Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[Tranona]

Re: Update!

Matrix Composites sells some stuff that I like, still looking for a few more dont mind trying new stuff.



I have heard from the amine blush problem on moist environments, not something I can discount on account on how we are doing the boat. I think it can be solved with peel ply or hard grinded with diamond dicks but involves a bit of rubber grinding to de clog the disc. I rather avoid it if I can. Good point.

Amine blush is only really an issue if you are using the epoxy as a coating and then painting over and can be overcome by using peel ply. however, don't see the need for any epoxy coating in the sort of fitting out you are doing. Epoxy is useful in doing repairs on fully cured GRP when it is difficult to prep the old to ensure good adhesion of new polyester. However you are not in that position as although the hull is fully cured you should be able to grind back sufficiently to get a good key for tabbing in your new timber and ply. No need to coat ply internally with epoxy (or indeed in my view externally either) - conventional paints are more than adequate. Coating with epoxy has its place, particularly in construction methods like strip planking and cold moulding, but you are not doing either of these.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

If that happens think of it less as a lost boat and more the start of a boat disposal business venture.

I believe it does take a while for the water molecules to migrate to the surface when drying a hull, so a quick suck won't solve the problem first go.

The water molecules will have reacted with uncured residue in the hull and became something akin to a slurry. They don’t really migrate. The vacuum that I’m going to use is only going to work when used in conjunction with heat that will lower the boiling point (due to the high pressure) to around 55 degrees with the amount of vacuum being applied. The vacuum has a twofold action, first to lower the boiling point, then as soon as any fluids trapped are vaporised and expand, they will then be sucked out by the vacuum. It’s almost near impossible to dry out a hull by any other means.
As for boat removal, I’m pretty sure that at some stage I ‘ll give it some thought while looking at my beautiful boat. As every owner does …at times..

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Amine blush is only really an issue if you are using the epoxy as a coating and then painting over and can be overcome by using peel ply. however, don't see the need for any epoxy coating in the sort of fitting out you are doing. Epoxy is useful in doing repairs on fully cured GRP when it is difficult to prep the old to ensure good adhesion of new polyester. However you are not in that position as although the hull is fully cured you should be able to grind back sufficiently to get a good key for tabbing in your new timber and ply. No need to coat ply internally with epoxy (or indeed in my view externally either) - conventional paints are more than adequate. Coating with epoxy has its place, particularly in construction methods like strip planking and cold moulding, but you are not doing either of these.

I cannot fault your reasoning. I have considered what you are saying as a the base of what we intend to do.
We have however not yet decided on the materials to use. Since we are in the XXI century and as the Portuguese saying goes, “tradition is dead, Long live tradition.”
The reason I am not building a wooden boat is because I rather sail then be a carpenter. Having said that, being a “plastic “boat I’m tempted to avoid any wood as much as possible, as they are one of the headaches to deal with. There are a number of alternatives we are exploring now. There’s a bulkhead on the wall of the chain locker that is made of ply and that will be the first to go the way of the Dodo. I’m even considering replacing the other with more modern and better performing materials. Not in the way of trying to give the boat a racing chance. Oddity will not win any races with all that beam. But in the sense that the bulkheads made with ply come with a set of issues I wish to avoid and also prevent me from doing a water tight door.

 

[Keith 66]

Re: Update!

I would not contemplate using epoxy from whatever manufacturer, the cost will be way too high, I thought you had a budget of 20k? If you sand the Polyester interior surface clean with a 36 - 40 grit angle grinder disc you wil get a perfectly good bond with polyester. The trick is to make sure where you are bonding is dry & is warm enough. If you are really worried about bond strength use vinylester resin, its kind of halfway between polyester & epoxy in properties & easier to use than epoxy. Using epoxy on a fit out job like this is simply overkill & will ensure your budget goes out the window. East coast fibreglass are an excellent company to deal with.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

I would not contemplate using epoxy from whatever manufacturer, the cost will be way too high, I thought you had a budget of 20k? If you sand the Polyester interior surface clean with a 36 - 40 grit angle grinder disc you wil get a perfectly good bond with polyester. The trick is to make sure where you are bonding is dry & is warm enough. If you are really worried about bond strength use vinylester resin, its kind of halfway between polyester & epoxy in properties & easier to use than epoxy. Using epoxy on a fit out job like this is simply overkill & will ensure your budget goes out the window. East coast fibreglass are an excellent company to deal with.

