Planning ahead for the big retirement cruise

[oldgit]

There is another way to look at it....hire boats from large fleets lack for nothing...they have mechanics and workshops as well as their own facilities for lifting the boats on a regular basis and a maintenance routine. It’s after they pass into private hands the neglect begins...perhaps not by the first private owner who may baby it, but by the time it’s changed hands a few times. Of course it could get lucky and be picked up by someone who will completely restore her...

The bits inside may have been replaced over the years but lets just say that after a lifetime of beginners bashing the hell out of the boat the structural integrity of the hull may have suffered.
One particular Broads hire boat was described as a "bargain needing refurbishment" to bring back to its former glory the price was not exactly cheap.
Doubt there was a single part of the hull that did not have some impact damage, from outside it looked merely knocked about, internal inspection behind cupboards an lockers etc revealed stringers cracked away from hull.
The overall impression being that the boat had been used as fender between two battleships in a very heavy sea.

 

[Bouba]

The bits inside may have been replaced over the years but lets just say that after a lifetime of beginners bashing the hell out of the boat the structural integrity of the hull may have suffered.
One particular Broads hire boat was described as a "bargain needing refurbishment" to bring back to its former glory the price was not exactly cheap.
Doubt there was a single part of the hull that did not have some impact damage, from outside it looked merely knocked about, internal inspection behind cupboards an lockers etc revealed stringers cracked away from hull.
The overall impression being that the boat had been used as fender between two battleships in a very heavy sea.

Canal boats on the continent do take a bashing....I would have thought that it’s not so bad on an English canal...the narrowness doesn’t allow for a long run up to a good collision. But the hire boats in France for example, are purpose built to the company’s heavy duty specifications and well fendered....they also have repair facilities. At the end of the day they are all five knot collisions (although always against a concrete wall). But a buyer beware attitude should get you a sound hull...some of which have been in private hands for decades.
Their big advantage is room inside and out for easy living and the ability to get under bridges (another source of collision)...but if I wanted a second hand river/canal boat... I wouldn’t be scared off by a ex-rental. I wouldn’t go to sea in it either (except a very calm day out on the Med)

 

[[199490]]

I wouldn’t go to sea in it either (except a very calm day out on the Med)

I certainly wouldnt want to take the sort of shore boats I've used on French canals out to sea. From memory many of the companies forbid it. I did take a Leboat Horizon onto the Etang du Thau which is a saltwater lake exposed to Med weather and it was very, very bouncy. Wife was seasick. I'd also be very wary on the big rivers like the Rhône and Seine as the winds can get high and the wakes from the big commercial barges are huge

 

[Bouba]

I certainly wouldnt want to take the sort of shore boats I've used on French canals out to sea. From memory many of the companies forbid it. I did take a Leboat Horizon onto the Etang du Thau which is a saltwater lake exposed to Med weather and it was very, very bouncy. Wife was seasick. I'd also be very wary on the big rivers like the Rhône and Seine as the winds can get high and the wakes from the big commercial barges are huge

The Rhône in full flow is a very scary place....if you lose control you will hit multiple bridge pilings at extremely high speed

 

[[199490]]

and well fendered

This is something to really consider if you are using a boat not designed for canals on a canal, particularly the French ones with big concrete sides. There is an interesting episode in the SailingOptions videos where it is damaged because it swings in a lock because its sides are very curved compared to a boat designed for canals. Some of the boats I looked at had little or nno rubber on the sides, the Aquador has a reasonable one but I have increased the number of fenders per side from 4 to 6, bought a vertical bow fender in addition to the horseshoe one it had and another long one for the stern. Also bought a plank as recommended on a couple of videos.
Having said that, I've just had my first time docking with the remote for the thrusters and it is great. Still need a little practice killing forward speed as I had to use the wireless kill on the engine which i dont want to be normal practice

 

[Alicatt]

I certainly wouldnt want to take the sort of shore boats I've used on French canals out to sea. From memory many of the companies forbid it. I did take a Leboat Horizon onto the Etang du Thau which is a saltwater lake exposed to Med weather and it was very, very bouncy. Wife was seasick. I'd also be very wary on the big rivers like the Rhône and Seine as the winds can get high and the wakes from the big commercial barges are huge

The Normal ships (what they call the large barges) on the canals here are limited to a slower speed than us pleasure craft, so the was is not that great, but you do get the occasional one that likes to press on and it's wash will sweep the banks clear. As speed is measured as speed over the ground then if they are heading into a strong flow you can get larger wash off them.

