Ok I should know but I don't so asking for advice

[Sea Hustler]

My old jetty before I replaced with floating pontoons.

Now you can see why the end parted from the rest !! The boat was always moored stern to ...

Looks an amazing spot, jealous

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Re Dummy moments: Having been sailing yachts for nearly 40 years mine are more complex or sophisticated than a mere novice.

My most recent was after having new gearbox fitted after clutch failure (clutch not covered by warranty), the yard said there was water in the fuel so they had polished it (removed water via recycling thingy) Having delayed 4 weekends to do my rudder mod, I was keen to get boat launched and set of the Guernsey but it sounded odd. So I called specialist engineer L near Plymouth who said water still in injectors, and he cant find spare filter cartridge or indeed the whole replacement unit.

Now the previous year the water drain tap on the fuel separator had snapped but as fuel separator as typically in many small boat design ethos, was almost unreachable I had ignored it think it a once off just needing once off disassembly to let water out. (Wrong decision. I am an engineer and should know better)

So upside down in the engine compartment I disassembled again, started engine and shot off down the Plym only for engine to die mid channel. Ancored and then had terse message from pilot boat saying a big 8000 tonner was coming in and he needed to shift me. Re-anchored and freindly mobo towed us into Yacht Haven. Upside down again and 3rd drain and all seems fine.

Decided not to go 100miles over open sea to Guernsey (Correct decision) but to try and get to Falmouth (to go to Scilly), and buy new unit in Falmouth- (weak decision). No units to be had in Falmouth so get bus to Penryn and buy unit and bring back to boat hoping to do fitting in Scilly (poor decision)

Head past the Lizard in no wind but 1m MountsBay wave and whole separator glass disintegrates. Happily man on quayside at Falmouth had said if all else fails stick engine fuel pipes in a can of diesel. Navigator panics but we are only drifting at about 1kt towards rocks so do that fuel pipe business expediently and it all works. Notify coastguard as unsure how long can gives, who notify RNLI who are on another shout. Get to Newlyn whose harbour master tell me that if I had had an RNLI tow I could have had 3 free night, but I glad I let the lads and lasses go to their rest.

Discover new unit does not come with connecting parts so spend two days trying to source connection from chandlers and camping shop and B&Q in Redruth (waste of my time but well meaning). Call in Penwith Marine engineer who replaces one part tightens connection, and says "simple".


As for sailing the worst one was playing with my big genoa in a F4 gusting F6. Previous boat was a 32ft Westerly, no greyhound so when sails wore out I got a bigger sail. Sailing nicely down Bristol Channel and trying to make to windward with full genoa but part furled main, a big gust hit us and she heeled to a great degree. She grips like mad and instantly self tacks and heads downwind, then gybes with a crash, so I hurriedly head back up wind and check for damage. At which point the RNLI appear having seen all this out of control circling from Newquay. Are you having trouble sir - no all fine I lied. In strong winds reef, and do not try and get an old style bilge keeler to get too close to the wind, she will then only go sideways anyway.

Previously we have had minor items like having melted my exhaust syphon box due to forgetting to open the engine sea cock, so came into Milford with steam rising from open cockpit sole hatches and pumps running flat out as hot engine cooling water went straight into bilges

 

[Sea Hustler]

Re Dummy moments: Having been sailing yachts for nearly 40 years mine are more complex or sophisticated than a mere novice.

My most recent was after having new gearbox fitted after clutch failure (clutch not covered by warranty), the yard said there was water in the fuel so they had polished it (removed water via recycling thingy) Having delayed 4 weekends to do my rudder mod, I was keen to get boat launched and set of the Guernsey but it sounded odd. So I called specialist engineer L near Plymouth who said water still in injectors, and he cant find spare filter cartridge or indeed the whole replacement unit.

Now the previous year the water drain tap on the fuel separator had snapped but as fuel separator as typically in many small boat design ethos, was almost unreachable I had ignored it think it a once off just needing once off disassembly to let water out. (Wrong decision. I am an engineer and should know better)

So upside down in the engine compartment I disassembled again, started engine and shot off down the Plym only for engine to die mid channel. Ancored and then had terse message from pilot boat saying a big 8000 tonner was coming in and he needed to shift me. Re-anchored and freindly mobo towed us into Yacht Haven. Upside down again and 3rd drain and all seems fine.

