How Not to Fall Off

[guernseyman]

USCG tales of finding guys with zips undone ...

I heard that a considerable percentage of drowned sailors are found in the open fly state.
Since then on my ketch I wrap my arms around a mainmast backstay and mizzenmast fore shroud which are both heading for the same chain plate.
Also I make it a rule not to try zipping up afterwards until back in the cockpit as it is sometimes more difficult than unzipping.

 

[William_H]

Things are a little different here at 32degrees south. Warm water and enclosed water ways. I have lots count in memory of MOBs off my little boat. Each very disconcerting of course. Early on I lost 2 men over baord when trying to gybe the spinnaker and the boat broached laying mast near the water and crew fell off sideways. Very difficult recovery due to need to control the spinnaker. (and no engine) Both got picked up by another mobo.
Then I fell off the fore deck another person's boat when rigging up attached to the outside of the club jetty. I jsut swam to the nearby jetty ladder. Soon dried off and did the short race. Can't remember why I fell off.
The my regular crew was on foredeck standing taking off the jib after the race. Gave the helm, to a 10 year old girl. She yanked the tiller hand and boat swung and poor David fell over side. He manged to maintain a hold of a sheet then gunwhale and we got he back on via stern ladder.
Then 2 different cases of 10 yo child on foredeck with more confidence than sense. One managed to hold on to a rope. The last just a few months back fell free. But my trusty crew man leaned over from the cockpit and grabbed his arm. Hauled him over the side. Turns out this kid has lots of experience riding behind dad's float behind mobo and loves to fall off. I leave the father to take charge and responsibilities of children. Though I am getting more concerned about children on fore deck. They always wear bouyancy vest. Would I have turned around and gone back for him. Yes begrudgingly. Would blow the race. I always have a Dad in buoyancy vest to be the one to follow a child into the water if they go over and are left behind.
Then at least 2 cases of people climbing in to the hard dinghy after a sail. Too much weight on one side capsized the dinghy and ended up in water. Left them in the water and rowed in to shallows. (not far).
So yes lots of experience of how to fall in water. (please don't be horrified at my carelessness) Things are different here. ol'will

 

[thinwater]

I heard that a considerable percentage of drowned sailors are found in the open fly state.
Since then on my ketch I wrap my arms around a mainmast backstay and mizzenmast fore shroud which are both heading for the same chain plate.
Also I make it a rule not to try zipping up afterwards until back in the cockpit as it is sometimes more difficult than unzipping.

Does ANYONE have a report to confirm this? I have never seen this in USCG statistics, and I have searched. I really, really wonder if this is just urban legend, because it sounds plausible, it's stupid, and it is funny.

Prove me wrong, anybody. I'm not picking on Guernseyman. If it is that common there will be a reference. If there is no reference, then at least the high frequency part is surely urban legend.

Anyone who actually wants to be careful about this doesn't do it. There are many other ways.

 

[guernseyman]

Does ANYONE have a report to confirm this? I have never seen this in USCG statistics, and I have searched. I really, really wonder if this is just urban legend, because it sounds plausible, it's stupid, and it is funny.

Prove me wrong, anybody. I'm not picking on Guernseyman. If it is that common there will be a reference. If there is no reference, then at least the high frequency part is surely urban legend.

Anyone who actually wants to be careful about this doesn't do it. There are many other ways.

It is hard to find a source. There are just repetitions of a rumour like the following in https://www.gacooarlocks.com › drownings

“ A funny thing happened, we got him on the pis and next morning he was found floating in the water. I suppose it wasn’t really funny, he had his fly undone and we reckon he must have been taking a pis and fell over.” They say many drownings are caused in this manner and that the proof is the open fly.

 

[Refueler]

Does ANYONE have a report to confirm this? I have never seen this in USCG statistics, and I have searched. I really, really wonder if this is just urban legend, because it sounds plausible, it's stupid, and it is funny.

