Planning ahead for the big retirement cruise

[Refueler]

My Colvic Watson 34 is 12 tons or thereabouts & has one 65hp engine. When I bought her she was on the Norfolk Broads, we did Lowestoft to Brighton in about 32 hours non-stop, using about a gallon per hour. Tide with us some of the time, against some of the time. It was a bit rolly at times but far from uncomfortable because we chose a calm weather window. Very enjoyable trip. I'd have no hesitation whatsoever crossing the Irish sea or over to France in the right weather in her. I think you're worrying too much about the sea crossings...

My Sunrider 25 is 4 tons ... bilge keel ....

Crossed Baltic number of times .... it crossed Eng Ch .. Channel Isles ....

Perkins 4-99 38HP in her when I bought her ... then that was swapped out for a 2nd hand lump of rust 4-107 43HP ... 20yrs later that lump of rust looks same but purrs along never missing a bit.

Engine alone without sails : Cruise speed 4.5 - 5kts ..... 1.5ltrs / hr ..... max speed 9kts but fuel consumption then goes WOW ... probably about 5+ lts / hr

With sails : Cruise speed 4.5 - 5kts .... ~ 1.2 - 1.5lts /hr

With regard to tide punching ... having that boat at Langstone - then Chichester Hbrs - with the crazy tide races at entrance ... she punched through fine ...

TBH - I think OP may be putting too restrictive factors on the boat ....

I also have a 24ft MoBo... weight ? Maybe 1.5T ... has Volvo Penta 170HP 6cyl gasoline engine ... cruise at 14kts - burns about 10lts/hr ... open her up and you can burn over 25lts/hr .. estimated 25kts. Drop her to 7 - 8kts and in fact she can burn worse rate than the 14kts .. about 6 - 7lts/hr.

 

[efanton]

My Colvic Watson 34 is 12 tons or thereabouts & has one 65hp engine. When I bought her she was on the Norfolk Broads, we did Lowestoft to Brighton in about 32 hours non-stop, using about a gallon per hour. Tide with us some of the time, against some of the time. It was a bit rolly at times but far from uncomfortable because we chose a calm weather window. Very enjoyable trip. I'd have no hesitation whatsoever crossing the Irish sea or over to France in the right weather in her. I think you're worrying too much about the sea crossings...

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I admit I'm worried about the sea crossing. With a sailboat you can drop the hook and hove to if it gets a little too rough or you are unable to make progress, that's not a option with a motorboat as I understand it.
I know there's little risk of sinking in most powerboats, but its the idea of loss of control due to lack of power or being unable to push through a tidal flow that worries me. With any journey longer than 12 hours the tide is always going to be against you at some point,

Hence the initial question, how much power is enough to get you through if you encounter such a situation. If I was confident that when I set off (in a good weather windows of course) there is nothing that would prevent me from completing the journey then I would feel so much more comfortable. A boat being bounced around doesn't concern me, sailing on the west coast of Ireland you encounter that regularly, but with a sail boat if it gets a little too rough you can head out to sea rather than into land and sit it out there as the coast is the threat if you do not have enough power. I dont think you can do that with a powerboat and that is what worries me.

What was the cruising speed of your Colvic Watson 34 if you don't mind me asking?

 

[efanton]

My Sunrider 25 is 4 tons ... bilge keel ....

Crossed Baltic number of times .... it crossed Eng Ch .. Channel Isles ....

Perkins 4-99 38HP in her when I bought her ... then that was swapped out for a 2nd hand lump of rust 4-107 43HP ... 20yrs later that lump of rust looks same but purrs along never missing a bit.

Engine alone without sails : Cruise speed 4.5 - 5kts ..... 1.5ltrs / hr ..... max speed 9kts but fuel consumption then goes WOW ... probably about 5+ lts / hr

With sails : Cruise speed 4.5 - 5kts .... ~ 1.2 - 1.5lts /hr

With regard to tide punching ... having that boat at Langstone - then Chichester Hbrs - with the crazy tide races at entrance ... she punched through fine ...

TBH - I think OP may be putting too restrictive factors on the boat ....

I also have a 24ft MoBo... weight ? Maybe 1.5T ... has Volvo Penta 170HP 6cyl gasoline engine ... cruise at 14kts - burns about 10lts/hr ... open her up and you can burn over 25lts/hr .. estimated 25kts. Drop her to 7 - 8kts and in fact she can burn worse rate than the 14kts .. about 6 - 7lts/hr.