Decided not to go 100miles over open sea to Guernsey (Correct decision) but to try and get to Falmouth (to go to Scilly), and buy new unit in Falmouth- (weak decision). No units to be had in Falmouth so get bus to Penryn and buy unit and bring back to boat hoping to do fitting in Scilly (poor decision)

Head past the Lizard in no wind but 1m MountsBay wave and whole separator glass disintegrates. Happily man on quayside at Famouth had said if all else fails still engine fuel pipes in a can of diesel. Navigator panics but we are only drifting at about 1kt towards rocks so do that fuel pipe business expediently and it all works. Notify coastguard as unsure how long can gives, who notify RNLI who are on another shout. Get to Newlyn whose harbour master tell me that if I had had an RNLI tow I could have had 3 free night, but I glad I let the lads and lasses go to their rest.

Discover new unit does not come with connecting parts so spend two days trying to source connection from chandlers and camping shop and B&Q in Redruth (waste of my time but well meaning). Call in Penwith Marine engineer who replaces one part tightens connection, and says "simple".


As for sailing the worst one was playing with my big genoa in a F4 gusting F6. Previous boat was a 32ft Westerly, no greyhound so when sails wore out I got a bigger sail. Sailing nicely down Bristol Channel and trying to make to windward with full genoa but part furled main, a big gust hit us and she heeled to a great degree. She grips like mad and instantly self tacks and heads downwind, then gybes with a crash, so I hurriedly head back up wind and check for damage. At which point the RNLI appear having seen all this out of control circling from Newquay. Are you having trouble sir - no all fine I lied. In strong winds reef, and do not try and get an old style bilge keeler to get too close to the wind, she will then only go sideways anyway.

Previously we have had minor items like having melted my exhaust syphon box due to forgetting to open the engine sea cock, so came into Milford with steam rising from open cockpit sole hatches and pumps running flat out as hot engine cooling water went straight into bilges

So encouraging knowing all the fun I have to look forward to

 

[Sea Hustler]

You have my sympathy, I've ended up in this situation in both dinghies and yachts - always when overpowered (too much sail up). On top of the boat not doing what you expected you had the added stress of seasick and unhappy crew - not fun.

The boat may inherently not like tacking, but it sounds to me like you have a bit of mucking about with the sails to try first. I'd suggest next time trying to tack in lighter wind and particularly lighter seas - run the engine slowly just to keep the boat moving. Next time try it with the engine in neutral, ready to use if you need it. Without the stress and sickness you'll soon figure it out.

My own move from dinghies to yachts also involved learning that yachts turn slower - obvious, but trying to turn too fast just stalls the rudder and stops the boat, at which point it just won't turn. Your boat has bulk, therefore momentum - use it.

If it really won't tack you can learn to gybe it safely, but from your own words I don't think your skill level is anywhere near there yet.

Sorry, so many helpful replies, I somehow missed yours.

I have had so much helpful advice and I am trying to stitch it all together to help me figure things out. I think I have gleaned some very useful information and will try to put as much of it into practice as I can. One thing I am sure of is that even if I can't do everything people have suggested, even using a little of their advice I am sure will improve things. Thanks

 

[Refueler]

Looks an amazing spot, jealous

You should see my other 'hobby' ..... over 75 Radio Controlled models ready to fly / sail / drive .....

If you get bored ... have a look through my Youtube channel : solentlifeuk

 

[Sea Hustler]

Holyyyyyyyyyyy shite, I built model aircraft as a kid but I had ONE at a time.

Here's another question you can probably answer which would make a whole lot of sense if I am correct. The last people to own and sail Sea Hustler, spent quite a bit of time and money on her. Internally some additional cabinetry has been installed to a very high standard, her engine was professionally rebuilt in 2000, she had a full osmosis treatment and the hull epoxied at the same time, standing rigging was replaced, depth sounder installed and autopilot (since removed by a Philistine) fitted

But one thing has always puzzled me, in my humble opinion she is over propped, I say this because the 1500 BMC Captain will not reach full revs while in gear, there is a significant 'kick' when you engage forward and the prop starts to turn and if I push her beyond about 1700 revs she begins to run hot without any increase in SOG. I have always wondered why they would have spent all that money on basically refurbishing her and then put the wrong prop on her. Here's the question, as seems to be the general consensus, she needs mechanical assistance a lot of the time, would deliberately over propping her allow me to run the engine at lower revs than even she was designed to do due to the pitch of the prop. Thereby being more economical to run than the higher revs the correct prop may require for the same amount of punch.

Im probably totally wrong but it would explain something that has puzzled me for some time if im not.

