Independence | Upadates & Cruising

[Piers]

When we first sea-trialed the Fleming it was a flat calm day in the Solent. The Yarmouth lifeboat was hammering towards us and passed reasonably close on our port side. Bracing for the effect of its steep and pronounced wake i shouted to everyone to hang-on. Did the Fleming roll? Not at all. That alone encouraged my wife to agree to the purchase.

Since then, the stabs remain on at all times. Even on calm days if I dare turn them off a voice will soon drift up to the pilot house, 'Put them back on!' As has been said, until you've tried them, you really don't understand the benefit and for me it wasn't just being comfy, it was that my wife started enjoying boating and coming cruising with me.

The dream came true.

 

[superheat6k]

Wow what a thread and adventure Robin has had. As one who thought his initial threads and posts suggested he was something of a Walt he has certainly proven me wrong and for that, Sir, I salute your achievement, and apologise if I misjudged you.

Obviously the first taste of more seriously rough weather has left Robin with a very bitter taste, and he has been left doubting his boat, which is so sad. I am not sure this boat is the ideal choice for his chosen location, unless he wants a water caravan, and with a couple bridges, less than amenable official staff, plus now the nonsense of the BSS headache, all coming to the fore I can understand that the reality now dawning is not helping the bitter taste off Dover going away.

Norlfolk and the Broads is a lovely place, but IMHO not for this boat. I'm not sure what Robin's links to Norfolk are, but it is a longer train ride from London than say Portsmouth or Southampton, where open sea access to sheltered waters is the norm. It was a shame he simply blasted on by through the Solent, and didn't stop a while.

The post purchase depression should pass, and I hope you grow to love your boat. So she's a bit rolley, but those were some seas you took on, and on my first offshore trip I ended up in my bed thinking sitting under an apple tree was probably a better option at the time.

 

[henryf]

I've just skimmed through the thread and very much relate to Nigel's post #204.

The whole stabilisation debate is a rather bizarre distraction for me and probably best dealt with by way of a separate thread which London could choose to participate in or ignore.

My interest is the journey and descisions surrounding it. I read the thread in much the same way I watch videos of people free climbing tall buildings or balancing atop construction cranes high above the rest of the world.

Like others I've been boating for a while and have bits of paper which supposedly mean I know what I'm doing and can look after the paying customers who float with me. The journey went against every fibre of those bits of paper. Assumptions were made which I wouldn't have made. What is it they say, assumption is the mother of all.......

The fuel bug problem for instance. How many reports have we read where professional services are engaged, treatment added to the tanks and yet bugger me a few hours later filters start clogging up, engines die and the writer is forced to limp home or be towed. Bad enough in calm seas but in a howling gale in the middle of winter.....

Delivery trips are often by their very nature a journey into the unknown. A newly acquired vessel being moved from A to B. All the more reason for seeking out perfect weather conditions. Though qualified to do so I wouldn't have taken on that job. I know what it feels like when things start to go wrong at sea and that makes me all the more keen to try and avoid it happening. The last thing I want to do is set off knowing the odds are stacking against me. I also know what it's like to have people break down physically and emotionally and have felt the cold shiver and hot flush of responsibility. I can feel it now as I type.

If I look back through my boating history there are times particularly in the early days when I blush thinking how close I came to disaster. This thread has re-kindled those thoughts.

I wish you well on the broads and have no issue with your descision to plonk a craft of such size or ability on tranquil back waters. Fill your boots and eek out every ounce of pleasure from what is a frightfully short life in the scheme of things. But don't risk cutting it even shorter or making others cut short their lives trying to save you.

Henry

 

[Greg2]

I have watched / read various elements of the threads relating to Londonrascals boat purchase and subsequent trip but haven’t followed it closely. A personal thing perhaps but I am not really a fan of the whole self-PR thing. Not criticising, it just isn’t my bag but then I dont like the celebrity culture either so maybe I am just an old curmudgeon

I tend to agree with henryf and Nigel. I have been around boats on and off since I was a kid. I served in the RN and gained some skills and experience relevant to my hobby. I have Yachtmaster (Offshore) for power and ICC for both power and sail and I am involved in the oversight of in marine operations with commercially coded small vessels but I don’t consider myself an expert. You never stop learning in the marine environment and listening to others experiences is a key element of that. I think the listening point has already been made.

