Why are bavarias so cheap?

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Mark,

I would agree with that... but for many of us, the 'special' boat is out of reach price wise, unless we are prepared to compromise on size internal and external (and hence comfort for a family boat) and age....

Sailfree,

Earlier this year, we wondered about buying a new boat (before deciding that we couldn't afford what we really wanted), so I have here in front of me, a set of current prices (or at least as current as November),and have gone through in Excel a side by side price comparison with as similar spec as I could get, and I can assure you that the Bavaria is typically £20k cheaper than the equivalent Jenneau, Beneteau and Hanse

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
you may find that the boat that suffered the keel problem fared a well as any other AWB would have under the same mis-treatment.

I seem to remember that a year or so ago a Hanse had a rudder drop off. What about the Legend that had to be sunk during the Arc a couple of years back. Do their issues mean that all Hanse and Legends are rubbish? What about the HT that capsized a couple of years back. Does this mean that all Cats are rubbish?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a pretty damning indictment of AWB's you've just made!

.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Simon,

Do you drive an old classic car by any chance? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Guest]

No, don't have a car, I have a bicycle. If I were thinking of buying a Bavaria I'd probably buy a car instead though. You get more for your money.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

At an attempt to be totally neutral....

I'd love a respected MAB.... a Contessa 32 would be a lovely boat to own.... and if caught out in a storm, then there aren't many better boats of that size range to be in.....

I'd love a modern AWB.... A Bavaria 37 would be fantastic....all that space, loads of neat features, and real comfort....

In reality, I am making the point in my own way, that I get fed up of people knocking anything that is different from what they own..... every boat has its correct owner, and every sailor has their ideal boat.... Imposing your ideals on others is just dooming many to a sailing experience that doesn't match their needs....

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Simon, you don't give up do you.....

If you have a bicycle, I hope you never need to do a really really long journey, as it might prove some what unsuitable for your needs....... point made?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Bicycles are very suitable for long journeys, just not very fast.

OTOH, you can fix them if they break, they don't require extensive support facilities, and you'll have more fun than you would in a Winnebago - well, when driving, anyway.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
Simon, you don't give up do you.....

If you have a bicycle, I hope you never need to do a really really long journey, as it might prove some what unsuitable for your needs....... point made?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why should I give up? I cycled it to Moscow, does that count?

Bored with people knocking others boats, I can sympathise with that.

I don't think that many would dispute that the likes of Bavs fulfil a function, and that they provide a lot of volume per dollar.

Discussion of this subject is not possible without offending someone, but at the same time it's a shame if debate which can influence future fashions and therefore future yacht design has to be hushed up for fear of treading on current owners' sensibilities. No one seems to be saying that we should only say nice things about the Volvo ocean race boats for fear of offending THEIR owners - why not?

I guess a thread like this either should be banned from the start, or people should feel free to speak what they think is the truth. And unfortunately the Thought Police are out in force.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

LOL....... but like some of the entrenched positions on here, they can make your backside sore.....

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Agree.....

ps..... thats quite a ride on a push bike!

 

[Guest]

... as Twister Ken says, a bike's quite an effective form of transport, just not a very fast one. Still, it's 3x faster than a yacht! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[BlueSkyNick]

[ QUOTE ]
Still, it's 3x faster than a yacht! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not across the sea, it's not ! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Guest]

Yes, but yots not so hot on country lanes either! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
Bicycles are very suitable for long journeys, just not very fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you can take them on ferries too if all else fails? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
In reality, I am making the point in my own way, that I get fed up of people knocking anything that is different from what they own..... every boat has its correct owner, and every sailor has their ideal boat.... Imposing your ideals on others is just dooming many to a sailing experience that doesn't match their needs....

[/ QUOTE ]

Egg Zackerly!

I would add too that it applies even within a brand too, each design/type should be judged inividually on it's own merit and for the purpose for which it will be used.

 

[Guest]

So, carefully avoiding comparing it to other boats, and judging it individually on its own merit, and only for the purpose it will be used, you mean it's cr@p or not? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[30boat]

Re: Song of a happy Bavaria owner

A menos que você ROUBE um banco. Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Guest]

Match Keel problem ...

Having an interest in this specific topic - being a surveyor - I trawl the web looking for as much info etc. as possible about this matter.
As I understand it Bav and owners are still in dispute ... at least not agreed on reason and owner has posted a lot of info about lack of keel bolt support etc.
Conflicting reports from Bav and owners does not bode well to come to agreed conclusion.

Also as I understand from info freely available on web etc. - the keel fittings appear extremely suspect judging by the photos exhibited.

I do not condemn Bavs or any other boat - but do believe that care should be exercised in their cosntruction. Also that buyers should know that just because a boat has a Lloyds or other Mark for construction - that that mark is normally due to prototype or example boat being presented for assessment - NOT every boat built.

I cannot see how anyone can claim a budget boat such as Bav etc. can be quality such as HR / Swan etc. There MUST be compromise somewhere to arrive at such pricing.
Many claim that bulk buying reduces significantly pricing .... OK if thats the case then why isn't Mercedes etc. so reduced in price considering they probably bulk buy far more than Bav ????

Sorry but a lot of the arguments and comments don't stand up to serious scrutiny. Bav's, Legends are the Ford Anglias of the boat world ....

 

[zefender]

Re: Match Keel problem ...

You started your post in a nice objective manner but then lost the plot and credibility on the 'Ford Anglia' bit!

Look at the amount of kit fitted to a new Mercedes and compare it with one 20 years ago and you will see that you get an awful lot more in a later model than an old one (whether they are actually as reliable as a result is another matter). So, stuff that was once the preserve of formula one cars is now fitted to 'lowly' daihatsu, so inevitably, costs fall as a result of volume production of such kits (eg ABS, aircon, sat-coms, engine control systems etc). Mercedes, to its cost, has also rested a bit on its premium brand value whereas bavaria has no such halo effect to inflate its pricing strategy.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure the car analogy works very well when comparing boats.

The debate is confused a bit by the word 'quality' which means loads of different things, to different people. Is it thickness of hull, weight, joinery, sailing ability, heavy weather capability, design, living space per LOA, storage, berths, ease of maintenance, quality of fittings, brand name, - the list is almost endless. And your list would almost certainly not be the same as mine. Some are rational, some not. There are plenty of boats I would buy in addition to a Bavaria. Frankly, an HR isn't on my list because it scores lower on my list of wants - a Swan probably would be!

Bavarias cost less than many other marques because of their volume production techniques, probably lower margins and yes, some skimping on 'extras' and even aftersales care. They are successful not because they are selling to stupid people who don't know any better (or just those who can't afford an HR or a Swan) but who have a set of criteria that Bavaria meets and other marques don't. Of course such a choice is a compromise. Any purchase is. If I were interested in racing, close quarters maneouvreability and these were high on my list of wants, would I choose an HR? But if I wanted the motion, heavy weather cabability and joinery of one, I might.

Since buying my Bav, apart from one rudder problem, I've enjoyed 5 years of pretty much hassle free sailing, travelled thousands of miles (not just Solent marina hopping) and have never felt I choose the wrong boat for me. Most of us benefit, directly or indirectly, from the kick up the jacksie Bavaria (and some competitors) have given the boating industry. Despite the disbelief and sneering in some quarters, they are continuing to prosper from a simple but sound business strategy.

 

[Guest]

Ford Anglia\'s ...

Were one of Fords most successful cars ....... supplying what the public wanted .... cheap affordable motoring with reasonable space and ability. Isn't that the premise that Bav is working to as well albeit on water ?

So instead of Anglia being an insult - maybe it spells it out better than all the rhetoric ???