I would have no hesitation whatsoever taking your sunrider. Its a sailboat. But would you do the same journey relying on your engine only?

 

[Refueler]

I would have no hesitation whatsoever taking your sunrider. Its a sailboat. But would you do the same journey relying on your engine only?

Simple answer ? Yes.

I know my boats.

TBH - it appears you have a strange idea of what boats are. Of course some motor boats are just not designed for sea conditions .. but that's usually obvious by deign - big windows at front of superstructure ... small engines ... etc.
But many Motor boats are fully sea capable - yes they may buck about in seas a bit more than a keel equipped sailboat ... but to say "its a sailboat" is misleading.

Your dilema is that you are looking for a catch all boat .. a boat that can deliver all factors ... which will always be a compromise and master of none.

In your shoes - as I said at beginning - I would be looking at a 'Gentlemans' Motor Cruiser or a moderate lift keel sailboat.

 

[NBs]

Hi,

I myself have experience of sailing and motor boating over long distances. I currently motor yacht on a "trawler" type boat which doesn't use much fuel and I am happy to be sheltered from the weather, wind or rain.

A motor sailor could be the best solution for your budget in terms of cost and comfort. Personally,

I don't see the problem of tipping the mast when you practice doing it yourself. Many marinas have a mast tower and a helping hand to pair and you can get the mast toppled and erected for no extra money at best.

The mast can also be easily tipped in a suitable place with a truck-mounted hiop crane, taking just under half an hour each way.

Here's an idea about the boat, with the right weather window even a larger crossing will work, but the skipper should have enough experience both of the boat and of handling it in bad weather. You can find other boats, this was meant to be one perspective and an alternative, your budget is just very small, but you can still find a suitable boat.


https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1981-colvic-watson-32-8363461/

NBs

 

[V1701]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I admit I'm worried about the sea crossing. With a sailboat you can drop the hook and hove to if it gets a little too rough or you are unable to make progress, that's not a option with a motorboat as I understand it.
I know there's little risk of sinking in most powerboats, but its the idea of loss of control due to lack of power or being unable to push through a tidal flow that worries me. With any journey longer than 12 hours the tide is always going to be against you at some point,

Hence the initial question, how much power is enough to get you through if you encounter such a situation. If I was confident that when I set off (in a good weather windows of course) there is nothing that would prevent me from completing the journey then I would feel so much more comfortable. A boat being bounced around doesn't concern me, sailing on the west coast of Ireland you encounter that regularly, but with a sail boat if it gets a little too rough you can head out to sea rather than into land and sit it out there as the coast is the threat if you do not have enough power. I dont think you can do that with a powerboat and that is what worries me.

What was the cruising speed of your Colvic Watson 34 if you don't mind me asking?

Course not she'll do 6 knots easily enough but I know she's a bit overpropped so I don't give it the full beans. If there was any likelihood of the sort of weather where if I was in a sailboat I might have to consider heaving to I wouldn't dream of setting off. But neither would I in a sailboat which all my previous boats have been FWIW. I just don't think it makes sense to let the sea crossings that you have in mind be a big factor when they are such a small part of the intended use of the boat, especially (I hope you don't mind me saying) given your budget. Good luck, I'm sure you'll find something suitable...

 

[efanton]

@Gustywinds

Thank you so much for recommending the Options video series. I binge watched the lot over the last couple of evenings. Learnt a few things I did not already know, but the biggest takeaway was the way they broke their journey over a couple of seasons, berthing their boat over winter and returning in spring.
I'm ashamed to say this is something I had not even considered and was constantly altering my route, dropping stretches I didn't really want to miss just so that I could fit it in all in a single year.
Now the bits I was dropping can be added back if I do my intended trip with a winter break between. I really wanted to do a bit of the Danube, but time and distance were against me. Now it just might be possible.

@harvey38 Now going to binge watch the video series recommended by yourself.

​

 

[Gustywinds]

@Gustywinds

Thank you so much for recommending the Options video series. I binge watched the lot over the last couple of evenings. Learnt a few things I did not already know, but the biggest takeaway was the way they broke their journey over a couple of seasons, berthing their boat over winter and returning in spring.
I'm ashamed to say this is something I had not even considered and was constantly altering my route, dropping stretches I didn't really want to miss just so that I could fit it in all in a single year.
Now the bits I was dropping can be added back if I do my intended trip with a winter break between. I really wanted to do a bit of the Danube, but time and distance were against me. Now it just might be possible.

@harvey38 Now going to binge watch the video series recommended by yourself.

​

They took a lot more breaks than intended as they had covid to deal with and it is certainly something I intend to do. I learned a lot from them and am going to follow their path once I get to Dunkerque.
Is the one Harvey recommended the Jaywalking the World one? I’ve been watching this and admit it annoyed me at first but starting to get into it. One thing that does come up is that he is travelling on the smaller canals in winter and is hitting a lot of closures for maintenance. I think we are going to leave the boat in Paris over winter and let friends use it as a holiday base when we are not there ( or with them).
How did this guy get to have so many cute girls join him? Apart from the second one who was annoying.

 

[efanton]

Simple answer ? Yes.

I know my boats.

TBH - it appears you have a strange idea of what boats are. Of course some motor boats are just not designed for sea conditions .. but that's usually obvious by deign - big windows at front of superstructure ... small engines ... etc.
But many Motor boats are fully sea capable - yes they may buck about in seas a bit more than a keel equipped sailboat ... but to say "its a sailboat" is misleading.

Your dilema is that you are looking for a catch all boat .. a boat that can deliver all factors ... which will always be a compromise and master of none.

In your shoes - as I said at beginning - I would be looking at a 'Gentlemans' Motor Cruiser or a moderate lift keel sailboat.

I think you misunderstand me.

I am familiar with sailboats, and would feel fairly confident taking one anywhere in appropriate conditions.

My motor boat experience is limited to canal barges in the UK and a pleasure cruiser on the Shannon. I lack the experience with regards taking one to sea, so not afraid to take advice from those that are more experienced I came here, It appears many are answering the question they want to answer and not my initial question or concern.

Simply, I was trying to determine what powerboats were suitable for canal and river (which is almost all of them, draught would be the only concern) but also something that would be safe to take out to sea (and it's that I have no experience of in a powerboat).

If you had answered a minimum of 80 hp, or a powerboat capable of cruising 6 knots with a minimum length of X and beam of Y, or gave examples of boats that you thought suitable the thread would be over as I would have my answer. Your answer was the type of boat I could never afford, which might be an answer but not very helpful.

Obviously once I had bought the boat I would take 6 months or so to get accustomed to it and familiar with how it handles, maybe do some estuary cruises first, before I ever thought of taking it to sea. But it would be a pointless purchase if it wasn't capable of a sea crossing in calm conditions.

All I was expecting from this thread were some general guidelines for what powerboat would be suitable and affordable to me (30k to 35k).

There a lot of Broom commanders, Broom 35's, Dutch Steel Cruisers, Princess 30's Birchwood 33's etc available at a price that is affordable to me. Some will require additional work but as stated before I expect that and it doesnt bother me. Being retired I will have plenty of time on my hands. I know some equipment will probably need replacing (VHF radios that doesn't have AIS) and added (fenders, safety gear, mooring lines etc.) all that is in a separate budget to the actual purchase.
Others have suggested other boats for which I am very grateful but no one has eliminated any of the above or given reasons why not to consider them.

 

[efanton]

They took a lot more breaks than intended as they had covid to deal with and it is certainly something I intend to do. I learned a lot from them and am going to follow their path once I get to Dunkerque.
Is the one Harvey recommended the Jaywalking the World one? I’ve been watching this and admit it annoyed me at first but starting to get into it. One think that does come up is that he is travelling on the smaller canals in winter and is hitting a lot of closures for maintenance. I think we are going to leave the boat in Paris over winter and let friends use it as a holiday base when we are not there ( or with them).
How did this guy get to have so many cute girls join him? Apart from the second one who was annoying.

Yes, he was recommending Jaywalking the World.
Have only watched the first episode, will watch more tonight but strangely enough I had the same initial impression. I will watch all of them though because even if I only learn one or two things it will be worth it.

Hope you journey works out ok, sounds like you will be doing it before me. Planning to start mine in spring 2028.

 

[Gustywinds]

Planning to start mine in spring 2028.

I’m starting next Monday! I’m in Holland getting the boat ready, my wife flies out on Saturday

 

[efanton]

If anyone else is considering touring the French canals, this guy (Michael Briant) has without doubt the most informative yet concise guide I have seen so far.

He also has a website that sells his own written guides (which I will be buying), but it is also a treasure trove of information and useful links. He also has a YouTube channel documenting his journeys. Although he doesn't use a motorboat (he's done these trips in a dismasted sailboat and believe or not a small catamaran which i would have thought the most inappropriate boat to do it in, but he definitely knows what he's doing)

(mods, this is not an advert, Just sharing info that I have found extremely useful)

 

[efanton]

I’m starting next Monday! I’m in Holland getting the boat ready, my wife flies out on Saturday

Very best of luck, hope you enjoy your journey.

 

[Alicatt]

I’m starting next Monday! I’m in Holland getting the boat ready, my wife flies out on Saturday

Welcome to the EU

We did our first locks under instruction on Sunday, 3 down and then the same three back up. Now the purser wants to take a cruise to Roermond in Holland to visit the outlet centre

 

[Alicatt]

If anyone else is considering touring the French canals, this guy (Michael Briant) has without doubt the most informative yet concise guide I have seen so far.

He also has a website that sells his own written guides (which I will be buying), but it is also a treasure trove of information and useful links. He also has a YouTube channel documenting his journeys. Although he doesn't use a motorboat (he's done these trips in a dismasted sailboat and believe or not a small catamaran which i would have thought the most inappropriate boat to do it in, but he definitely knows what he's doing)

(mods, this is not an advert, Just sharing info that I have found extremely useful)

Before I got the Waterkaart app I used Canalplan.ac, CanalplanAC - Canal Route Planner which has a good gazetteer of canals in the UK and Europe along with photos of various locks and bridges, the one advantage it has over the Waterkaart app is that you can set your own boat's speed and hours you want to sail where the Waterkaart app takes the speed limit of the canal and gives an unrealistic, for me, travel time, the Bocholt-Herentals Kanaal has a speed limit for pleasure boats of 18km/h and my little boat only cruises at 8km/h so there is a big difference in timing, reminds me must send in a request to the app to be able to put my cruising speed in, my friend his boat is flat out at 14km/h and cruises at 12km/h and his boat is much bigger than mine, almost double the length at 14m

 

[dunedin]

If anyone else is considering touring the French canals, this guy (Michael Briant) has without doubt the most informative yet concise guide I have seen so far.

He also has a website that sells his own written guides (which I will be buying), but it is also a treasure trove of information and useful links. He also has a YouTube channel documenting his journeys. Although he doesn't use a motorboat (he's done these trips in a dismasted sailboat and believe or not a small catamaran which i would have thought the most inappropriate boat to do it in, but he definitely knows what he's doing)
(mods, this is not an advert, Just sharing info that I have found extremely useful)

For the European inland waterways I would very strongly recommend joining the Cruising Association as they have a lot of members cruising these waters and publish brilliant guides for all of the waterways - CA

 

[Gustywinds]

Yes, he was recommending Jaywalking the World.
Have only watched the first episode, will watch more tonight

If you get to episode 54 of Jaywalking, he actually meets Sailing Options. I hadn’t noticed it in their video but is there.
I hadn’t thought about taking a lot of video but might do. Need to research some cameras/drone

 

[Paddy Fields]

I presume you are buying a boat in Ireland, which will be Irish. Bring that boat into UK waters will mean you have exported it from Ireland to UK. Normally you have several months of grace to get it back out of UK waters before VAT is due, but as a UK citizen, that VAT is due immediately.

Does being dual citizen helps? Maybe not in theory, but maybe yes from a “practical” point of view.

 

[Alicatt]

in this quarter's issue 74 Kanaal 77 magazine there is a write up about a trip through France on the canals, it's not online yet but should be soon @ Kanaal77&Vademecum | Vlaamse Pleziervaart Federatie There is also a piece about a boat lift in Poland that takes your boat in a cable hauled cradle and lifts it up the hill to the higher canal at Elbląg-Ostróda-Kanaal
Boat coming up to the top taken from Google Earth

 

[DavidJ]

I presume you are buying a boat in Ireland, which will be Irish. Bring that boat into UK waters will mean you have exported it from Ireland to UK. Normally you have several months of grace to get it back out of UK waters before VAT is due, but as a UK citizen, that VAT is due immediately.

Does being dual citizen helps? Maybe not in theory, but maybe yes from a “practical” point of view.

I think your “several months” is in fact 18 months
I quote
You will be entitled to import your boat into the UK without becoming liable for UK VAT under temporary admission rules. The following conditions apply to temporary admission: The vessel must not be located in the UK for more than 18 months.

Also it’s about transfer of goods so citizenship does not apply in this case.