To my mind a good seaman is a cautious and well -prepared seaman and from what I saw the trip was a tad questionable to put it mildly. Sure, RN experienced guys were undoubtedly a help but naval service isn’t neccesarily a panacea. It really depends what they did in the mob - I learned seamanship skills including boat handling in heavy weather but I didn’t learn how to navigate other than pilotage. Okay, so being at sea and operating in heavy conditions is common to most RN people but doing it in a well maintained and equipped warship alongside seasoned professionals is a world away from doing so in an unfamilair small boat with a crew of mixed abilities and experience. Oh and submarines tend to dodge the weather (sorry Nigel)

Thankfully nothing went seriously awry and fair play to some involved as they clearly held it all together. In the case of the ex-Navy guys they appear to have played a key role so their experience appears to have been very relevant. Had it gone wrong then of course public resources would have been required to co-ordinate any assistance/rescue and a charity to which I and many others subscribe would have had to do the necessary.

There has been comment about what has been said on here and the supportive following on the Norfolk Broads forum. With the latter it is probably worth bearing in mind that it is a group of mainly inland boaters - sure there are also some seagoing boaters amongst them but they are not in the majority. On here people are primarily seagoing boaters so there are probably different perspectives between the two groups. One has, perhaps, seen it as a marvellous adventure to be celebrated whereas the other has maybe viewed it through the lense of spending more time at sea and perhaps having a deeper understanding of the issues and risks. Just a thought

As for keeping a boat like a Trader on the Broads it is worth saying that the southern rivers are home to many seagoing boats, particularly Brundall. Indeed, it has been our base and we were able to cruise the southern rivers in our Broom 41 as well as taking coastal trips and going across to Holland. Robin’s Trader is on the upper end in terms of size but if he chooses, he will be able to cruise the Yare and the Waveney with the only obstacles being the bridge at Beccles that will preclude access to the mooring basin and the bridge at St Olaves that will preclude a shorter trip between Oulton Broad and Breydon Water. The Northern rivers won’t be an option due to the bridges at Gt Yarmouth - not a great loss IMHO - they are undoubtedly more picturesque but plagued with hire boats and the attendant risk of your boat being bounced off. Not all hire boaters are a risk of course but there are enough who don’t have sufficient experience to not be a risk.

On the impact of the trip on how Robin feels about the boat after his experiences, I would echo what others have said. We had a particularly traumatic experience on a trip to Holland which necessitated turning back an hour into the return trip and having to collect the boat the following weekend. We weren’t on speaking terms with the boat for three months but we eventually made up and continued with our fantastic hobby

Overall, Robin has had an incredible experience that many leisure motor boaters will not match. The learning involved has undoubtedly been significant and perhaps the satisfaction of having ‘pushed the envelope’ and succeeded is something t be enjoyed. If I see him in the Yare in Brundall maybe a mardle over a beer will be interesting

 

[MrB]

This is from the Trans At guy that got ill after 45 mins "Most of my sea experience has been in rag and sticks and this was by far the worst conditions I have experienced." That was from a very experienced sailor. I dropped a post on the broads forum asking Griff if he would give us a first hand view of the delivery trip, you are only going to get the full story from the guy that actually did it after all. Balls of steel spring to mind lol. :encouragement:

Edited for clarity and not to appear as "mocking" as that wasn't the point of the post.

 

[MrB]

Just updating if LR doesn't have the time.

"Just back home from a weekend onboard Independence - lots to sort out, just begun to edit the Blog for this adventure, I am not sure I am happy about the footage I have captured but it is what it is, new camera, new mic set-up bound to be teething problems.

I am not regretting buying Independence, but sometimes I can share a little too much 'in the moment' and people hang on to everything I have said as if gospel, but actually half an hour later I am back to myself. I will say this, there is not the emotional bond and feeling I thought I might have to the boat, she is lovely but she is a real social boat and you need that element of people onboard and being part of the experience - even if just a cruise down the river - without it it is a very large space and can be a little overwhelming when their are only two of you and having to literally shout out from the back cabin tot he front to be heard.

As to YBW people take it all too seriously I am going to deal with that as well but that really is just the side show and keeps me interested reading peoples latest opinions about stabilisers and risks."