Now THAT is exactly where I’m at right now. Our thinking is that we will grind the hull with a diamond disc somewhere between a 40 to 50 finish starting a 20 for a light passage on the rougher areas. I don’t feel the need to recoat the interior and will use modern paints to coat the inside once finished and before any fittings (except any structural areas where bonding is required). Resins are a bit more tricky then the rest of the materials.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Update!

I cannot fault your reasoning. I have considered what you are saying as a the base of what we intend to do.
We have however not yet decided on the materials to use. Since we are in the XXI century and as the Portuguese saying goes, “tradition is dead, Long live tradition.”
The reason I am not building a wooden boat is because I rather sail then be a carpenter. Having said that, being a “plastic “boat I’m tempted to avoid any wood as much as possible, as they are one of the headaches to deal with. There are a number of alternatives we are exploring now. There’s a bulkhead on the wall of the chain locker that is made of ply and that will be the first to go the way of the Dodo. I’m even considering replacing the other with more modern and better performing materials. Not in the way of trying to give the boat a racing chance. Oddity will not win any races with all that beam. But in the sense that the bulkheads made with ply come with a set of issues I wish to avoid and also prevent me from doing a water tight door.

Ply is used almost universally for bulkheads and is more than adequate both structurally and for longevity if done properly. You can build a watertight bulkhead using ply, but you may find the downsides of such a thing in a small (in this context) boat like this outweigh any perceived benefits. Not least its impact on your budget. If you are worried about (extremely rare) damage to the bow area that might sink the boat, then do what many builders do and reinforce the forward part of the hull with Kevlar.

This is the 21stC - and boats are still built using ply bulkheads bonded in with polyester resin. The alternative used where weight savings out weigh cost considerations is foam cored ply, but the principles are still the same.

You are building what is known around here as a "brick outhouse" boat. Stick to the well established principles of building such a boat and do it well.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Ply is used almost universally for bulkheads and is more than adequate both structurally and for longevity if done properly. You can build a watertight bulkhead using ply, but you may find the downsides of such a thing in a small (in this context) boat like this outweigh any perceived benefits. Not least its impact on your budget. If you are worried about (extremely rare) damage to the bow area that might sink the boat, then do what many builders do and reinforce the forward part of the hull with Kevlar.

This is the 21stC - and boats are still built using ply bulkheads bonded in with polyester resin. The alternative used where weight savings out weigh cost considerations is foam cored ply, but the principles are still the same.

You are building what is known around here as a "brick outhouse" boat. Stick to the well established principles of building such a boat and do it well.

Tranona that is very good advice. And yes, it can be seen as a brick outhouse. But when refitting a boat, one also has to take account of skills, tooling, materials and various other resources. My budget is tight. VERY, I’m painfully aware of that. Yet, I do come well tooled and with a bit of expertise on most (except fiberglass) issues that were facing. And some rests of exotic materials that are filling my sheds to the rafters. Bits of this bits of that. Some Kevlar, some carbon fibre, pipes, taps lights and cables galore (LED) data cable drums high quality and a complete shed load of other stuff like bits of Kevlar and aluminium honeycomb. All that is going to find some interesting use in the boat. I think if I have to buy any screw for the boat, then it must be a wood screw. Got cans of 316 stainless of every size that accumulated in jars over the years.

 

[Iain C]

Re: Update!

