Coming alongside pontoons with a cross-wind - advice needed please!

[tom3987]

Im looking for some advice on the best way to approach this particular pontoon. I know there are multiple ways to skin a cat and each boat is different etc but I would like to hear how others would approach this berth.

I had a bit of a disaster in to a new marina and im re-evaluating what I did and what I should have done etc to improve. Im very new to big boats and of course I need more practice and experience.

Ive not long bought this boat so im still getting used to how it handles, I bought it in Scotland and I have just arrived back in Liverpool - This happened in Liverpool Marina. Nothing was damaged but I almost hit the finger side on. We arrived just as the sunset as we had 13 hours from the IOM to Liverpool and we had just enough daylight..... For our first attempt...

I called through to get my visitor berth a couple of days before, they said VB3. I checked on the map they have on their website and I couldn't see this berth, i called back up and we both checked the map at the same time (Both on the website. same page etc) which she then said it was BI (See image below) then Berth 3. The lock entrance is just on the right-hand side of this. So I thought Great - We can come in do a U-turn and come starboard side too as we have plenty of room.




This all went very smoothly. No issues at this point, We just put all the lines on and then the lock keeper said we were in the wrong berth, It was all the way to the other end. So now im a little unprepared as to where im going. We took the lines off and made our way to the end, Turns out it's BB3.
There is a gap in the building where the car park is and we only had a slight breeze but enough to slide the boat. It seemed very tight to turn into this bay due to other obstructions. Also by now, it's about half 9 at night so it's getting very dark.

This is what happened:

I attempted to do the same as before, come around and do a U-turn, but the breeze slid the boat over towards 5, i put it in reverse but the prop walk kicked the bow over more than 5. I tried a couple of times to get it back out but it was too late, luckily we got a fender in the gap and the lock keeper was a great help and managed to keep us off it.

This is how we ended up:



My brother managed to get off on 1 with a line and pulled us in, I managed to throw a line over a cleat and pull the boat in. So now we are in.



Below in Green is what currently is in the marina, The one I have circled is anchors or something, the fella told me not to get close to this as I was approaching as I was trying to take it wide to do my U-turn. The boats in Green were also in the births just to give you an idea of what I was working with. The blue with the dots in the width, its saying 16m. My boat is 11.4m.




As mentioned above I know it's inexperience but I do need to know how I could have handled this better.
Should I have tried to reverse it like this?

Would the bow come across in time with the wind? As mentioned it wasn't much, about 8-10kts.

I spoke with Liverpool Marina on the confusion with berths, the fella said he will speak to someone to get the Map updated. I think the original pontoon I went to was the original visitor berth but they are getting work done on it so this is the new one and the map hasn't been updated.

Any help or suggestion you may have would be greatly appreciated.

 

[neil_s]

I think you didn't do too badly. Your idea of reversing in might work - I notice most of the boats already in the berths have backed in. My own boat does not steer well in reverse, but if you can get your stern to the end of the pontoon, your crew can easily jump ashore and held you to get alongside.

 

[steveeasy]

Going in to a new marina always is a little challenging. Firstly I find it challenging even identifying the correct pontoon. I like to identify and escape plan if all goes belly up and ill have lines each side. Ill also have a long pole with something very soft on the end. Now for the Tricky bit. I actually think it just comes with time. no right or wrong way, Knowing your boat and how you can turn her in tight spots really will give you all the confidence you need. That way if it does not go to plan you can get yourself out of a impending disaster. Sound like you coped well given the small area you had to turn and the wind to contend with

Steveeasy

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Personally, I think the marina were out of order to ask you to move, in the dark. I would have politely refused, said I didn’t know the way, and if they wanted it moved, to kindly do it themselves. Unless the bertholder you wre in was waiting for his berth that is. Otherwise, you did well, in very difficult circumstances.

 

[Pye_End]

If mooring next to 5 was an option, and warping across was possible, then sometimes a useful backup plan. Make sure fenders rigged both sides before coming in. Even with no lines attached, once alongside and upwind you probably won't go anywhere, and have the time then to sort things out.

 

[westernman]

To be really helpful we need to know the kind of boat - e.g. sailing boat, long keel or short keel, heavy/light, etc.
And the wind direction and strength.

