Portuguese residency - current situation - advice needed

[greeny]

You can lead a horse to water, ................................... I'm finished in this thread.

 

[Beneteau381]

Shan, it seems you want to believe the absolute worst case scenarios on this one and are only interested in the doom and gloom of future threats to our lives.
Reality will prevail.
[/QUOTE

I wouldnt bother, in the Lounge she used to argue with any one with different views to her!

 

[nortada]

This thread was started by Webcraft seeking some genuine advice on how to best manage his future.

It has transmogrified into an argument, which is the very last thing Liveaboard Link should be about.

I think we should all draw back to our principle of overcoming shared problems (like the fallout from Brexit) and leave heated divisions to The Forum/Current Affairs etc.

Yes, I am being bit sanctimonious and am as guilty as the next.???

Sorry if this coming across wrong but the end-game is just too important.

 

[jordanbasset]

This thread was started by Webcraft seeking some genuine advice on how to best manage his future.

It has transmogrified into an argument, which is the very last thing Liveaboard Link should be about.

I think we should all draw back to our principle of overcoming shared problems (like the fallout from Brexit) and leave heated divisions to The Forum/Current Affairs etc.

Yes,I am being bit sanctimonious and am as guilty as the next.???

Sorry if this coming across wrong but the end-game is just too important.

Agree and that includes identifying possible problems and not dismissing them and remembering that what goes on while we still have freedom of movement does not mean it will continue post 2021. Regardless of whether you think Brexit is a good or bad thing in general it will make a big difference to many British people who spend time in Schengen countries. It is good to discuss ways to mitigate the worst problems, but we need to accept there will be problems for many people going forward.

It is good to talk about the issues and that means listening to people who may have a different opinion, referring to issues/disputes/arguments from elsewhere is not helpful for getting the full breadth of information.
PS this is not directed at you Nortada,

 

[nortada]

Agree and that includes identifying possible problems and not dismissing them and remembering that what goes on while we still have freedom of movement does not mean it will continue post 2021. Regardless of whether you think Brexit is a good or bad thing in general it will make a big difference to many British people who spend time in Schengen countries. It is good to discuss ways to mitigate the worst problems, but we need to accept there will be problems for many people going forward.

It is good to talk about the issues and that means listening to people who may have a different opinion, referring to issues/disputes/arguments from elsewhere is not helpful for getting the full breadth of information.
PS this is not directed at you Nortada,

Thanks, understand that I am not in the frame?

As some may be aware, in the past, I have voiced concerns that the last thing we want is this working forum turning into The Lounge etc. and a nasty running battle where little or nothing is achieved??

 

[shan]

Thanks, understand that I am not in the frame?

As some may be aware, in the past, I have voiced concerns that the last thing we want is this working forum turning into The Lounge etc. and a nasty running battle where little or nothing is achieved??

I have absolutely no interest in turning this into a nasty running battle. I do have an interest in identifying what could be the worse case scenario and planning accordingly. Less chance of being caught out. I have not made this personal nor have I personally attacked anyone on this thread.

 

[Beneteau381]

Agree and that includes identifying possible problems and not dismissing them and remembering that what goes on while we still have freedom of movement does not mean it will continue post 2021. Regardless of whether you think Brexit is a good or bad thing in general it will make a big difference to many British people who spend time in Schengen countries. It is good to discuss ways to mitigate the worst problems, but we need to accept there will be problems for many people going forward.

It is good to talk about the issues and that means listening to people who may have a different opinion, referring to issues/disputes/arguments from elsewhere is not helpful for getting the full breadth of information.
PS this is not directed at you Nortada,

Moi? thats the point I made "that means listening to people who may have a different opinion"

 

[RAI]

Just a couple of observations/questions.
Am I right in believing that when passing into the Schengen region, through ports/airports, travel documents are scanned by the immigration, the computer database giving the immigration officer guidance on the traveller concerned and logging the entry/exit from Schengen. So after 1st January, the 90/180 rule observance can be checked?
Residence ID cards for non-nationals are not valid travel documents. As a Brit resident in Germany then Belgium, my ID cards were not valid travel documents. I tried them both out and they were rejected even by Ryanair staff at boarding or getting on ferries in the Canaries. I needed my passport as a Brit. Of course, an ID card is a valid travel document for nationals, so now I have dual citizenship, I can use my (different) ID card for Schengen travel.
I think this means that a Brit with residence in Portugal can, until the end of the year, travel on his British passport throughout Schengen but in the new year will have to obey the 90/180 day rule. His Portuguese residence ID card will not be a valid travel document and if asked by police for his travel document, must use his passport. Given police access to the Schengen database means the 90/180 day rule could be checked.
Or not?

