain my brain will receive upon my eyes focusing on the price. I guess I’m just going to have to force myself into looking at price lists.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Greg,

I'm trying to follow this thread but tbh I'm struggling...

In Dec 2011 I started work on rebuilding a ply on iroko frame 43ft motorboat (over in the mobo section of this forum). Back then I argued I'm going to have it back in the water for the summer and initially many joked/laughed and commented on that. Turned out that I didn't even have a sound enough hull (which looks like you do have!) and took me 4yrs to float her again.
Was it a lot of work? It definitely was, and I did have a lot of the kit needed (although I took most apart, checked/cleaned/refurbished/refitted). Was it worth it, you bet (on many aspects).
During the whole process other than some friendly joking about my management skills and optimism, the thread run v. smoothly, everyone was really helpful and I'm grateful for that.

I'm pretty sure once you stop focusing on delivery day, special intragalactic secret tools and costs, and START REPORTING on the work done, things are going to run v.smoothly.
That is assuming the point of the thread is to pick up the brains of the more experienced and as a return give them back an entertaining thread to follow. TBH, I'm still confused if the above statement is true and that's the aim of this thread...

Sincerely hope it does turn this way, else its really pointless and personally wont bother visiting. You have a challenging and interesting project in front of you, personally wouldn't care less if it takes you 1 or 2 yrs to complete, if you're happy and keep on working. But OTOH, reading all sorts of comments from guys that do offer their vast knowledge on an open forum doesn't help anyone may eventually piss them off and either stop trying to help you (when you actually need some real help) or stop posting on PBO (which will be a loss to all)!

So can we have some design/building action and stop the confrontations please?

cheers

V.

Yeah, sadly I know exactly what you mean. I must admit my patience leaves something to be desired when I get bombarded by “helpful” “save me “at any cost against my best wishes.
I’m doing this with a friend in full time mode. Meaning that if I were to do it as a weekend project the timeframe should be the same as yours.
This forum is something I have read for years and the information and help you can get from most forum members is something to be treasured.
Having said that. There is a fine limit between helpful and disrupting. As I do this as a “full time” job I don’t really have the time to waste on vacuous discussions on why I cannot do what I have already done. And even upon my engaging and politely trying to present a different view. It seems some are simply intent on hijacking the thread, that I use as a source of information on a relatively short time frame and turn it into a discussion on the quality of the “expertise” for which I absolutely and utterly loose interest and respect.
But I hear YOU. I’m going to keep on posting my progress and asking for help with specific problems that may arise and leave the “ethereal “discussions to anchor threads.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Re: Update!

Just go ahead and do it YOUR way!

When I first made a shaft tube out of PVC drain pipe covered in fibreglass I lost count of how many times 'experts' told me it wouldn't work. Forty years later, not one of them has ever failed.
I was always told that I couldn't align an engine without having it in place; I did it with an accurate jig and when the engine was craned in I just slid the engine down on the bed and ALL of the coupling bolts slid easily in place. (Final tweaking was done with the boat afloat, which is normal).
I used to remind my engineers that our job was to find solutions to problems, without which we would not have a job. They quickly got used to me telling them "Don't tell me WHY something cannot be done; tell me HOW it can!"... probably realising that if they were not creative enough to provide solutions I would have no further use for their services.
Do what YOU think is best; even if that does not work some times, it is still useful experience.
:encouragement:

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Just go ahead and do it YOUR way!

When I first made a shaft tube out of PVC drain pipe covered in fibreglass I lost count of how many times 'experts' told me it wouldn't work. Forty years later, not one of them has ever failed.
I was always told that I couldn't align an engine without having it in place; I did it with an accurate jig and when the engine was craned in I just slid the engine down on the bed and ALL of the coupling bolts slid easily in place. (Final tweaking was done with the boat afloat, which is normal).
I used to remind my engineers that our job was to find solutions to problems, without which we would not have a job. They quickly got used to me telling them "Don't tell me WHY something cannot be done; tell me HOW it can!"... probably realising that if they were not creative enough to provide solutions I would have no further use for their services.
Do what YOU think is best; even if that does not work some times, it is still useful experience.
:encouragement:

I'll buy you a beer next time you’re around. I've been "accused" of saying that as if it was a bad thing over and over. It seems not to find a solution is far easier then finding one.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

I am listening. What I hear is mostly inconsequential dreaming rather than concrete ideas on which one can comment. So far you have just claimed you are going to do things differently - as if nobody has ever thought of that before. Despite what you think I am not expressing opinion, but giving you the benefit of 40 years experience connected with the marine business, which if you bother to look is consistent with the majority of experienced posters on this thread.