To have control over direction, you need to be moving. The more wind the faster you need to be moving to prevent the bow being blown off.
You will also find that you can turn better in one direction than another doing a 3 point turn. However, if there is too much wind you can't get around with a 3 -point turn anyway.

Most sailing boats will back reliably dead into the wind. For a different direction it depends very much on the boat.

Do not underestimate what can be done with a warp in the right place and motoring forwards or backwards against it.

 

[ashtead]

Reallly turns on boat and how well you can back. If you had say a Bavaria 36 with no bowthruster you might be advised to back all the way down fairway out of b3 and up into the berth channel for BB -go past berth and stop and you have what’s termed an open berth at bb3 to drive into forward . You often see people back into fairways past the berth so you can then turn into berth going forward _
If you are feeling lucky go past the berth in forward and back in but you might be turning the stern through wind . It’s not entirely clear where winds coming from and if it will push you onto pontoonbb3 though

 

[ylop]

I heard Tom Cuncliffe once describe how if presented with a difficult berth for your particular boat and the conditions you should not be afraid to say "no I'd prefer ....". Obviously in very busy marinas you might not always have the choice, but you can always explain its a new boat/short handed and you'd like their assistance too. You shouldn't assume the marina staff have ever helmed a boat, never mind one with the particular keel, engine etc you are working with.

Personally I'd have reversed in BUT that doesn't mean it would have been smoother - I just have better visibility from the wheel to the aft.

 

[westernman]

I heard Tom Cuncliffe once describe how if presented with a difficult berth for your particular boat and the conditions you should not be afraid to say "no I'd prefer ....". Obviously in very busy marinas you might not always have the choice, but you can always explain its a new boat/short handed and you'd like their assistance too. You shouldn't assume the marina staff have ever helmed a boat, never mind one with the particular keel, engine etc you are working with.

Personally I'd have reversed in BUT that doesn't mean it would have been smoother - I just have better visibility from the wheel to the aft.

And if you have no bow thruster, you need to reverse in and there is a fair amount of wind and it is head on (this is the worst case scenario for my boat), then don't hesitate to ask for a tug. Or another place to park.

In my first marina, the prevailing wind was from the bow quarter when backing into the berth. This was manageable if not too much. I could turn the boat enough so the wind was carrying the bow in the right direction to line up with the berth. I would, start slowly, waiting for the bow to come around, and then wack on full power astern at the right moment, to then apply substantial forward thrust before hitting the wall at the end of the berth. The wind would then carry the bows perfectly onto the pontoon on the side. An if I had started backing in early enough the stern would be close to.

If the wind was too strong and the bow would blow off too quickly, I got a crew member to loop a line over the pile at the end of the dock on the upwind side tied to the bow of the boat, and then once the bows started to blow off too much, take up the slack in the bow line and then motor forward against the line to realign the bows.

Otherwise, I would just go an park in a sideways on berth in front of the capitainerie. I just had to turn to more or less come along side and let the wind blow me onto it.

 

[Refueler]

I drop a line onto the end of the 'pier' that makes up the berth while side onto the end ...... use that to pivot the boat in and not let wind drift her wide onto 5. As she pivots in - drop a line from stern to stop it getting out of line ...

Alternative ... if berth 1 is OK to use .... side up to BB1 - lines over - then walk her round into BB3. Even with a boat or barge on BB1-2 ... you could do that.

There is nothing wrong with doing that - better than drifting down onto other boats or having to fight wind etc.

 

[doug748]

I have ended up in that sort of position, I think most of us have.

On my boat it would be best not to try and motor directly in, but to point into the aisle and then reverse into the wind, ending up stationary in a position aft of the red vessel in space 5, pointing more or less into the berth. Although my boat is not that handy, it does have a big kick to port in reverse and the wind would also be helping this manoeuvre



Going forward, my prop walk would help the turn into the berth, I might end up alongside the boat in slip 5 but it would be safe.

This is with academic planning though, God knows what I might try on the day.
It is tempting to motor into the aisle, turn around to starboard and then into the berth on the way out, letting the momentum and sideslip take you in. However it looks tight and should you fail to get the bow through the wind, on the turn, you are well stuffed and end up marooned alongside the barges at the root.