One consideration...lots of the manuals say don't tab bulkheads directly to the hull, leave a gap for foam, although this is more relevant on a more lightly built racier boat. Your boat has sat ashore for years, you've say you've ripped a load of bulkheads and windows out, and she's never seen any rig loads. So you may well find that her shape changes when (...if) you launch her. I'd be particularly careful around where props/pads are, as the hull may have deformed visibly inwards at those points. She may have settled a bit on her keel too compared to the intended shape. You don't want to go to all that effort and then find that everything is under lots of strain and trying to detach itself structurally before you see a puff of wind or a ripple on the sea. I've not actually watched any of your vids properly, but I'd certainly be removing and replacing one bulkhead at a time, and even if some of it isn't much cop, it's a lot easier to use the old stuff as a template than start from scratch. There's a very good rule when it comes to repairing boats/cars etc. Don't throw ANYTHING away until the replacement part is satisfactorily in place.

 

[pandos]

Re: Update!

One consideration...lots of the manuals say don't tab bulkheads directly to the hull, leave a gap for foam, although this is more relevant on a more lightly built racier boat. Your boat has sat ashore for years, you've say you've ripped a load of bulkheads and windows out, and she's never seen any rig loads. So you may well find that her shape changes when (...if) you launch her. I'd be particularly careful around where props/pads are, as the hull may have deformed visibly inwards at those points. She may have settled a bit on her keel too compared to the intended shape. You don't want to go to all that effort and then find that everything is under lots of strain and trying to detach itself structurally before you see a puff of wind or a ripple on the sea. I've not actually watched any of your vids properly, but I'd certainly be removing and replacing one bulkhead at a time, and even if some of it isn't much cop, it's a lot easier to use the old stuff as a template than start from scratch. There's a very good rule when it comes to repairing boats/cars etc. Don't throw ANYTHING away until the replacement part is satisfactorily in place.

Told them some of that already, post ignored,

Seems these guys are using this project to reinvent the wheel, references to tight budget but then brand new inflatable and engine etc top of the range tools etc...

More likely this is a commercial venture aimed at monetising the exposure here and on youtube, all too slick computer wise but with constant references to doing things to boat in daft ways....

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

One consideration...lots of the manuals say don't tab bulkheads directly to the hull, leave a gap for foam, although this is more relevant on a more lightly built racier boat. Your boat has sat ashore for years, you've say you've ripped a load of bulkheads and windows out, and she's never seen any rig loads. So you may well find that her shape changes when (...if) you launch her. I'd be particularly careful around where props/pads are, as the hull may have deformed visibly inwards at those points. She may have settled a bit on her keel too compared to the intended shape. You don't want to go to all that effort and then find that everything is under lots of strain and trying to detach itself structurally before you see a puff of wind or a ripple on the sea. I've not actually watched any of your vids properly, but I'd certainly be removing and replacing one bulkhead at a time, and even if some of it isn't much cop, it's a lot easier to use the old stuff as a template than start from scratch. There's a very good rule when it comes to repairing boats/cars etc. Don't throw ANYTHING away until the replacement part is satisfactorily in place.

It’s a good point. The only problem being that all the bullheads have gone to mush around the outside loosing structural strength. Not a single one was in order. The hull seems to have kept its shape and there are no distortions to be seen, but it’s also one of the reasons why we are going for a survey at this stage. We are off course keeping everything that goes against the hull, sadly that’s where most of the ply went south. While most of it still holds itself to shape, the edges of contact are just unusable.

 

[chrishscorp]

Re: Update!

Its a Polyester boat, I would therefore use polyester to go onto the hull for extra strength you can put in woven glass into the CSM

Before you grind anything CLEAN the areas you are going to grind, you do not want to grind contamination into the matrix, then wipe down the relevant work areas with acetone prior to starting work

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Told them some of that already, post ignored,

Seems these guys are using this project to reinvent the wheel, references to tight budget but then brand new inflatable and engine etc top of the range tools etc...