This is the issue you are simply not addressing and you will only discover how wrong you are when you start to actually do things and you discover it is very different from what you imagined. For example, have you checked that your "free" bulkhead can actually be attached to the hull satisfactorily with GRP tabbings - given you (nor anybody else seemingly) has ever done it and you have no experience of GRP work

I will gladly take ANY advice that will HELP me do it faster, better and stronger. I never been known to refuse help.

The "free" bulkheads, had sadly dry and wet rot all around the edges, the ply was too damaged to consider a repair. Not even a shape can be taken as the edges were either crumbling or crumbled away and dissolved into mush or metamorphosed into dust. We did look into saving what could be saved but it’s a gut and do it new type of thing.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!


another thingy on the surprise List. I'm just guessing what the ply looks like inside as you can see through the holes.

I'm guessing a cut and do knew again but this time with lower holes and using fibreglass tubing to prevent moisture seep.

 

[Scotsailor]

Re: Update!

Well my Dad completed a boat from moulding in the 1980s and it was very successful. But he was a trained shipwright. However the engine he fitted was a disaster. Hardly ever worked properly. It was a British Seagull saildrive tyoe thing. Other than that all ok. So what you are doing is possible

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Well my Dad completed a boat from moulding in the 1980s and it was very successful. But he was a trained shipwright. However the engine he fitted was a disaster. Hardly ever worked properly. It was a British Seagull saildrive tyoe thing. Other than that all ok. So what you are doing is possible

It's a very rewarding thing, I'm loving it for it. Even when I'm vacuuming smelly 30-year-old sludge hiding under the engine compartment floor. The Seagull brand is a guaranteed form of good quality training in disassembling and assembling again and again. It's something that people love to hate or hate to love. In Portuguese sailing tradition your dad is a true sailor. You have to build the boat to be considered a true sailor. No other way of knowing the boat.

 

[GregOddity]

As luck goes, we just happened to find someone who bought the stock of a chandlery that went out of business and were taking a look at some winches in a couple of days. Holding my fingers crossed for a few more items as well.
On the Wheel… I’m fabricating the pedestal and mechanism for the wheel, £500 pounds for a welded pipe and a handle made of bent stainless kind of makes me squirm at the thought. Also, one of my pet hates on sailboats is engine controls to the side and in hard to reach places. (I’m sure I it works for some)
My view and personal taste is that the controls should be in a position where you can concentrate on manoeuvring without having to use your foot to kick the power lever or go around the wheel with an arm. Imagine placing the accelerator in your car on the back-seat type of thing. I really struggle with the placement in some boat models. I may be wrong and I’m sure you’re all going to tell me this is the “best” etc. But to me, if you’re motoring, you need your controls easy at hand and your attention concentrated on the manoeuvre without having to bend, twist or turn while on close quarters docking or anchoring. You bring all the sailing control to the cockpit, then distribute the power controls to various places.
And that’s todays discussion on oddity trying to figure out where wheel, power and winches will be placed without killing the entry ways to the cockpit and being able to use it in some comfort.

 

[pvb]

Re: Update!

You have to build the boat to be considered a true sailor.

Come on! That really is bollocks, even if it's supposed to be olde worlde Portuguese folklore.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Come on! That really is bollocks, even if it's supposed to be olde worlde Portuguese folklore.

?

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm disappointed in this thread. It's titled 'Update' but nothing seems to be happening apart from pointless arguments with people whose views I respect.
I'm going to come back in a month's time and see if any progress has been made.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Come on! That really is bollocks, even if it's supposed to be olde worlde Portuguese folklore.

It's the OLD Portuguese traditions and a COMMON SAYING, nothing else, I actually don't know many there are that even know how to build a boat this days, they all just use fiberglass like everyone else. My bad if I offended anyone by the way I wrote it. Not my intention. A “ Mestre” (master) had to take part on the build to be considered a “true” and capable sailor that knew all the ins and outs of the vessel to be able to handle any situation or repairs at sea. It’s an Old thing .. but trust me when I say I have heard worse comments in the UK about anything not UK’ish and no one takes offense because none is meant. It’s just a thing.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: Update!

I may have missed it, but have you got a mast, standing and running rigging?