Prove me wrong, anybody. I'm not picking on Guernseyman. If it is that common there will be a reference. If there is no reference, then at least the high frequency part is surely urban legend.

Anyone who actually wants to be careful about this doesn't do it. There are many other ways.

I was the one who first mentioned it on this thread and as I said - its probably a myth ...

 

[MisterBaxter]

If I remember correctly, the RNLI published statistics on fatal yachting accidents, and about 75% occurred while using the tender to get to or from shore. Darkness, alcohol, lack of life jackets and warm, heavy shore clothes were presumably factors.

 

[geem]

If I remember correctly, the RNLI published statistics on fatal yachting accidents, and about 75% occurred while using the tender to get to or from shore. Darkness, alcohol, lack of life jackets and warm, heavy shore clothes were presumably factors.

Add in small and not so seaworthy tenders.

 

[oilybilge]

My guilty moment...

My yacht was on her buoy in the river, and I was transferring the outboard into the dinghy. My usual routine is to lower it down using the boom and mainsheet. But it was a nice sunny day and I was feeling confident so this time I just picked it up and stepped down into the dinghy.

It all happened very slowly. I got one foot in the dinghy, and found myself doing the splits. I couldn't pull the dinghy back alongside. It was too late to climb back aboard the yacht. I tried to save the outboard by lifting it into the dinghy, but even this proved impossible. Finally I realised my only option was to lower myself and the outboard into the water. It was probably the slowest Man Over Board ever.

So there I was in the river grasping the outboard in one hand and the gunwale of the dinghy in the other. There was a considerable current flowing, and to make things worse the dinghy kept threatening to tip over on top of me whenever I put too much weight on it. It's funny, though, the only thing that really worried me was that someone might see me in this embarrassing position. Drowning is one thing but losing your reputation as a moderately competent yachtsman is quite another.

Anyway, I managed to get a line through the handle of the outboard and tie it on. I left it dangling underwater while I crawled into the dinghy via the transom. And that was that. Luckily I'd left my wallet and phone in the cabin. After a freshwater bath and a couple of oil changes the outboard didn't seem to mind its swim. And by a stroke of sheer luck, nobody had been watching!

The banal conclusion is: don't be casual just because it's a nice day.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I have fallen overboard once, it was a small 20ft cabin cruiser, rented for the afternoon on an inland lake on a beautiful day ... I leant back against a guard rail that wasn't there - a habit from sailing my own boat. I went gracefully over the side but managed to grab the deck so I was hanging off the side of the boat, I went hand-over-hand to the stern where I climbed back on board using the attached ladder. Much hilarity among the crew ensued as I was the one who was supposed to know what he was doing.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

In fact, the modern thinking is a bit more complicated than that. Three points of contact, for example, don't help much if the rock is steep or overhanging. It has largely been replaced by several other maxims:

• Anchors should be redundant. If not redundant, beyond conceivable reproach. Food for though when climbing the mast or building any safety system.
• Anchors must be simple to inspect at a glance, not a spider's web. Simple knots, no complex interconnections.
• If you don't have a good anchor or the ground is sketchy, substitute time. In practice this does not always means moving slowly, but it always means climbing with great focus and care when a fall is poorly protected. If you have no safety line, prevent falling by focusing 100% on secure movement. It might not be obvious, but this is what you see when Arnold soloed El Capitan. Focus.
• The correlary is that if you cannot focus on climbing or holding on, then your anchors must be beyond reproach. Only then can you focus on your work.

More than once, way up in the mountains, my partner would remind me that "this would be a good time not to fall." Sort of dark humor, but a warning that you are in the serious injury/death zone. MOB can be like that. Like climbing, there are safe times and places to fall, and times when you must be able to just not fall though focus or rigging.

Thanks. I'm not a rock climber, but being a geology graduate, many of my contemporaries were! But that was 50 years ago, and you're describing much more technical climbing than they did; it was mostly free climbing, and an overhang would not be contemplated. I never went beyond a hard scramble; the upper limit of what Wainwright would include in his guides, or maybe a little beyond!

