Boat for single-handed sailing?

[Tintin]

Thank you folks. I am so glad that I started to get some answers to my question, rather than solely people telling me why I should have a tiller. (I DON'T like them- geddit?????)

Oooohhhhhh!!!!

 

[[165264]]

Hello- I assume you are talking about the 9.7?? Or is it the 34ft? Thanks

 

[Tranona]

Hello- I assume you are talking about the 9.7?? Or is it the 34ft? Thanks

I assume you are asking me. It would be helpful if you use the "Reply With Quote" function as it avoids misunderstanding and ensure your question is linked to what you want to know or respond to.

Anyway if it is the Bavaria 33 family there have been several models based on the same basic hull. The first was called a 32 from 2009 to 2012, but not a sales success. Revamped for 2013 as the 33 with huge improvements all round. An economy model Easy 9.7 introduced around the same time only to prove (again) there is no market for a stripped out new boat of this size. For 2016 rebranded as 34 with option of twin wheels and 2 aft cabins, mainly for the charter market. The "standard" 33 (like mine and the one for sale) has been far and away the most popular in the UK.

 

[photodog]

Is that the one you don't use that often. Sorry couldn't resist

Useing it more recently.... but on my own it’s a non starter and recently we have not had a lack of wind!

So I’m keen to get a furler.... plus adjustable Genoa cars, and a new backstay adjustor which would be useable, instead of the crappy 4.1 one o have now... and a new mainsheet with a fine adjust... I had lined up a folding prop, then the existing one split and the factories on holiday. So it’s a new normal one going on which is eating up half the budget for a folder...

I’m keen to get the sail handling all upgraded to make her a bit more fun and fast... got me a nice new main last year.

 

[photodog]

I assume you are asking me. It would be helpful if you use the "Reply With Quote" function as it avoids misunderstanding and ensure your question is linked to what you want to know or respond to.

Anyway if it is the Bavaria 33 family there have been several models based on the same basic hull. The first was called a 32 from 2009 to 2012, but not a sales success. Revamped for 2013 as the 33 with huge improvements all round. An economy model Easy 9.7 introduced around the same time only to prove (again) there is no market for a stripped out new boat of this size. For 2016 rebranded as 34 with option of twin wheels and 2 aft cabins, mainly for the charter market. The "standard" 33 (like mine and the one for sale) has been far and away the most popular in the UK.

I like the looks of that... I see you can move the Genoa winches back to the more traditional spot... is that mainsheet manageable easily that far forward???

Mines actually on the binnacle...

 

[Hadenough]

You will probably find a tiller far easier to use than a wheel when the s#@t hits the fan solo.

Far easier to put it between your legs to steer leaving both hands free for lines and sheets. It also allows you to have a back up autopilot at a cheaper cost - losing your autopilot (mechanical failure) and having to hand steer for hours when solo is very tiring.

Absolute rubbish. Over the past few weeks in south Britany I have been watching the antics of tiller steered boats with engine controls buried somewhere deep in the cockpit and have come to the conclusion that most tiller steered yachts are not fit for purpose in tight quarters. Fine for sailing out in open water but definitely not in close quarters. Add a single hander into the equation and I understand why my insurance premium is so much.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Absolute rubbish.

Would you mind terribly if I borrowed that phrase? It could serve admirably as a substitute for "You're talking out of your... er, hat?"

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I like the looks of that... I see you can move the Genoa winches back to the more traditional spot... is that mainsheet manageable easily that far forward???

Mines actually on the binnacle...

That really was a bit off putting on your boat I was always wondering when the binnacle was going to get pulled out of the deck. and it didn't give much control of the main.
Do you think it could be modified at all.

 

[photodog]

That really was a bit off putting on your boat I was always wondering when the binnacle was going to get pulled out of the deck. and it didn't give much control of the main.
Do you think it could be modified at all.

Well, it’s off outputting at first... but it’s actually better than it seems... if you use the kicker in conjunction its easy to keep the main flat... th problem is that it’s mounted quite high.. so when we are powered up and close hauled and well over, it can be a bit disconcerting to adjust ... I would rather it lower.

I think we could put in a small traveller... between the seats... but I doubt it would improve performance. And then it would obstruct my drink holder...:nonchalance:

So yeah, Not ideal, but not as bad as it first seems...

Rather there than some crappy coach roof job where you get zero control..

 

[Tranona]

I like the looks of that... I see you can move the Genoa winches back to the more traditional spot... is that mainsheet manageable easily that far forward???

Mines actually on the binnacle...