More likely this is a commercial venture aimed at monetising the exposure here and on youtube, all too slick computer wise but with constant references to doing things to boat in daft ways....

My "top of the Range Tools " are very shiny and new. Some are still very shiny and new after 10 years. And if I see them not shiny and new, I clean them and care of them 'cause I work for myself and my tools put food on my table. Maybe it's my German way of thinking, Use the tool, clean the tool. (alien Concept for some) As to the "commercial" venture and doing things to boats in daft ways... Maybe I should start listening when I get told to peel a hull and let it air dry.
Maybe I should have listened to: “sell the hull on eBay again, you will never finish, waste of time, buy a sailable one and go sailing” yada yada yada. You will finish in 3075 AD or before the Earth is engulfed by an ever expanding coronal ejection at the final stages of the transformation of the sun.
Not one has asked, do you know what you are doing? Have you got any knowledge of boatbuilding?
And yet, you seem to assume that because I want to do things in a different way then the one you use… I need to be saved from myself?
I need no saving. I do not need anyone to burn my body to save my soul. I am going to do it the way I WANT to do it, If I come into difficulties I will solve them so that I can do it the way I want. Within my budget as much as I can. Within my ways, expertise, knowledge and tooling.
Saying that it is DAFT to want to move with the times and use moderns materials as much as I can.. well seems DAFT to me. Loads of companies sell production rests and a very good price. Maybe I need to throw all the bits I accumulated of carbon fibre and use a 2x4 instead.
This is a wonderful project for me to just run wild with the tooling I have and the DREAM that is mine. Maybe it will sink on splashing, but it IS my dream.
You are going to be MORTIFIED when you see some of the things I am going to do to that boat!
The BAD news is, it’s not going to be for sale after. So, you can’t have it. It’s is MINE.

The advice I am looking for starts like this; I want to build a water maker with off the shelf parts for around 30/50 gallons an hour, have you got any knowledge I can use? Are you willing to help/ assist?
The advice I DO NOT NEED / WANT or have absolutely no use for: “ too much time, you can’t do it, you will never finish it, buy one instead and save your self the time and go sailing. It will never work, you will have loads of problems, save your self the hassle, it’s a daft idea, etc etc.
PS- after writing all of this my operational status was lowered from slightly peeved to miffed.
PPS- We could not seem to find any leaky Avons and Seagull engine for sale.. so we had to go with a LUXURY combo of a Zodiac / Mariner.. what was I thinking…

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

Its a Polyester boat, I would therefore use polyester to go onto the hull for extra strength you can put in woven glass into the CSM

Before you grind anything CLEAN the areas you are going to grind, you do not want to grind contamination into the matrix, then wipe down the relevant work areas with acetone prior to starting work

I was actually wondering which solvent I could use safely, there are some old cans of impossible to tell resins that lost their contents and I’m going to have to clean that proper before I do anything.

 

[lpdsn]

Re: Update!

My "top of the Range Tools " are very shiny and new. Some are still very shiny and new after 10 years. And if I see them not shiny and new, I clean them and care of them 'cause I work for myself and my tools put food on my table. Maybe it's my German way of thinking, Use the tool, clean the tool. (alien Concept for some) As to the "commercial" venture and doing things to boats in daft ways... Maybe I should start listening when I get told to peel a hull and let it air dry.
Maybe I should have listened to: “sell the hull on eBay again, you will never finish, waste of time, buy a sailable one and go sailing” yada yada yada. You will finish in 3075 AD or before the Earth is engulfed by an ever expanding coronal ejection at the final stages of the transformation of the sun.
Not one has asked, do you know what you are doing? Have you got any knowledge of boatbuilding?
And yet, you seem to assume that because I want to do things in a different way then the one you use… I need to be saved from myself?
I need no saving. I do not need anyone to burn my body to save my soul. I am going to do it the way I WANT to do it, If I come into difficulties I will solve them so that I can do it the way I want. Within my budget as much as I can. Within my ways, expertise, knowledge and tooling.
Saying that it is DAFT to want to move with the times and use moderns materials as much as I can.. well seems DAFT to me. Loads of companies sell production rests and a very good price. Maybe I need to throw all the bits I accumulated of carbon fibre and use a 2x4 instead.
This is a wonderful project for me to just run wild with the tooling I have and the DREAM that is mine. Maybe it will sink on splashing, but it IS my dream.
You are going to be MORTIFIED when you see some of the things I am going to do to that boat!
The BAD news is, it’s not going to be for sale after. So, you can’t have it. It’s is MINE.