 

[MapisM]

she is a real social boat and you need that element of people onboard

I often disagreed with LR views in this thread, but on this specific point he is absolutely spot on.
The very first reason why I almost bought a Trader 575 is that among all the mid 50 footers that I've seen, her layout is hands down the most "social".
All considered, I don't think I will regret not having finalized that purchase, but whenever I will be out with a dozen of friends onboard, I'm sure that the T575 cockpit, bigger than in most 80' boats, will spring to my mind! :encouragement:

 

[Portofino]

Just updating if LR doesn't have the time.

s[/B]."

Take a look @ the last few pages 81-84
http://forum.norfolkbroadsnetwork.com/topic/14243-independence-updates-maintenance-care/?page=84

Here’s my post #222

Back to Robins trip
Just a few thoughts —- in no particular order

Full safety gear
Done in legs
Day light only
Safety cop out plan c + d ports along the way
No night work
Crew rota
Long W/ E
Insight of land / never far away
Excess Nac gear - backed up
Radar
Food / water
Good nights rest in a Port
Fuel system professional overhaul B4
Professional eng ck + spares package B4
Serviceable tender ( as well as LR )
Crew leader (s) experienced familiar with heavy weather
Working VHF
Shore power every PM in lieu of the geny

What’s not to like or criticise?

Oh weather - forgot - agree would have made the DELIVERY trip more enjoyable ——- buts that’s rarther subjective.
Was a bumpy trip and the boat rolled a bit - so what - So Robin and the team collectively - went down ONE of his alternative plan lists regarding the crewing .

Boat arrived on time at the 1 st Bridge into the Broads ——

—————————/—————————————————————


There’s been talk of “ jealousy “ recently , I have to say the thought of the green eyed monster did crop up when I read some of the posts ^^^ above( on HERE not the NBN ) but up to now resisted raising he subject .

Kinda thinly veiled advice that was in fact criticism- some of it unnecessary and mocking . I realise there’s a fine balance but I think some of you have crossed the line ,when you actually sit down and rationally look @ the planning and the other 6 P ,s left that went into this .

I don,t know or care really why some of you have got so so hung up on him ,but as a dustbin diagnosis ( in the absence of another rational explanation) “ jealousy “ keeps cropping up .
I know I will get flamed for saying this -above ^^^ - I just say it as I see it .
but to quote Griff on page 84 NBN thread

“ AND “ :encouragement:

 

[Bouba]

I am not sure what the fuss is all about, here or the NBN, it’s a Forum, you don’t have to solicit advice, by definition we can all discuss the topic that any member brings up.
As for stating the obvious, that taking a boat out in adverse conditions is not always wise, that should not be met with insults or foot stamping.
And finally, soul baring and navel gazing, are great...in the Lounge. Personally speaking the Fred drift to stabilizers made it interesting.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Take a look @ the last few pages 81-84
http://forum.norfolkbroadsnetwork.com/topic/14243-independence-updates-maintenance-care/?page=84

Here’s my post #222

Back to Robins trip
Just a few thoughts —- in no particular order

Full safety gear
Done in legs
Day light only
Safety cop out plan c + d ports along the way
No night work
Crew rota
Long W/ E
Insight of land / never far away
Excess Nac gear - backed up
Radar
Food / water
Good nights rest in a Port
Fuel system professional overhaul B4
Professional eng ck + spares package B4
Serviceable tender ( as well as LR )
Crew leader (s) experienced familiar with heavy weather
Working VHF
Shore power every PM in lieu of the geny

What’s not to like or criticise?

Oh weather - forgot - agree would have made the DELIVERY trip more enjoyable ——- buts that’s rarther subjective.
Was a bumpy trip and the boat rolled a bit - so what - So Robin and the team collectively - went down ONE of his alternative plan lists regarding the crewing .

Boat arrived on time at the 1 st Bridge into the Broads ——

—————————/—————————————————————


There’s been talk of “ jealousy “ recently , I have to say the thought of the green eyed monster did crop up when I read some of the posts ^^^ above( on HERE not the NBN ) but up to now resisted raising he subject .

Kinda thinly veiled advice that was in fact criticism- some of it unnecessary and mocking . I realise there’s a fine balance but I think some of you have crossed the line ,when you actually sit down and rationally look @ the planning and the other 6 P ,s left that went into this .