 

[Refueler]

Fuel consumption - I know this sounds strange - but its not primarily RPM related - its load related .. the 'governor' will open to maintain the engine at the throttle setting you put lever to ... its not like a carburettor where lever lifts barrel set amount and load will change the RPM - so you need increase barrel lift etc.
The injection pump governor looks after that.

OK .. now we've got that out of the way - this means then that at a given load - the engine will be using x fuel .. so that engine may be running lower RPM due to over-propping - but consumption likely still high based on the load ...
Its a false sense .. you hear engine running slower - so you think consumption is less ... but load is still there.

If your engine cannot achieve near max rpm - then I would be inclined to part ex the prop in for a better match to hull / engine combo. This has benefits ... better fuel burn ... less smoke / unburnt fuel in exhaust ... engine should run sweeter ... less chance of overheating - that I would look into anyway .. better speed range on throttle especially low down ... LESS PROP WALK - now that's a good bit of news !!

I suspect previous who fitted that prop may have fallen into the low RPM trap thinking ..
Of course majority of motor sailing - the throttle sits at a level to maintain a speed along with the sails ... I work on 4.5 - 5kts as that's the most comfortable 'ride' and sweet spot on the engine ...
You will arrive at a speed that suits you and the boat ... but having the engine propped to run at low RPM is false thinking - it removes bottom end finesse .. it does not necessarily reduce fuel consumption as much as thought .. it also tends to carbon up all sorts - as they say - thrash a diesel and it thanks you !

My 4-107 - guy who fitted it to my SR25 - replacing the antique 4-99 .. knew previous owner of the engine ... it was 2nd hand. He'd swapped it out as it smoked. It was fitted - coupled up .. tested ... and off we went into Chichester Hbr ..... once clear of others - we opened that throttle .... any environmentalists if they had seen it would have heartattack .... the cloud of black shite out the back was amazing !! We kept her going for a bit ... slowed down to reasonable ... after a while gave it the gun again ...

That engine 20yrs later is purring lovelly ... OK - it gives an initial puff of smoke when cold ... it can still make transom a bit black if throttle is opened up high ... but proves the guy swapped out really for nothing ..
Oh and my prop was thought to be a touch small being from the 4-99 - but turns out to be actually a touch too big .. luckily not too much.

Of course I may be wrong ....

 

[Sea Hustler]

That's useful to know, how would I confirm my suspicions that she is over propped apart from the anecdotal observations I have made

 

[Refueler]

That's useful to know, how would I confirm my suspicions that she is over propped apart from the anecdotal observations I have made

You need to talk to a boat engine person ... find another owner with similar boat / engine combo - see what they have.... try find online any info / manuals possible to help ... the BMC Captain was a popular engine in those days ..

 

[Sea Hustler]

You need to talk to a boat engine person ... find another owner with similar boat / engine combo - see what they have.... try find online any info / manuals possible to help ... the BMC Captain was a popular engine in those days ..

Thanks, fortunately I know a couple of Brothers who run a fleet of hire boats on the Thames and are apparently one of just a few companies who specialise in BMC Captains, trouble is whenever I ask the senior (motorboat user) any questions he gives me such technical and complicate answers they mean nothing. I will ask his younger brother who is a sailer and has a boat moored near mine at Portsmouth to come aboard and have a look/listen for me.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

My boat is mildly overpropped as has 16/13 prop for 2.6 to 1 gearbox but intended for 3 to 1 and optimised for grunt not sailing drag

So it gives good grunt but cant reach max revs and thus absolute max power.
However it never runs hot and displays no adverse symptoms.

So what is your hearbox ration and prop size? There are several sites that can give you the calcs. I soyght advice from the place in Isleworth, London, who supplied the prop

 

[Sea Hustler]

My boat is mildly overpropped as has 16/13 prop for 2.6 to 1 gearbox but intended for 3 to 1 and optimised for grunt not sailing drag

So it gives good grunt but cant reach max revs and thus absolute max power.
However it never runs hot and displays no adverse symptoms.

So what is your hearbox ration and prop size? There are several sites that can give you the calcs. I soyght advice from the place in Isleworth, London, who supplied the prop

Owww now your asking, I've no idea. I know its a Borg Warner Velvet Drive and I never measured the prop before she went in the water. As she is on a drying out berth, I can clamber over the rail and measure it next time i'm on the boat, I even recall there are some numbers stamped on it but can't remember what they are.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks, fortunately I know a couple of Brothers who run a fleet of hire boats on the Thames and are apparently one of just a few companies who specialise in BMC Captains, trouble is whenever I ask the senior (motorboat user) any questions he gives me such technical and complicate answers they mean nothing. I will ask his younger brother who is a sailer and has a boat moored near mine at Portsmouth to come aboard and have a look/listen for me.