The advice I am looking for starts like this; I want to build a water maker with off the shelf parts for around 30/50 gallons an hour, have you got any knowledge I can use? Are you willing to help/ assist?
The advice I DO NOT NEED / WANT or have absolutely no use for: “ too much time, you can’t do it, you will never finish it, buy one instead and save your self the time and go sailing. It will never work, you will have loads of problems, save your self the hassle, it’s a daft idea, etc etc.
PS- after writing all of this my operational status was lowered from slightly peeved to miffed.
PPS- We could not seem to find any leaky Avons and Seagull engine for sale.. so we had to go with a LUXURY combo of a Zodiac / Mariner.. what was I thinking…

My money is still on the 'never finish' option but I'm willing to be proved wrong, so keep going.

And if you are genuinely trying to monetarise the project go on Sailing Anarchy. You'll get much more publicity but will get rather more abuse.

 

[Wansworth]

Re: Update!

We are neighbors so I might get ideas to modify aMacwester into a wheelhouse motor sailor.....keep up the good work!

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

My money is still on the 'never finish' option but I'm willing to be proved wrong, so keep going.

And if you are genuinely trying to monetarise the project go on Sailing Anarchy. You'll get much more publicity but will get rather more abuse.

In the last few days I have been told more times then I care to remember to monetise the project, I really just want to make a sailboat and have loads of fun with a project where I can do no matter what and still be happy. It's not like I can do that when building a RT GPS system with minimal tolerances that drive you mad. I really just made the first video for my wife and friends, the pancakes for Phils colleagues that are envious of the weight he has lost with the "eat like a King Diet he is on". I rather like not having to be serious and having fun as opposed to being professional and serious.

At the moment I'll give you 10/1 on me finishing (but hey it's still early stages) but I'll make you a deal. One Beer if I finish before December at worst case and you have to be there for splashing. Alternatively, you can dress as Neptune and raise from the water to bless the Vessel when we baptise her.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Update!

We are neighbors so I might get ideas to modify aMacwester into a wheelhouse motor sailor.....keep up the good work!

hehe Am I leading you astray?

 

[lpdsn]

Re: Update!

At the moment I'll give you 10/1 on me finishing (but hey it's still early stages) but I'll make you a deal. One Beer if I finish before December at worst case and you have to be there for splashing. Alternatively, you can dress as Neptune and raise from the water to bless the Vessel when we baptise her.

Too far for me to travel. But do it and post the video and I'll congratulate you and say I was wrong. It'll be some achievement.

Plus in December you'd need Neptune in a survival suit.

 

[pvb]

Re: Update!

One Beer if I finish before December at worst case ...

You're going to need to spend some seriously long days to achieve that timetable. Don't you have a job to occupy your time?

 

[Spyro]

Re: Update!

It’s a good point. The only problem being that all the bullheads have gone to mush around the outside loosing structural strength. Not a single one was in order. The hull seems to have kept its shape and there are no distortions to be seen, but it’s also one of the reasons why we are going for a survey at this stage. We are off course keeping everything that goes against the hull, sadly that’s where most of the ply went south. While most of it still holds itself to shape, the edges of contact are just unusable.

I'm just wondering what a survey at this stage is going to tell you? As far as I can see now it's a bare hull. There's nothing a surveyor will see that your own eyes wont. will you listen to anything a surveyor says or just do your own thing? I'm inclined to think save your money.