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Staying on board is not an issue that needs significant addressing because the amount of overboard events is extremely low. Also the means of staying aboard is not only well established, but nearly universally adopted. Further, the actual risk has reduced due to furling headsails, in mast reefing or at cockpit slab reefing. The spinnaker is well on its way to being replaced by cruising chutes, asymmetric sails on furlers. There has even been an increase in powered lowering and hoisting anchor windlasses with wireless controls reducing the foredeck exposure to anchor. Yachts themselves have become more stable with wider decks and greater form stability. Finally most folks have an inherent understanding that falling overboard is dangerous, so tend to conduct themselves safely.

MOB recovery is a worthy discussion point because it is such a rare thing to do, unlike staying onboard which is highly probable.

Evan Starzinger I think may have missed the point, but I am not sure because I have haven’t read the case he made. Jackstay design remains fairly ubiquitous on the side decks, when there have been better solutions proposed but not readily adopted.

 

[Halo]

Sailor distracted with flies open. How innocent we were taking it that they were having a pee rather than getting oral gratification.

 

[thinwater]

I was the one who first mentioned it on this thread and as I said - its probably a myth ...

I wasn't challenging you. Really. We've all heard the rumors, but I've never heard a case that was documented by anything more than the rumor mill. This is something that is often repeated, and if true, I would LOVE to have an actual link.

I'm pretty sure it has happened. I'd bet money. Most likely alcohol was also involved, triggering the urgent need. Probably fishing in a small boat with no head.

And yes, it is generally a dumb practice.

 

[thinwater]

Thanks. I'm not a rock climber, but being a geology graduate, many of my contemporaries were! But that was 50 years ago, and you're describing much more technical climbing than they did; it was mostly free climbing, and an overhang would not be contemplated. I never went beyond a hard scramble; the upper limit of what Wainwright would include in his guides, or maybe a little beyond!

It is the though process I wanted to introduce. If you can't make the situation safe with rigging, focus intently on what you are doing. Plan each movement.

 

[pandos]

I fell in whilst lying on the deck trying to tie up to a large buoy. It was dark and raining. I just reached too far over the edge...

Lesson learned.. I think the lack of friction with wet foul weather gear on a wet deck was the major cause...

I have a boat with less freeboard now... But still I tend to lay on deck with more care....

 

[thinwater]

I went for a swim off the boat today. I don't think that counts. It does point to the usefulness of a ladder; reboarding was little more difficult than exiting a pool, and there were 2' waves.

 

[Marceline]

I've been reading these and the MOB posts and the replies have been very illuminating and lots of food for thought

We're still learning and had done the MOBs with various RYA courses but never more than the 'bucket/fender' retrieval and I think where we sail mostly (Menai Strait with its strong currents) we both think we'd struggle to put into practice those drills, plus there's just two of us (and I'm very heavy), so likely getting back onboard we'd struggle - and that's quite a worrying thought.

Reading through this I think we'll make much more use of our 3 hook safety lines and clip onto various places moving about the boat (we've no jackstays) - I know it makes us looks like newbs but tbh we are and we think we'd not do well (well, tbh very badly) if one of us goes in

I also almost went in a couple of weeks ago - was climbing out of our dinghy (we tie the painter to midship cleat and partner steps up first from dinghy to the cockpit while I'm using a boat hook to keep steady, then I tend to step onto the dropped swim ladder thats on the port side of the transom). On this day though the dingy moved away and my right foot slipped off the swim ladder and I had one leg in the water and was holding onto the ladder and pushpit. Thankfully my partner grabbed my lifejacket and helped haul me up so I could regain my footing, but -- even 20feet from the shore it was a big scare. So now I've a short line on the rear cleat near the swimladder held that I tie onto the dinghy now to minimise lateral movement and so far it seems safer.