The mainsheet is at the forward end of the cockpit table but fixed. Not ideal, although you soon get used to leading the tail aft to the helm. Like yours infinitely better than the coachroof mounted type on my 37. Although having said that the 37 was much less sensitive to mainsheet control because the main was much smaller in relation to the genoa so needed less adjustment. I led the tail back to the helm with a cleat on the coaming so had some control.

On the 33 there are positions for two sets of sheet winches. The forward ones are standard and I had the aft ones fitted as an option. Use these for the jib and the chute sheets are led through a block on a strop looped round the mooring cleats forward to the forward pair of winches. Works well.

 

[[165264]]

I assume you are asking me. It would be helpful if you use the "Reply With Quote" function as it avoids misunderstanding and ensure your question is linked to what you want to know or respond to.

Anyway if it is the Bavaria 33 family there have been several models based on the same basic hull. The first was called a 32 from 2009 to 2012, but not a sales success. Revamped for 2013 as the 33 with huge improvements all round. An economy model Easy 9.7 introduced around the same time only to prove (again) there is no market for a stripped out new boat of this size. For 2016 rebranded as 34 with option of twin wheels and 2 aft cabins, mainly for the charter market. The "standard" 33 (like mine and the one for sale) has been far and away the most popular in the UK.

Thanks.

 

[[165264]]

Oooohhhhhh!!!!

Indeed- one starts a thread asking about a boat for single handed use and mentions in passing that it has to have a wheel, and then one gets replies; not about the boat, but why one should have a tiller. Not helpful. (But a common feature on internet fora.)

 

[[165264]]

I would suggest it's not the sailing which presents challenges but the berthing if looking to single hand. We have had a self tacker and find it really useful and if worried about sail area look for the smallest with double headsails. I agree that mainsheet out of cockpit is a big plus but would suggest avoiding one in front of sprayhood so maybe a double sheet system or German mainsheet system. If cabin clearance is important that might be dictate choices if looking in the 345 size range? A lot might also depend on activities proposed e.g. Going down creeks or whatever ?

Creeks? Well none less than 2m, which I suppose might include the Medina and low water.

 

[[165264]]

Hi, I had a similar set of requirements five years ago when we bought plus I was constrained by my mooring to bilge or lifting keel. I am 6 4 so banging the old swede was a major consideration.

There was a very long list of potential boat's so we went on a family sailing holiday on a Bavaria 32 in Greece to help figure out what was important on a boat of that size. This was really useful and confirmed a few things that helped narrow the section criteria. These were:

• banging one's head on hard things above deck is a whole lot more irritating, not to say dangerous, than bumping it gently on nice headlining below decks so a fairly high boom became more important than headroom below. You will catch it on the top of door frames unless you get a really big boat. The only place I found it to be a problem was the heads.
• a wheel is a right PITA on a boat of that size. Constantly in the way when you are not actually sailing. For a single hander, as others have said, I think it would be a real hindrance for accessing the other controls. Also, I have an inbuilt prejudice from my dinghy days that a wheel is somehow not proper if the boat is small enough for a tiller (could justify this by saying more responsive, better feel etc.)
• apart from the wheel, the boat had a clear cockpit which was good.
• simple is better. For example, I didn't like the German main sheet, barely used the more complex facilities of the chartplotter, didn't really need a widlass and, again, another tick for a tiller.
• the one or two controls that weren't accessible from the cockpit annoyed me.
• stowage will be limited so having enough space below to manoeuvre round everyone's full bags is important
• the Bavaria had a swimming platform transom which made using the dinghy, getting the outboard on and off etc. fairly easy. No need for a swimming platform in the Solent but ease of access through a sugar scoop made my list.

I ended up with a Westerly Tempest and I'm delighted with her but your budget would get more than one.

When starting solo, as others say, leaving and arriving are easily the most daunting things taking much thought and practice before you can be confident. I have a masthead rig with a large genoa. This means tacking when solo is sometimes not as slick as I'd like but is not too much of a problem unless in light winds when it has a tendency to catch on the radar. She can be a bit skittish when manoeuvring slowly in a crosswind with a tendency to weathercock quickly but otherwise handles fine under motor. Get the sails balanced properly and the autohelm does very little work when sailing (although not good at all dead downwind).

The usage was expected to be me and my mates going out for a blast, me and my wife and daughters taking the occasional overnight trip to e.g. Cowes or Chichester, capability for further afield and some solo sailing (which I hadn't done at that point). Five years later and the usage is skewed towards me going out on my own which I find I enjoy much more than I expected with trips with friends and family trips still featuring.

Nice to hear that; I like my own company, rather than that of a wife who makes it clear she would rather not be there.