I would be looking into the overheating ... even with overpropping - it should just load the engine down ... loads of smoke unburnt fuel as governor tries to speed up engine ... In extreme cases it can lead to overheating.

 

[Sea Hustler]

Clearly I know far less about my boat than I realised LOL

 

[Sea Hustler]

I would be looking into the overheating ... even with overpropping - it should just load the engine down ... loads of smoke unburnt fuel as governor tries to speed up engine ... In extreme cases it can lead to overheating.

Unburnt fuel is something I have experienced. I ran the engine while tied up to the pontoon and after about 30 minutes I noticed a black sooty film drifting away from us on the current, research lead me to conclude it was unburnt fuel but I wasn't in gear and the prop was not turning.

 

[Refueler]

Owww now your asking, I've no idea. I know its a Borg Warner Velvet Drive and I never measured the prop before she went in the water. As she is on a drying out berth, I can clamber over the rail and measure it next time i'm on the boat, I even recall there are some numbers stamped on it but can't remember what they are.

You need three sets of numbers :

1. Engine Serial # - many marine engines come in different ratings and can affect what ratios are used with it.
2. Gearbox drive ratio
3. Prop pitch / diameter / number of blades.

Go talk with that 'brother' ..... we can only lead you towards answers .. not answer ourself.

 

[Sea Hustler]

It's possible I messed up a setting on the injector pump when I was working on the engine last year. I have a basic Owners manual which is really a bunch of crude drawings from the 1960's none of which are really that helpful comprising of drawings of various parts with arrows pointing roughly at what the very few words are describing. I think it was really written for a diesel fitter that knew what he was doing already rather than a novice like me. When bleeding the fuel system, a diagram showed an arrow pointing at the bleed nipple on top of the injector pump. I slackened it off and bled the system, using the manual lift pump. As the entire engine had been painted with blue Hammerite when it was rebuilt, I decided to clean the vent of all the old crud and paint while I had it apart. But when replacing it, I must have screwed it down too far because the engine suddenly would not start. I backed off the screw a full turn to where I thought it had been before and it fired up and has run ever since. What I had not realised was that the part that I thought was the bleed nipple was in fact the body of some adjuster on top of the injector pump and the bleed vent was the tiny screw in the top of it.

Getting that setting checked is one of the jobs I hope I can persuade my friend to look at when I persuade him to step aboard sometime soon.

 

[Refueler]

It's possible I messed up a setting on the injector pump when I was working on the engine last year. I have a basic Owners manual which is really a bunch of crude drawings from the 1960's none of which are really that helpful comprising of drawings of various parts with arrows pointing roughly at what the very few words are describing. I think it was really written for a diesel fitter that knew what he was doing already rather than a novice like me. When bleeding the fuel system, a diagram showed an arrow pointing at the bleed nipple on top of the injector pump. I slackened it off and bled the system, using the manual lift pump. As the entire engine had been painted with blue Hammerite when it was rebuilt, I decided to clean the vent of all the old crud and paint while I had it apart. But when replacing it, I must have screwed it down too far because the engine suddenly would not start. I backed off the screw a full turn to where I thought it had been before and it fired up and has run ever since. What I had not realised was that the part that I thought was the bleed nipple was in fact the body of some adjuster on top of the injector pump and the bleed vent was the tiny screw in the top of it.

Getting that setting checked is one of the jobs I hope I can persuade my friend to look at when I persuade him to step aboard sometime soon.

If she's chucking out crap into the water ... I think its a good idea have your mate take a look. Marina's are not so keen on 'rainbow / blackened' waters !!

 

[Sea Hustler]

You need three sets of numbers :

1. Engine Serial # - many marine engines come in different ratings and can affect what ratios are used with it.
2. Gearbox drive ratio
3. Prop pitch / diameter / number of blades.

Go talk with that 'brother' ..... we can only lead you towards answers .. not answer ourself.

You have been amazing, I have learnt more in these past few days about the boat than in the past 18 months. I have scoured T'internet for any information I can find on her but apart from some basic information on the Sailboat Data website, and an article about the designer, there is nothing.

 

[Sea Hustler]

If she's chucking out crap into the water ... I think its a good idea have your mate take a look. Marina's are not so keen on 'rainbow / blackened' waters !!

luckily we were berthed on the very last finger at the entrance and as soon as I saw it I cut the engine so it wasnt so bad.