We were at the Onder de Brug restaurant at the Albert Kanaal near Maastricht yesterday and noting the mooring posts and steps along the quay sides we thought "next time we take the boat" however when we went down to the canal and seen how the wash from the barges impacted the concrete sides we changed our minds, the wash would echo back and forth across the canal causing quite the swell and for quite a long time too.
Restaurant, Feestlocatie, Trouwfeest | Onder de Brug
There is a WW2 bunker there where the civilians sheltered while the German paratroops were assaulting Fort Eben Emael which is just along the canal from there, we arrived just too late to go round the bunker and museum, there is also a binnenvaart experience hosted by the Vlammsewaterweg about the use of the canals.

We have been trying to get there since we first seen the restaurant on a canal trip in 2019 with our grandson.

 

[efanton]

Having completed 2 ex-hire boat rebuilds I have come to the conclusion that buying the best condition boat that you can afford is probably the most cost effective route and it’s certainly a lot easier and you also get to spend your time boating. A bit of an annual refit / update - fine, but no more rebuilds.

The problem you have is that seagoing motorboats are expensive to buy and maintain. Seagoing yachts are not ideal for shallow inland waterways for a variety of reasons. Low powered inland boats are not suitable for serious sea crossing.

In saying that my dad knew a guy who bought an ex-hire seamaster 30 with a single engine and crossed Irish Sea to UK and sailed around the south coast and across to France, coming back to Ireland some years later. He then bought an ex-hire single engine broom continental and did it again. I saw the boat for sale in France many years later so he made it anyway. He did say that he had to wait for long periods for weather windows to do the sea crossings.

I have considered this already. Part of the reason why plan A was to go for a shallow draft sailboat and demast it. this plan is still on the cards, it just means additional expense transferring by road from the shannon to the sea.

My thought process for the power boat was to buy a boat that was reasonably economical to run, could push to at least 8 to 10 knots minimum (the big rivers on the continent can be 4 knots against you if going up-river after heavy rains). That more or less cuts out all the 40 to 60 hp powerboats available.
What I am trying to determine in this thread is where that sweet spot is where I have enough power to safely cross the Irish sea and English channel in a reasonable time, (less than 15 hours max for the Irish sea as I would be looking for an ideal weather window and we all know the Irish Sea and the channel can be fickle and weather radically change overnight),

And that's where inexperience and lack of knowledge regarding powerboats kicks in and why I am here. My gut feeling at the moment (inexperienced as I am) tells me I should be looking a 80+ hp or a boat that can cruise easily at 10 knots or more. But what margin of error that would give me, or indeed if this is even close to reasonable I have no idea. Hence me asking for your advice. On a sail boat you can simply drop the hook, hove to, and wait it out, on a powerboat you dont have that option,

 

[efanton]

….. and as the OP has a minuscule budget, will need to compromise somewhere (in many areas) to find a suitable boat within budget. Hence ex rental fleet could be one way of getting an eminently suitable boat - if somewhat bumped around the edges - within budget.

Ex rental is not a problem for me. If it is structural sound, need a little TLC thats not a problem. What I am not going to do is replace bulkheads, repair hulls, repair decks or do major overhauls on engines. These are where boats become money pits and a complete waste of money, Better to spend more initially for a better boat. If it needs rewiring, better plumbing (it's almost inevitable I will have to expand fresh water and grey water storage) and better galley facilities that's not an issue. Whatever boat I buy I know it will need a major refit or overhaul, as the regulations for the canal network on the continent are in some ways stricter. I have budgeted for that in addition to the initial cost and budget for general 'fixes'. For example VHF radios by law have to have AIS which I doubt ex rentals will have, Gas storage and fitting for galley will probably have to be different, tenders and lines will have to be added, that list goes on and on and each week as I go through each countries regulations it grows.

Problem is for ex hire boats is the hire companies will buy boats powered for the use those boats will encounter and not spend one penny more (basic economics and if they are not doing that they're doing it wrong) . So inevitably most of the ex rental fleet will be of limits not because of the general condition of the boat but because of power. Which brings us back to the beginning post. What should be my minimum power or cruise speed requirement, or can you suggest a modestly price powerboat that you would feel comfortable in crossing the sea.

 

[Refueler]

" On a sail boat you can simply drop the hook, hove to, and wait it out, on a powerboat you dont have that option,"

?? Why not ?

 

[dunedin]

…

Problem is for ex hire boats is the hire companies will buy boats powered for the use those boats will encounter and not spend one penny more (basic economics and if they are not doing that they're doing it wrong) . So inevitably most of the ex rental fleet will be of limits not because of the general condition of the boat but because of power. Which brings us back to the beginning post. What should be my minimum power or cruise speed requirement, or can you suggest a modestly price powerboat that you would feel comfortable in crossing the sea.

