Unlawful detention by a marina - locked in!

[steveeasy]

When you booked they should or could have asked for payment. When you arrived you should have made payment. It could be argued you could not pay as they were not open. However it would have been far worse to not let you in as they were closed. So the reality is they were just being reasonable.

They were not detaining you but just not letting you use a facility the lock until payment was made.

Steveeasy

 

[peteK]

Dont know the area,but arrivng late and leaving at 4am may have been better to anchor somewhere for those few hours.

 

[Refueler]

If I was going to have early start - before office opens ... I would PRE-pay stay ... to make sure I had payment slip in hand ...

Most people I know with boats also do similar.

 

[GEM43]

Alas non-payment for visitor moorings in Scotland is rife. Carradale Harbour reports on the Welcome Anchorages website that 40% of users of the moorings choose not to pay. A few years ago the HM at Campbeltown informed us that most users of the (now extinct) CSC Campbeltown moorings didn't pay. Hardly surprising that these useful visitor moorings are rarely serviced and slowly disappearing. It does my head in - if the user doean't want to stump up the tenner then anchor! Carrick Castle boat club used to post photos of non-payers on their website until such time that they paid up but regrettably this admirable name and shame response seems to have ceased.

 

[Refueler]

No doubt some woke entity complained about naming ??

I have actually picked up the tab for a couple of boats that forgot to pay here when early departure.... but usually as HLR for CA ... I have comms with the boat ...

 

[GEM43]

No doubt some woke entity complained about naming ??

I have actually picked up the tab for a couple of boats that forgot to pay here when early departure.... but usually as HLR for CA ... I have comms with the boat ...

I hope the non-paying CA member is duly admonished for doing a runner whilst flying the burgee!

 

[dunedin]

I’d be pretty narked if I missed the tide or a weather window because they hadn’t provided the mechanism to pay. Arriving late and leaving early is perfectly normal in the maritime world, whether commercial or leisure. I wouldn’t go to a marina where that wasn’t possible, unless taking refuge.

But I suspect that is part of the point. If planning on arriving very late and departing very early, in a marina with locks, check you will be able to exit when you need before locking in. Ideally phone ahead during office hours, and could perhaps pay in advance.
Or work out how you are going to pay online as soon as you get there, don’t leave it till trying to depart.
I have changed plans and departed marinas without locks at very early hour to catch the tide, and then phoned later to pay. But in a place with a lock clearly more advance checking is needed.

 

[Refueler]

I hope the non-paying CA member is duly admonished for doing a runner whilst flying the burgee!

The few cases I have had are same as OP ... unable to pay when wanting to leave ... we have open sea level harbour with no lock ... so night guy is purely watchman. Who's usually a-kip anyway and not supposed to take money.

 

[Refueler]

But I suspect that is part of the point. If planning on arriving very late and departing very early, in a marina with locks, check you will be able to exit when you need before locking in. Ideally phone ahead during office hours, and could perhaps pay in advance.
Or work out how you are going to pay online as soon as you get there, don’t leave it till trying to depart.
I have changed plans and departed marinas without locks at very early hour to catch the tide, and then phoned later to pay. But in a place with a lock clearly more advance checking is needed.

Fully agree ...

I am sure that like most Marinas in Baltic - there is online service which allows payment 24/7 ....

I noted OP says he paid online ... but I understood his online was delayed due HIS internet connection ... not the service ...
I am sure OP will pay up front in future !!

 

[dunedin]

I hope the non-paying CA member is duly admonished for doing a runner whilst flying the burgee!

I certainly always emphasise that in places like Scotland, often without marina offices or staff, staying overnight and not paying “because nobody came to collect my fee” is theft from the local community.
I keep envelopes and stamps on board, and if no online payment facility and not time to go ashore, I have dropped cash in the post from a later harbour.
(One exception is a Council “run” facility where the new paid “harbour master” doesn’t work the hours stated on the office door, the out of hours number is wrong, and they never answer on the VHF channel they ask to call on. The locals said don’t bother.)

 

[Gixer]

Sorry I haven't read the all the responses.
The lock fee and the overnight charge is separate in Shoreham Port. As you were staying on a Shoreham Port mooring (Lady Bee) I guess they wanted full payment before leaving. If you were on the SYC visitor's moorings in the canal I guess you could have left without paying the overnight charge as long as you paid the lock fee.
I'm not saying you were trying to leave without paying but I guess the company owning the lock gates can control who goes through it.

 

[Rappey]

A while back i read that langstone harbour was using ais data to pursue boats that entered the harbour but left without paying the harbour dues.