 

[MisterBaxter]

A line ashore (or to a pontoon in this case) is worth a great deal when maneuvering at close quarters... I can't quite visualise the full scenario here but if a crew member can be dropped on a pontoon with a rope, things become very much easier.

 

[Never Grumble]

Not quite sure re wind direction was it from the bottom of the picture

 

[Hermit]

Obviously without a decent understanding of the space and conditions, one option possibly could be to make a sternboard from all the way outside the main row, past the berth and up towards the end. Then, motor forwards and turn to port into the new berth, with a fender placed well forward on the starboard bow and a bow spring ready to deploy. So, effectively your alternative you suggested but going much further up.

Does depend on a boat that is well-behaved going astern though.

 

[Refueler]

A line ashore (or to a pontoon in this case) is worth a great deal when maneuvering at close quarters... I can't quite visualise the full scenario here but if a crew member can be dropped on a pontoon with a rope, things become very much easier.

Exactly .... see my post #10 ....

 

[Jon magowan]

With regard to your plan to go forwards into the lane and then reverse into the berth…..
I have a very tight berth to get into at my marina and I want to park the boat stern in first. The obvious solution is to drive down the cul de sac then reverse into my berth, exactly as you suggest.
After a couple of attempts I realised this was not working for me. This is why…….
As you slow down, stop the boat and eventually start going backwards you have virtually no control over the boat and you are totally at the mercy of outside elements for quite a long time. This is a recipe for disaster.
Now I reverse the boat all the way from outside the marina to my berth. It’s a bit challenging but at least I have control over the boat throughout.

 

[TiggerToo]

I drop a line onto the end of the 'pier' that makes up the berth while side onto the end ...... use that to pivot the boat in and not let wind drift her wide onto 5. As she pivots in - drop a line from stern to stop it getting out of line ...

Alternative ... if berth 1 is OK to use .... side up to BB1 - lines over - then walk her round into BB3. Even with a boat or barge on BB1-2 ... you could do that.

There is nothing wrong with doing that - better than drifting down onto other boats or having to fight wind etc.

I am becoming a great fan of this approach. Very controlled. Gently rest on whatever is convenient and safe (appropriately fendered) and then pull yourself into place, ideally with the aid of a winch.

 

[Plum]

I drop a line onto the end of the 'pier' that makes up the berth while side onto the end ...... use that to pivot the boat in and not let wind drift her wide onto 5. As she pivots in - drop a line from stern to stop it getting out of line ...

Excellent. That is exactly what I would do with the line attached to a midships cleat

 

[Roberto]

Personally, I think the marina were out of order to ask you to move, in the dark. I would have politely refused, said I didn’t know the way, and if they wanted it moved, to kindly do it themselves. Unless the bertholder you wre in was waiting for his berth that is. Otherwise, you did well, in very difficult circumstances.

Yes, I do not know if this marina has an exceptional traffic 24h, but except for the berth older being beside you I see no reason to move until the following (maybe early) morning. It can be useful to walk and check the destination berth position before moving.
Sometimes I come back impromptu and see my berth is occupied, I just tie to the visitors pontoon and move the following day.

 

[johnalison]

I drop a line onto the end of the 'pier' that makes up the berth while side onto the end ...... use that to pivot the boat in and not let wind drift her wide onto 5. As she pivots in - drop a line from stern to stop it getting out of line ...

Alternative ... if berth 1 is OK to use .... side up to BB1 - lines over - then walk her round into BB3. Even with a boat or barge on BB1-2 ... you could do that.

There is nothing wrong with doing that - better than drifting down onto other boats or having to fight wind etc.

That is what I had to do late one evening in Colijnsplaat with 15 knots of wind blowing unhelpfully. My wife skilfully got our midships line over the cleat and we swung into the berth neatly with no-one around to applaud. I had made a point of walking round first to check on the position and fixings. The trouble in my situation and above is that there really is no fall-back option and he may have had to let the wind blow him to the end of the alley, moor alongside whatever was there and sort things out in the morning.

The occasions when I have got things wrong have almost always been at the end of a long day’s sail when I was more tired than I realised. Couple a long sail, darkness and a new boat, and I’m surprised the OP got away so lightly.