But if you buy a boat with more power for the sea crossings 99% of the time you will be spaying more for bigger engines which are running below efficiency in an inland cruise. And potentially more expensive to service and maintain etc.
Crossing the Irish Sea at 6 knots won’t take long - and easily calculated time wise. But your call.

 

[Ferris]

I have considered this already. Part of the reason why plan A was to go for a shallow draft sailboat and demast it. this plan is still on the cards, it just means additional expense transferring by road from the shannon to the sea.

My thought process for the power boat was to buy a boat that was reasonably economical to run, could push to at least 8 to 10 knots minimum (the big rivers on the continent can be 4 knots against you if going up-river after heavy rains). That more or less cuts out all the 40 to 60 hp powerboats available.
What I am trying to determine in this thread is where that sweet spot is where I have enough power to safely cross the Irish sea and English channel in a reasonable time, (less than 15 hours max for the Irish sea as I would be looking for an ideal weather window and we all know the Irish Sea and the channel can be fickle and weather radically change overnight),

And that's where inexperience and lack of knowledge regarding powerboats kicks in and why I am here. My gut feeling at the moment (inexperienced as I am) tells me I should be looking a 80+ hp or a boat that can cruise easily at 10 knots or more. But what margin of error that would give me, or indeed if this is even close to reasonable I have no idea. Hence me asking for your advice. On a sail boat you can simply drop the hook, hove to, and wait it out, on a powerboat you dont have that option,

Also sailboats are useless inland. They lack interior volume, are underpowered and you’re sitting out in the elements using a stick to steer the thing. Sailboats are great at sailing and have natural redundancy obviously but you won’t need that inland.

To get a 30-40ft motorboat to do 8-10 knots I’d going to require a lot more than 80hp, probably 4 times that as a minimum. I don’t think you have the budget. Not sure it’s required either. Most riverboats max out at hull speed which is 6-7knots and there’s plenty of people using them on European inland waterways.

IMO buy a boat (buy well) in Ireland and do your thing. Get the right riverboat and do the Canals to/from Dublin and even do the Barrow navigation (on my bucket list but my boats too high). Then either sell it or ship it to Europe.

 

[efanton]

IMO buy a boat (buy well) in Ireland and do your thing. Get the right riverboat and do the Canals to/from Dublin and even do the Barrow navigation (on my bucket list but my boats too high). Then either sell it or ship it to Europe.

That's something I have not considered. Shipping a boat to France is going to be expensive, BUT it means I don't have to worry about having a boat that's seaworthy. This is a once in a lifetime journey (tour around Europe that is) and it was always my intention to keep the boat for use on the Irish waterways system once I returned. Will have to do some research on that to see if it's feasible for me. If the cost is less or equal to than the extra I would be paying for a boat suitable for the sea crossing, then its definitely worth considering. Will mean missing out on the coastal hops that I was sort of looking forward to, but beggars can't be choosers

With regard using a sailboat, I see no problem and there's no need for it to do 8 to 10 knots. I thought I only needed that extra power for the sea crossing if a bought a motor boat rather than a sailboat. A 30 foot sailboat has loads of internal room for a solo sailor. A 35 foot sailboat would probably be bigger than I need but the storage space would be useful as long as I did not reduce its draught. The only issue with the sailboat option is the draught issue. Shannon Entrance has a limit of 1.5 metres and some of the canals in France that I was considering have a 1.8 metre limit.


I have backpacked a lot of Europe when I was a bit younger, but even then you miss so much as you are getting trains or flights and missing everything in between. Would be nice to actually see the countryside, small town and villages. When I was younger I had considered doing a 6 month cycling holiday to do exactly that but I don't think would be capable of that now. Touring on a boat appeals to me because I have always liked boats and it's a slow way to travel which is exactly what I want. Spent a lot of time (probably 200 miles) on a friends narrowboat in England when I was living there so I have enough experience of canals and know exactly what to expect. I think some of the commenters are under the impression that this is going to be some sort of luxury cruise in a top of the line powerboat. Far from it, A small boat that's been fully overhauled and refitted appropriately before I leave is all I need.

 

[efanton]

Beachcraft 1050 for sale Ireland, Beachcraft boats for sale, Beachcraft used boat sales, Beachcraft Motor Boats For Sale Dutch steel cruiser 35’ - Apollo Duck
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THis is the type of boat I was initially considering. Not enough internal photo's to tell how much work is required, but it looks structurally sound. If I was ready to go in the next 6 months I would probably be arranging a viewing. Unfortunately I wont be going for another 2 years

 

[harvey38]

Beachcraft 1050 for sale Ireland, Beachcraft boats for sale, Beachcraft used boat sales, Beachcraft Motor Boats For Sale Dutch steel cruiser 35’ - Apollo Duck
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THis is the type of boat I was initially considering. Not enough internal photo's to tell how much work is required, but it looks structurally sound. If I was ready to go in the next 6 months I would probably be arranging a viewing. Unfortunately I wont be going for another 2 years

A nice looking vessel, we looked at a number of steel craft but not knowing much about the pitfalls of steel (if there are any) we stuck to GRP. The interior looks like it was built in the 70's, not 90's but that's only cosmetic and easily fixed.