 

[KompetentKrew]

A petrol startion cannot detain you if you fill up and find you've forgotten your wallet, nor can they retain valuable goods (eg a watch) as surety. In that case istr as long as they have your registration and name - and again istr they cannot demand your address you may go on a promise to pay. If you do not eventually pay or did it intentionally then it becomes a police matter …

It's only a police matter (criminal) if you make off intending not to pay for the fuel.

Providing you leave your name and address it's a civil matter and the petrol station must take you to small claims court if you fail to repay.

If you fill up and drive off = criminal
Forget wallet, leave details and leave = civil, even if you subsequently lose your job, run out of money and are not able to pay in a timely manner.

I would guess the marina is not unlawfully detaining OP in this case because they're probably not required to operate the lock on any particular schedule. If you were to stay one night, go to leave and were unable to pay due to a TSB-style IT meltdown causing all your cards to be rejected then I think the marina should be obliged to let you leave, because it's still a civil debt.

 

[Seven Spades]

Ok back to the original question. If you have work done to something you own and your payment is overdue then the provider of the work can take a lien and in the case of a boat can arrest the boat and chain it. If you think about what happened here you were not detained but you were refused a service untill you paid, the service was operating the lock and on that basis I think it is legal.

If for example you visited a normal marina the marina would not be allowed to padlock boat to the pontoons until the owners paid. If on the otherhand you paid the marina to antifoul the boat and put it on its berth and you didn't pay then they coudl establish a lien and padlock the boat if the bill became overdue and you cut off the lock, that would be a criminal offence (good luck getting plod to actually do anything about it though).

 

[Sandy]

Do we need to send Red Cross parcels?

 

[Mark-1]

Morning all,

Last summer, we arrived very late at the Lady Bee Marina, went through the lock and intended to leave the following morning at 4 o’clock, Sadly, on attempting to leave we were told we could not use the lock as the bill had not been paid and the office would not be open until 10 am.

After approximately an hour of messing around trying to get an Internet connection, we were able to pay online and allowed to leave 3 hours later than hoped.

But it raises an interesting question. Are they actually allowed to do that or is this unlawful detention / unlawful impending of the boat.

If we have not been able to leave until after 10 the weather window would’ve meant another five days at lady bee with a cost that we should not have expected to have.

I understand that people stay and leave without paying, but is this course of action by Marinas around the UK actually legal?

Dunno about the legality but my boat was held hostage in Chi Marina over covid and it's just one more reason never to keep your boat behind a lock gate.

 

[Bilgediver]

This is why in the good old days the skippers of a commercial ship had a safe full of cash. Cannot get clearance to leave a port till All dues etc settled. This can include stores and bunkers. These procedures are followed world wide.
Same applies to aircraft. Cannot take of till landing dues and fuel etc payed for. Just imagine the procedures during Covid following a refuelling stop during an international flight where the credit card might be in the cockpit and rules have to be followed for it to be used ashore .
Most of these charges are settled by local agents where they have been appointed

 

[Iliade]

I bought a boat which was berthed in Portishead with fees paid up until the end of the month. When I went to leave (with my destination very close to the Ladybee) I was forced to pay the last fortnight's dues, thankfully the HO was open at the time, before they would let me out.

Apparently they had refunded the original owner the dues paid in advance on my assuming ownership. As if that ever happened before, anywhere else in any of god's harbours!!

 

[greeny]

Arrive late, leave early happens down here in Portugal as well. That's why they have no electric and water on the waiting pontoons. Used to be a favourite place for a free top up for some people but not any more. Can't say I blame the marina for doing this. Lost count of the number of dinghies hidden tied between moored boats with numerous 20ltr water containers being filled on the fly. I've even seen dinghies with what looks like the house batteries in being charged from the pontoon sockets while the owners go for a long meal and drinks.

 

[ylop]

I doubt it. A petrol startion cannot detain you if you fill up and find you've forgotten your wallet, nor can they retain valuable goods (eg a watch) as surety. In that case istr as long as they have your registration and name - and again istr they cannot demand your address you may go on a promise to pay

I wonder if anyone has tested that in recent times. It seems likely to me that refusing to provide your address would be viewed by the boys in blue as potentially indicative of intent, especially if the registration is not registered to you… certainly a petrol station is likely to report you as having “made off” if you tell them you aren’t providing your address - and you run the risk of being significantly inconvenienced for trying to be smart.

The OP can avoid the issue simply by checking in when he arrives and paying then, or as he did, finding the online option. He does say he arrived very late and was trying to leave very early - and it might just be how he described it but he doesn’t actually suggest he tried to pay anywhere before locking out - perhaps he’d have got a more helpful response if he had explained his problem finding someone to pay to the keeper BEFORE asking to leave.

I think he’s missed the point that if the lock was only manned say 0800-2200 he’d also have been trapped. Getting in a froth about your rights when you need someone’s cooperation to leave seems like a dumb way to waste time.