 

[jordanbasset]

I wouldnt bother, in the Lounge she used to argue with any one with different views to her!

Moi? thats the point I made "that means listening to people who may have a different opinion"

Shan has asked for information and given her opinions, she has done that in a reasoned way, you may not agree with them, that's fine, but your above post really didn't help the process
Having said that I really do not want to side track the thread so perhaps concentrate on discussing the issues rather than attacking the poster for what she may or may not have done elsewhere

 

[nortada]

Just a couple of observations/questions.
Am I right in believing that when passing into the Schengen region, through ports/airports, travel documents are scanned by the immigration, the computer database giving the immigration officer guidance on the traveller concerned and logging the entry/exit from Schengen. So after 1st January, the 90/180 rule observance can be checked?
Residence ID cards for non-nationals are not valid travel documents. As a Brit resident in Germany then Belgium, my ID cards were not valid travel documents. I tried them both out and they were rejected even by Ryanair staff at boarding or getting on ferries in the Canaries. I needed my passport as a Brit. Of course, an ID card is a valid travel document for nationals, so now I have dual citizenship, I can use my (different) ID card for Schengen travel.
I think this means that a Brit with residence in Portugal can, until the end of the year, travel on his British passport throughout Schengen but in the new year will have to obey the 90/180 day rule. His Portuguese residence ID card will not be a valid travel document and if asked by police for his travel document, must use his passport. Given police access to the Schengen database means the 90/180 day rule could be checked.
Or not?

There are many on here who have better knowledge than me but from experience, when arriving at Faro from the UK, immigration regularly wave me through with no checks. Especially if the electronic gates are inoperative and there is a bit of a crush on.

Post 1/2/21, it has been suggested that, to cut down waiting (bit of a novelty in Portugal?), there will be a special queue for Brits inbound, but this will be primarily for Brit holiday makers, who will not have residency so possibly those of us with residency will be expected to continue to use the EU citizens queues.

From previous experience the officials do not appear to mind which queue you use so if it is quicker, I regularly use the Non EU queue and my passport is still not always scanned.

Typical Portugal. One of the reasons I love the country and I can’t see that much changing post 31/12/20 but who knows

Travelling on 1/1/21 (with a hangover?) could be interesting.

 

[RAI]

There are many on here who have better knowledge than me but from experience, when arriving at Faro from the UK, immigration regularly wave me through with no checks. Especially if the electronic gates are inoperative and there is a bit of a crush on.

Post 1/2/21, it has been suggested that, to cut down waiting (bit of a novelty in Portugal?), there will be a special queue for Brits inbound, but this will be primarily for Brit holiday makers, who will not have residency so possibly those of us with residency will be expected to continue to use the EU citizens queues.

From previous experience the officials do not appear to mind which queue you use so if it is quicker, I regularly use the Non EU queue and my passport is still not always scanned.

Typical Portugal. One of the reasons I love the country and I can’t see that much changing post 31/12/20 but who knows

Travelling on 1/1/21 (with a hangover?) could be interesting.

I agree that Faro immigration seems very lax. However, Ryanair, for example, does require travel document details for check-in and they do scan the boarding pass at boarding. I wonder if this info is passed on?
Then there are plans that in future all journeys will require prior notification, like trips to America do. Schengen plans the same thing. Google ETIAS.

 

[shan]

I agree that Faro immigration seems very lax. However, Ryanair, for example, does require travel document details for check-in and they do scan the boarding pass at boarding. I wonder if this info is passed on?
Then there are plans that in future all journeys will require prior notification, like trips to America do. Schengen plans the same thing. Google ETIAS.

I spoke to a friend who has been through the Schengen visa process several times. The amount of information required and the cost has been eye watering. He regularly travels to EU Schengen areas. His first Schengen visa was granted for the duration of his trip (he had to provide booking and flight information to prove the duration of his trip. The 2nd Schengen visa was granted for 3 months as was the 3rd. 4th one was for 1 year and it has been renewed for a year each time thereafter. Passport stamped and scanned through border control (airports).

What this means for the UK is obviously not certain but I think one needs to bear in mind what currently happens in regards to 3rd countries. Whether the EU members will end up tightening up their controls or not is not something I can predict but it is certainly something I can prepare for.

I believe ETIAS is due to be instituted in 2022 - hopefully, this will make things easier for those from the UK wanting to travel to EU member countries.