I don,t know or care really why some of you have got so so hung up on him ,but as a dustbin diagnosis ( in the absence of another rational explanation) “ jealousy “ keeps cropping up .
I know I will get flamed for saying this -above ^^^ - I just say it as I see it .
but to quote Griff on page 84 NBN thread

“ AND “ :encouragement:

Ah, so now I get it, you were just jealous that some of us have drones....it’s all starting to make sense now.
:
It’s clear to me now that Mapism craves IPS and Oldgit really hates not having outdrives

 

[londonrascal]

An update to recent posts

 

[BruceK]

The written medium is a bit ambiguous at times, you presented far better in the video. I will confess I've rather warmed to you. Mind you, you are still an oddball in my book, but FWIW well done, and no, I still think you are a risk taker, but kudos, you pulled it off.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Thanks for the update - good video quality, not sure what camera you have but does it have image stabilisation?

 

[londonrascal]

The written medium is a bit ambiguous at times, you presented far better in the video. I will confess I've rather warmed to you. Mind you, you are still an oddball in my book, but FWIW well done, and no, I still think you are a risk taker, but kudos, you pulled it off.

Thanks, I am a bit crazy, hence being a Rascal all my life. So far so good but room for things to go pear shaped and will just have to be ready for them if that happens.


Thanks for the update - good video quality, not sure what camera you have but does it have image stabilisation?

Nope just on a table tripod from Poundland

 

[Pinnacle]

Good vid! You have no need to explain or justify your actions to me. I hope the boat brings you much joy - wherever you choose to take her. :encouragement:

 

[Tradewinds]

I'll second that.
Well done Robin for both the trip and the video explanation.

Good vid! You have no need to explain or justify your actions to me. I hope the boat brings you much joy - wherever you choose to take her. :encouragement:

 

[petem]

Robin, you say in the video that you can't recall actually coming on and seeking advice. Can I just remind you that your first post was titled "Motorboat Newbie Seeks Advice"!

Here you go....

Firstly, an introduction:

While I am a newbie to this Forum, I have participated for several years now in various Forums and Facebook Groups that concentrate on the Norfolk Broads, and produce videos on my popular You Tube channel ‘The Captain’s Blog’ which covers my various travels on the Broads.

I also own with three other syndicate members Broad Ambition a 1966 Teak 40ft cruiser moored on the Norfolk Broads.

But why join this Forum?

Well, I’d like some advice frankly because I may be stepping up from river cruising to also owning a large ‘sea going’ boat and I’ve narrowed this down to two options: A Fairline 50 or a Princess 55 – aged from say 1988 to 1992.

No problem though!

 

[Dorset Dan]

I've gotten to quite like your vids, have scrolled forward at times, but have been an interesting watch nonetheless and feel like I know your boat quite well now. Would never have really looked at a Trader before but they do have an appeal, a really useable amount of space. Keep it up, it brightens up these winter evenings!

 

[BroadAmbition]

Good vid Robin as per the norm. Well, that certainly cleared up a few points though hasn't it? not that you were duty bound to of course

I see Petem quoted you as seeking advice - which is correct but that was on a previous totally separate thread. I have not seen you seeking advice on this thread or the previous one leading up to this 'Updates and Cruising' Imho, it's good when folk offer advice. It's also good that they don't go off in a huff if their well intentioned un-asked for advice is not adhered to either! At least we have proved one thing after the delivery weekend afloat. Traders can survive in heavy seas, with a large crane / rib mounted topsides WITHOUT stabs fitted. Of course with them she would no doubt have rolled less, but seeing as I doubt 'Indy' will ever venture out in seas as big as that ever again, do you really need them? No of course you don't. They are a nice after market toy but not at that price nor compulsory. Nor were they compulsory on the Tracker or P2000 class in the RN either, and we had those PB's rolling around all over the shop with green water on decks with a lot higher freeboard than Indy has. Anyroadup, I continue to look forward to the forthcoming Captains Blogs of the delivery weekend both here and over on the NBN. I notice your chin is up - Good. Keep it that way. Oh and looking forward to seeing you next either onboard Indy or Broad Ambition

Griff

 

[benjenbav]

imho and fwiw etc, Robin showed considerable leadership and strength of character in putting the team together and also recognising when it wasn't for him. The team got the boat home on time, in one piece and without a fuss. No emergency services were troubled.

February in the English Channel is never going to be everyone's cup of tea, but there you go. I suspect it would've cost about the same to truck it but where's the fun in that?

I used to own an Aquastar that rolled like a pig and shipped so much water over the bow that it was easier to drive on radar than try to look out of the front window. You get used to it. Stabs are also fabulous.

All boat choices are mistakes... probably. :encouragement: