The Forum Burgee.

[hlb]

Henry you still don't get it. The burgee is nothing to do with MBY. Yes they got permition to fly a big forum burgee on their stand at exebitions.. It is famous, that's why they asked. The new system will never work. You get a bland reproduction of perfection for twice the price. It is not about having a new posh flag to fly, it is more about commitment. That is why the flag was not so easy to buy. It never was cash and carry.

 

[jamie langstone]

Does any one have a clear picture of the burgee as i am still not sure what it looks like . There is a post with a picture but its not that clear.

 

[Liz_I]

No sooner said than done

 

[neale]

hlb, I think you are being a bit anal about the burgee. It shouldn't be difficult to buy, in an ideal world it should be easily available to anyone who frequents these fora.

I like to think the burgee is there for anyone who wants to show that they are on the forum. Flying it is almost an invite for other forumites to come and say hello and put a face to a forum handle. It really shouldn't be any more complicated than that.

I understand that the problem is the admin. Getting a decent flag produced at a good price usually means ordering a large number, and I can't imagine there are many forumites prepared to administer and pay up front for this. The only alternative is the one that is on place. Single orders, directly from the manufacturer at quite a high price.

There is one other answer of course, and that is for IPC to take ownership of the burgee. I know hlb won't like this, as he is always at pains to advise that it is nothing to do with IPC, but they could then order in large numbers and send them out at a reasonable cost, while still making a little bit on each. I know Richard has got little else to do so I am sure he'll love this plan

 

[henryf]

Henry you still don't get it. The burgee is nothing to do with MBY. Yes they got permition to fly a big forum burgee on their stand at exebitions.. It is famous, that's why they asked. The new system will never work. You get a bland reproduction of perfection for twice the price. It is not about having a new posh flag to fly, it is more about commitment. That is why the flag was not so easy to buy. It never was cash and carry.

I understand that the burgee is / was nothing to do with IPC, the company who owns the various magazines but ultimately they run the forum and it is on the forum where we all met and continue to chat. From my dealings with the various powers that be I think they view the forum with pretty sensitive and sensible eyes. It may be because large corporations still aren't entirely sure quite how forums run and effect them. Either way the magazine's involvement in the forum is positive. Every now and again they are called in to sort out a squabble, but I have to say incredibly infrequently compared to most forums.

So I see, or saw any involvement in burgees being one of helping us with graphic skills or facilitating sales / distribution. Far from increasing costs I envisaged costs remaining the same or even reducing due to scale of economy. As it is an individual has to fork out to buy a load of burgees then sell them on or individuals have to pay more for a 1 off purchase. Someone like IPC could easily carry some stock and higher production numbers mean lower prices.

I've just ordered a burgee from Ensign and they make them as a 1 off to order which ultimately must be the most expensive solution. At £24 I'm not going to lose sleep but you mentioned price.

This is not a yacht club, you don't have to be proposed or seconded, we welcome everyone and sometimes input comes from the most unlikely of sources. So I don't understand the need to make getting a burgee difficult. I would love to see everyone who posts or even just reads posts flying the flag. I have met quite a lot of people at social gatherings who are active readers of the forum but who feel a bit intimidated when it comes to contributing. Out on the water though they would happily say hello or been said hello to. There will be a good many contributors who don't even know of the existence of a forum burgee!

One thing I would say with the current design, it's quite delicate when viewed from afar. I would champion something bolder and more immediately obvious when viewed from a distance or the top of JFM's 40 metre superyacht. After all surely they are the boats we want to be invited on to

As ever with internet exchanges this is a discussion not an argument and my comments are merely thoughts typed onto a screen, not thumping fists on a table



Henry

 

[Searush]

You first met me when I chased up to your arse at twenty odd knots, but you never noticed. I had to put my foot on the brakes.

:encouragement:

 

[Searush]

I expect H will correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC, he used to post & ask who wanted a burgee, then order the requisite number with his own money & post out as people paid up with a SAE. Any one could do that if they wished & H was trying to get someone to take over the task, but there were no takers, maybe you would like to do it?

 

[henryf]

I expect H will correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC, he used to post & ask who wanted a burgee, then order the requisite number with his own money & post out as people paid up with a SAE. Any one could do that if they wished & H was trying to get someone to take over the task, but there were no takers, maybe you would like to do it?

I did think about doing it and we also have an online sales platform on which to sell them 24/7 365. The only issue is our product uses a next working day courier service which would be prohibitively expensive. We don't routinely use the post office.

The problem is it seems that would make them too easy to get hold of.

The other "H"

 

[ricky_s]

I did think about doing it and we also have an online sales platform on which to sell them 24/7 365. The only issue is our product uses a next working day courier service which would be prohibitively expensive. We don't routinely use the post office.

The problem is it seems that would make them too easy to get hold of.

The other "H"

It seems the answer is clear then, £24 or just don't order one. As I said before, I do have one but it hasn't changed my life!

 

[Richard Shead]

hlb, I think you are being a bit anal about the burgee. It shouldn't be difficult to buy, in an ideal world it should be easily available to anyone who frequents these fora.

I like to think the burgee is there for anyone who wants to show that they are on the forum. Flying it is almost an invite for other forumites to come and say hello and put a face to a forum handle. It really shouldn't be any more complicated than that.

I understand that the problem is the admin. Getting a decent flag produced at a good price usually means ordering a large number, and I can't imagine there are many forumites prepared to administer and pay up front for this. The only alternative is the one that is on place. Single orders, directly from the manufacturer at quite a high price.

There is one other answer of course, and that is for IPC to take ownership of the burgee. I know hlb won't like this, as he is always at pains to advise that it is nothing to do with IPC, but they could then order in large numbers and send them out at a reasonable cost, while still making a little bit on each. I know Richard has got little else to do so I am sure he'll love this plan

Love it......

 

[johnwest]

Flying my burgee just got me a borrowed plug adaptor from Johnwest. The keen eyed fellow forumite spotted my blue and yellow waver flying on the transom, and stopped by for a chat. Thanks John.

Nice to meet you Graham. Without the forum burgee would have just wandered past you. Hope you enjoyed your stay and have a safe onward passage.

j

 

[hlb]

Henry. It was never that difficult to get, but you had to put a little bit of effort in, else I would have had all the work for little reward, plus if sold on line, how would I know who had paid?? Who the hell is searush?? Who would pay for the special web site.

There was never the quantity to do it on a proper commercial level, so if you wanted one, you had to play by the rules.

The mouse was chosen because it was the only design submitted that could sensibly be embroidered. Anyway it's a bit late to complain now. It has been around for about twelve years or more, just about every one loved it, but you can't please every one all the time.

The idea of having it big enough for the biggest boat on the forum is stupid, what would everyone else do with it?? Or did you mean a range of sizes to suit every one.

Part of my reason for stopping doing the burgee, was for having to listen to comments like yours. If I had listened to every ones comments in the first place, the burgee would never have been produced.

Why don't you just make your own burgee, then you can have it anyway you like.

 

[CharlieAlpha]

Henry. .......
Why don't you just make your own burgee, then you can have it anyway you like.

True but the tone a tad unfair on Henry IMHO he was only making a point, he's one of the most enthusiastic forum members I've had the pleasure of meeting.

 

[henryf]

I understand the reasoning behind the current design. You were also limited by production techniques which have changed in the ensuing 12 years. Finally there were graphic design limitations which could be negated by using IPC staff. Given a hour or so over a couple of weeks they have skills we might not have.

You missed my point about standing out. Where did say it needed to be larger?

What I was saying was that the design is a very thin line drawing and hard to see at a distance. Something that stands out when seen from afar would be more ideal. I have ordered an 18 inch burgee. Is that not the norm?

As for a special website to sell them on I could have it as a product to purchase on line with online payment in less than 10 minutes. Payment processing is fully automated and 3D secure. We just have to put them in the post.

Henry

 

[hlb]

Henry, you should have been around when the burgee was being discussed a long time ago, just what is the point in rubbishing what you can no longer have. Well not a proper one anyway.

There has been quite a few thousand mouse burgees bought. one hundred and thirty were sold on the first issue.

Only two people have ever complained about the burgee. One said that his did not flap proper? So another forumite bought it off him.

The second one is youself.

The forum burgee was very successful. OK there were two people that did not like it. I can live with that.

Why not put your money where your mouth is, like I had to do, before any were sold or even ordered.

You can be the new forum flag man and make it any way you like.

 

[henryf]

I don't understand what you mean by, "rubbishing what I can't have."

I'm not bothered whether I have production run 1 or 100, it's a bit of fabric. I'm more interested in people noticing I have it and that I'm a forum member if they want to come along and say hello. "Oh, so you're the bloke who....."

I don't see my comments as rubbishing anything. You grouped everyone together and got a burgee off the ground 12 years ago. That's a great achievement and the fact that thousands have been sold if phenomenal. What I would say is I never see them out and about. It may be because no one flies them or it may be because they aren't striking enough. After 12 years I think it's worth considering a re-design. If no improvement can be found then we have a working solution one of which I have just bought.

In the Solent the burgee I notice the most is the Island Sailing club. Not necessarily for the volume but for the fact I spot every one. They are a bold design and a good benchmark.

Henry

 

[Liz_I]

Henry 'you never see them out & about' where is your out & about?
Quite late in our cruising we discovered the forum & purchased the burgee. We haven't had any problem with folks recognizing it!!! btw it's not exclusive to motor boats. Ours was spreader height at about 14mtrs......................

 

[henryf]

I'm based in Haslar, Gosport (Portsmouth). So my out & about is the Solent.

Henry

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Looks like you're the new forum burgeemeister, Henry Put me down for 2. One minor improvement I would suggest is a wooden toggle sewn into the string at the top. I lost a couple of the old burgees over the years when the string chafed through. Anyone know if flag etiquette dictates what size club burgees have to be? If there aren't any rules praps offer 2 sizes, a standard size with the same dimensions as before and a large size for bigger boats. All yours Henry

 

[Searush]

There a good few to be seen on the Menai Straits every weekend, perhaps you are just sailing in the wrong place then?