 

[25931]

I have looked at the 90 days and it doesn't have to be consecutive. Apparently, the continuity of one's residence is not affected by absences shorter than 6 months, which I easily fulfil. Legally, you should register but yes, you are right in that there doesn't seem to be anyone checking. The reason I am doing this is that it will allow me relative freedom from the 90/180 day rule within Portugal. I am going to be registering in September. We fall under Conceição de Tavira so the Camara in Tavira.

I don't understand why you are waiting until September if you are in a position to do so sooner.
It appears that the SEF is already being involved in some cases.

 

[RAI]

I spoke to a friend who has been through the Schengen visa process several times. The amount of information required and the cost has been eye watering. He regularly travels to EU Schengen areas. His first Schengen visa was granted for the duration of his trip (he had to provide booking and flight information to prove the duration of his trip. The 2nd Schengen visa was granted for 3 months as was the 3rd. 4th one was for 1 year and it has been renewed for a year each time thereafter. Passport stamped and scanned through border control (airports).

What this means for the UK is obviously not certain but I think one needs to bear in mind what currently happens in regards to 3rd countries. Whether the EU members will end up tightening up their controls or not is not something I can predict but it is certainly something I can prepare for.

I believe ETIAS is due to be instituted in 2022 - hopefully, this will make things easier for those from the UK wanting to travel to EU member countries.

Yes, getting a full Schengen visa for some third country nationals is a drag. It looks like tourist Brits will be allowed visa free travel under the 90/180 days rule but ETIAS will add admin.
However, working in Europe Brits will have to obey EU nation requirements which I guess includes Schengen visas.

 

[shan]

I don't understand why you are waiting until September if you are in a position to do so sooner.
It appears that the SEF is already being involved in some cases.

You're probably right. It's just that in September, Mr Shan and I are officially on leave. At the moment the status is 'working from home'.

 

[Graham376]

Just a couple of observations/questions.
Am I right in believing that when passing into the Schengen region, through ports/airports, travel documents are scanned by the immigration, the computer database giving the immigration officer guidance on the traveller concerned and logging the entry/exit from Schengen. So after 1st January, the 90/180 rule observance can be checked?
Residence ID cards for non-nationals are not valid travel documents. As a Brit resident in Germany then Belgium, my ID cards were not valid travel documents. I tried them both out and they were rejected even by Ryanair staff at boarding or getting on ferries in the Canaries. I needed my passport as a Brit. Of course, an ID card is a valid travel document for nationals, so now I have dual citizenship, I can use my (different) ID card for Schengen travel.
I think this means that a Brit with residence in Portugal can, until the end of the year, travel on his British passport throughout Schengen but in the new year will have to obey the 90/180 day rule. His Portuguese residence ID card will not be a valid travel document and if asked by police for his travel document, must use his passport. Given police access to the Schengen database means the 90/180 day rule could be checked. Or not?

There is confusion on the passport stamping issue. it would seem reasonable to expect third country passports to be stamped when arriving in the EU/Schengen as used to happen before Common Market but, I received this reply from Europe Direct (previously posted on other threads)

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply. We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.​

You're correct about residence cards not being travel documents although they will no doubt have to be produced as evidence that one hasn't overstayed. I wonder if country of residence will make a note in passports to the effect the holder is resident.

 

[RAI]

There is confusion on the passport stamping issue. it would seem reasonable to expect third country passports to be stamped when arriving in the EU/Schengen as used to happen before Common Market but, I received this reply from Europe Direct (previously posted on other threads)

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply. We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.​

You're correct about residence cards not being travel documents although they will no doubt have to be produced as evidence that one hasn't overstayed. I wonder if country of residence will make a note in passports to the effect the holder is resident.

I don't think they care much about stamps. They can be easily forged. It's what's in the Schengen data base that counts. Passport info is probably linked to residence info in it.

 

[Beneteau381]

I don't think they care much about stamps. They can be easily forged. It's what's in the Schengen data base that counts. Passport info is probably linked to residence info in it.

Leaving Albufeira last year, nearly at Vilamoura when the phone goes. It was the lady from reception, have you left? Yes. Where are you going? Culatra. Oh ok thank you see you in September! So we leave and then disappear!

 

[Beneteau381]

Then two years ago we laeft La Linea for Smir. The girls on the desk there have told me previously, they have to let the Guardia know every day what boats are there. So we disappear and go to Morocco for a week, then come back to La Linea to our berth, no check in, nowt. All the database knows is that we werent there for a week!

 

[25931]

You're probably right. It's just that in September, Mr Shan and I are officially on leave. At the moment the status is 'working from home'.

We don't know what the covid situation will be but what we do know is that thousands of Alfacinhas will be coming down and could easily cause a lockdown in September.