 

[Scotsailor]

Re: Update!

Might be worth looking at what Roger Taylor did when re building an Achilles 24 … he made a junk rig himself I believe and used a lamp post as the mast.

 

[lpdsn]

Re: Update!

Might be worth looking at what Roger Taylor did when re building an Achilles 24 … he made a junk rig himself I believe and used a lamp post as the mast.

One way to get a decent deck light.

 

[pvb]

Re: Update!

One way to get a decent deck light.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Re: Update!

Much of this thread has become tedious, i'm sure many can't be bothered reading it all any more.

I'd suggest that any new questions, such as the winch one, be the subject of a new thread.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: HULL NUMBER FOUND !

What to do in a very HOT day? Well go into a fiberglass boat without any form of insulation on a day without a breeze.
And it is so that we scoured the hull with high powered torch lights inside and out, going over every little nook and cranny of the hull inside. On the outside I had looked at the transom quite a few times and found nothing. Having said that and knowing that Colvic produced hulls have a number we decided to wash to transom with lemon juice and leave it till today before we washed it again. This morning we jet washed and scrubbed it again and left it to dry and went looking on the inside. When we were about to leave I remembered the washed and rewashed transom and decided to take a new look as I was descending the ladder… and there just in front of my eyes was this TINY little number on the hull. 30 years of rain and dust really did a number on the number.
We went out for a well-deserved dinner with our mission accomplished.
Thanks again for all the tips, that was a hard one.

 

[Tranona]

As luck goes, we just happened to find someone who bought the stock of a chandlery that went out of business and were taking a look at some winches in a couple of days. Holding my fingers crossed for a few more items as well.
On the Wheel… I’m fabricating the pedestal and mechanism for the wheel, £500 pounds for a welded pipe and a handle made of bent stainless kind of makes me squirm at the thought. Also, one of my pet hates on sailboats is engine controls to the side and in hard to reach places. (I’m sure I it works for some)
My view and personal taste is that the controls should be in a position where you can concentrate on manoeuvring without having to use your foot to kick the power lever or go around the wheel with an arm. Imagine placing the accelerator in your car on the back-seat type of thing. I really struggle with the placement in some boat models. I may be wrong and I’m sure you’re all going to tell me this is the “best” etc. But to me, if you’re motoring, you need your controls easy at hand and your attention concentrated on the manoeuvre without having to bend, twist or turn while on close quarters docking or anchoring. You bring all the sailing control to the cockpit, then distribute the power controls to various places.
And that’s todays discussion on oddity trying to figure out where wheel, power and winches will be placed without killing the entry ways to the cockpit and being able to use it in some comfort.

Now this really takes the biscuit! There is absolutely nothing new in what you say. Boats have been built exactly like this for years. My last boat (much bigger than yours) was built in 2001 and had a pedestal with all the instruments on it and engine controls on the side, all the sail controls led back to the cockpit and sheet winches easily accessible from behind the wheel. All logical, straightforward and easy to handle single handed. My current boat is the same but even better ergonomics.

So to echo pvb you are talking b******s. You have clearly never spent any time looking at existing boats and instead are seeing problems that don't exist and having a rant. You do not need to reinvent anything - just open your eyes to what is around you and pick what will suit your application. There is no need to reinvent pedestals. You can either buy a generic Lewmar setup, but this is rather old fashioned (but does have a side mounted engine control) or do what many builders do now and that is build a GRP moulding with a built in framework for a grab bar, mounting the steering gear and space to mount instruments. You will find example on many current production boats such as Bavarias and Hanses - the single wheel models are most relevant. This type of design is easily replicated by a home builder.

As to bringing the sail controls back to the cockpit, again this is pretty standard practice and all the gear is readily available from a number of suppliers such as Barton, Spinlock, Selden, Rutgerson, Harken etc - choice dependent on depths of your pocket - which will have to be deep whichever brand you choose.

You do have a problem in some ways as your boat was designed long before any of this stuff was the norm so you may not find it easy to fit and achieve the level of sophistication you see on modern production boats. Before rushing in much of what you do in this area is dependent on the rig you choose, so perhaps best to settle on this first. You need some basic questions answered, for example, in mast furling or slab reefing, fully battened sails or sail slides, single headsail or cutter rigged, furling headsail or hanked on. Until you know this you can't design sail handling gear and specify equipment - nor even choose your winches, no matter how good a deal you might be offered as it will only be a good deal if compatible with your rig!