So yes - these have been very illuminating threads - especially the realities of just how difficult it is to bring someone back onboard after a MOB

 

[thinwater]

I've been reading these and the MOB posts and the replies have been very illuminating and lots of food for thought

We're still learning and had done the MOBs with various RYA courses but never more than the 'bucket/fender' retrieval and I think where we sail mostly (Menai Strait with its strong currents) we both think we'd struggle to put into practice those drills, plus there's just two of us (and I'm very heavy), so likely getting back onboard we'd struggle - and that's quite a worrying thought.

Reading through this I think we'll make much more use of our 3 hook safety lines and clip onto various places moving about the boat (we've no jackstays) - I know it makes us looks like newbs but tbh we are and we think we'd not do well if one of us goes in

I also almost went in a couple of weeks ago - was climbing out of our dinghy (we tie the painter to midship cleat and partner steps out from dinghy to the cockpit while I'm using a boat hook to keep steady, then I tend to step onto the dropped swim ladder. On this day though the dingy moved away and my right foot slipped off the swim ladder and I had one leg in the water and was holding onto the ladder and pushpit. Thankfully my partner grabbed my lifejacket and helped haul me up so I could regain my footing, but -- even 20feet from the shore it was a big scare. So now I've a short line on the rear cleat near the swimladder held that I tie onto the dinghy now to minimise lateral movement and so far it seems safer.

So yes - these have been very illuminating threads - especially the realities of just how difficult it is to bring someone back onboard after a MOB

I've been meaning to write something up on MOB plans for couple crew, since nearly all "official" methods assume a full racing crew.

Lifting is just one problem.

• Return to the MOB without losing sight. This means a couple of tacks or jibes and maybe dropping sail (let's avoid the details). You have to look away, so it is vital that the sailing be on straight lines and that you do not get turned around. Do the drill with just a fender, but without your partner helping in any way, including not unconsciously watching the fender and thereby giving you a clue. Turn the boat and return under control.
• Stopping the boat. You will not have anyone to steer or manage the throttle, so you have the stop the boat in such a way that you can contact and hoist the MOB while not tending the helm. The boat cannot accelerate onto a reach. It cannot drift out of control. Thus, no fair snagging the fender with a boat hook as it goes by; you need to have the speed down to just about zero, and it needs to stay there.

Some people favor bringing all of the lines to the cockpit. I don't, really. I do favor going on deck a lot and practicing relatively close to shore in daylight. You need to be comfortable and to learn how to move safely.

Today I was sailing my F-24 trimaran in sporty conditions (10 knot boat speed). Something on the lee rail required tending--long story, but many trips all along the length of the rail. The boat has no lifeline on the rail. I was also alone. The answer was a jackline (jackstay), harness, and short tether, combined with careful movement. I got wet, but no slips and no close calls.

 

[sawduster]

This is a useful update from the RTI at the weekend “It was like doing a MOB recovery wearing a neck brace” - says Round the Island Race 2024 man overboard skipper - Practical Boat Owner.

 

[thinwater]

Other than guard rails, tether, and jackstays, what gear do you consider an important part of staying on-board?

• Sticky deck shoes. I'm currently using Gill Race Trainers, which I like, but I've used many.
• Gloves. I feel more certain of my grip on wires when I know it won't hurt.
• Non-skid. I add 3M grit tape anywhere the gel coat non-skid is not enough. Don't worry about what it looks like. In many cases the contrasting color will warn you of a change in deck angle or similar hazard.
• Handholds. Add them as needed. Make sure they aren't slippery (bare SS sucks for this).
• Reducing trip hazards. Lines that can roll under foot are bad.
• Boarding provisions? I added transom extensions to my PDQ largely for this reason.
• Gates. Some people hate them, some people love them. They need to be done well. It can depend on the boat.
• Cushions that don't slide.
• Slippery clothing can be a hazard. I wish I knew a good way around that. I do look at the finish when buying. I'd rather risk getting wet and slip-n-slide.