 

[Tranona]

Creeks? Well none less than 2m, which I suppose might include the Medina and low water.

At the margins draught can make a difference. I chose the 1.5m (as opposed to 2m) keel because I wanted to be able to sail in the harbour in Poole. It makes a difference as I can use East Looe channel at low tide which would not be possible with the deeper draught. On Thursday night I anchored at the top of Newtown river and stayed afloat at low tide, again which would not be possible with deeper draft. Trade off is some loss of ultimate performance to windward. Another plus is the shallow keel has a longer base and makes drying out easier.

If these sort of things are not important to you hen stick with the standard keel.

 

[[165264]]

At the margins draught can make a difference. I chose the 1.5m (as opposed to 2m) keel because I wanted to be able to sail in the harbour in Poole. It makes a difference as I can use East Looe channel at low tide which would not be possible with the deeper draught. On Thursday night I anchored at the top of Newtown river and stayed afloat at low tide, again which would not be possible with deeper draft. Trade off is some loss of ultimate performance to windward. Another plus is the shallow keel has a longer base and makes drying out easier.

If these sort of things are not important to you hen stick with the standard keel.

Good points. Poole Harbour is close for me too, of course, but there seem to be much fewer in the way of shallow draft boats for sale. However, I'm not in a rush. Strikes me that mid-winter would be a good time to be looking, from a buyer's perspective.

 

[Tranona]

Don't think time of year has much influence at this end of the market. There is a real shortage of boats less than 10 years old reflecting low sales of new boats in that period and leakage to the EU because of the low value of the £. So boats of this type sell very quickly and once you start looking you will find a limited choice. New boat prices have increased 25% in the last 2 years which has also helped sales of late model used boats.

Draft would not be a deal breaker. If there was no choice then you live with the limitations, which for most people does not present problems. For me it just adds some options with a little penalty in performance - but sharp performance is not one of my priorities!

 

[Tintin]

Indeed- one starts a thread asking about a boat for single handed use and mentions in passing that it has to have a wheel, and then one gets replies; not about the boat, but why one should have a tiller. Not helpful. (But a common feature on internet fora.)

Oh dear. You're gonna be one of those forumites that want to control the place. Good luck chap.

You may also notice there was some advice about reefing and whether or not to run lines to the cockpit, but I guess those didn't chime with the pre planned answers you were after.

You come on her, asking for advice, but then have a go at those that bother to spend a few minutes of their life giving you some advice.

Here's a hint chap - learn to be a bit grateful. You'll find it helps you get on in life.

 

[Tranona]

Oh dear. You're gonna be one of those forumites that want to control the place. Good luck chap.

You may also notice there was some advice about reefing and whether or not to run lines to the cockpit, but I guess those didn't chime with the pre planned answers you were after.

You come on her, asking for advice, but then have a go at those that bother to spend a few minutes of their life giving you some advice.

Here's a hint chap - learn to be a bit grateful. You'll find it helps you get on in life.

To be fair, he stated up front that he wanted a wheel and the boats he is looking at do not come with a tiller.

So why did several people suggest he needed a smaller boat and definitely a tiller which he could use in bum to steer?

Really not appropriate, nor good suggestions. People have smaller boats because either they prefer them or can only afford one. If they come with a tiller (as most do) that is what is preferred and you have to find ways of coping with it including using your bum while you rummage down to find the engine control (or use your foot)

On the other hand the OP has the funds to buy a boat with a wheel (and a binnacle mounted engine control) plus a reliable underdeck autopilot which operates with a press of a button. when you have that you realise how much better it is for single handing than a tiller in a small cockpit.

 

[Tintin]

To be fair, he stated up front that he wanted a wheel and the boats he is looking at do not come with a tiller.

So why did several people suggest he needed a smaller boat and definitely a tiller which he could use in bum to steer?

Really not appropriate, nor good suggestions. People have smaller boats because either they prefer them or can only afford one. If they come with a tiller (as most do) that is what is preferred and you have to find ways of coping with it including using your bum while you rummage down to find the engine control (or use your foot)

On the other hand the OP has the funds to buy a boat with a wheel (and a binnacle mounted engine control) plus a reliable underdeck autopilot which operates with a press of a button. when you have that you realise how much better it is for single handing than a tiller in a small cockpit.

Fairly certain I didn't suggest a smaller boat with a small cockpit, must re read what I wrote.....

Nope. Didn't.

How dare I give my opinion on what I think is suitable for single handed sailing .

I'll consider myself suitably chastised by the bolshy newbie and the forum dixon of dock green.