Plenty of internal space which is important, particularly on days when the weather in inclement and the same with twin helms and exterior space to make best use of good weather. 80HP would give you good fuel economy and fine for most cruising but sensible flow/tidal planning would be required for sea work and the bigger waterways.

A sensible choice to fulfil your dream ☺✔

 

[Refueler]

Beachcraft 1050 for sale Ireland, Beachcraft boats for sale, Beachcraft used boat sales, Beachcraft Motor Boats For Sale Dutch steel cruiser 35’ - Apollo Duck
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THis is the type of boat I was initially considering. Not enough internal photo's to tell how much work is required, but it looks structurally sound. If I was ready to go in the next 6 months I would probably be arranging a viewing. Unfortunately I wont be going for another 2 years

That I like !

 

[Alicatt]

Beachcraft 1050 for sale Ireland, Beachcraft boats for sale, Beachcraft used boat sales, Beachcraft Motor Boats For Sale Dutch steel cruiser 35’ - Apollo Duck
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THis is the type of boat I was initially considering. Not enough internal photo's to tell how much work is required, but it looks structurally sound. If I was ready to go in the next 6 months I would probably be arranging a viewing. Unfortunately I wont be going for another 2 years

Nice looking boat, quite a standard design of river cruisers you see here in various lengths from 8m to 13m and unusual in that it has a double bed in the aft cabin, a good lot of those boats have twin beds against the sides leaving a bigger open area in the cabin.
Most of the boats in our yacht club have a cruising speed of about 14km/h (7.5knt) and a max of 18km/h (9.7knt) and are displacement boats and we have at least 3 like the above boat in various lengths with the smallest one for sale just now but it needs a good bit of work internally and the side decks are too small for us to consider it.

 

[Greg2]

Beachcraft 1050 for sale Ireland, Beachcraft boats for sale, Beachcraft used boat sales, Beachcraft Motor Boats For Sale Dutch steel cruiser 35’ - Apollo Duck
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THis is the type of boat I was initially considering. Not enough internal photo's to tell how much work is required, but it looks structurally sound. If I was ready to go in the next 6 months I would probably be arranging a viewing. Unfortunately I wont be going for another 2 years

A steel boat (the Dutch build a lot) like that is ideal for your plans. Get one that is able to go to sea and you can do the crossings you want to in the right conditions. An 80-100hp engine is fine to push a boat like that along at displacement speed and may even punch a tide but careful passage planning can reduce the need to do that. We have met several Dutch people who regularly cruise the coast in their displacement hulled steel boats as well as inland. Just be prepared to roll in a beam sea!

Also worth saying that as soon as you a take a steel boat salt side you will see rust appearing very quickly so keep wire brushes and a pot of primer aboard! Also, when buying, try to get a surveyor who has experience of steel boats. Generally it is corrosion from the inside in inaccessible spaces that is your enemy.

On the issue of shipping a boat of that size to France it is usually on a low loader and ferries. Getting prices isn’t difficult and it might be an option to transport to the south coast of the U.K. so that you can still do a shorter channel crossing. To give an illustration, at work we moved a 12m boat between N. Ireland and Norfolk for something like a couple of grand or perhaps a bit less - can’t recall the exact price and it was several years ago so prices will have increased. Shop around - there are a few boat hauliers in business.

 

[PlanB]

I recall reading on here years ago (and can't now find it) about a narrow boat that made it across the Channel.
Its windows were boarded up among other precautions, they picked a flat calm day and had a mobo escort all the way.
I don't think I would have done it, though

 

[harvey38]

I recall reading on here years ago (and can't now find it) about a narrow boat that made it across the Channel.
Its windows were boarded up among other precautions, they picked a flat calm day and had a mobo escort all the way.
I don't think I would have done it, though

Not a journey I would contemplate and I think insurance may be a hurdle to overcome.

 

[V1701]

My Colvic Watson 34 is 12 tons or thereabouts & has one 65hp engine. When I bought her she was on the Norfolk Broads, we did Lowestoft to Brighton in about 32 hours non-stop, using about a gallon per hour. Tide with us some of the time, against some of the time. It was a bit rolly at times but far from uncomfortable because we chose a calm weather window. Very enjoyable trip. I'd have no hesitation whatsoever crossing the Irish sea or over to France in the right weather in her. I think you're worrying too much about the sea crossings...