Opinions please - New sails from Elvstrom.

[Baggywrinkle]

Vectron is a hybrid, polyester with Vectran fibres to improve stability and lifeprecisionsailloft.com/education/cloth/long-distance-circumnavigation/bainbridge-sailcloth-hsxv-vectran-hybrid/ Hydranet is also a hybrid of polyester and dyneema dimension-polyant.com/product/hydra-net-radial-with-bio-based-dyneema-fibers/

Obviously both are more expensive than the good polyester you have been quoted. as I suggested earlier using this type of cloth gets many of the advantages of a battened furling main without the complexity. I should add a rider that when I bought ny sail, part of the concern about battens was thee potential lack of space in the mast for the furled sail. Vectran is thicker than the polyester of the original and was initially a tight fit in the extrusion. However never a problem when furling.

Maybe I should have another look in the piggy bank.

 

[John_Silver]

Maybe I should have another look in the piggy bank.

A piggy bank friendly option to consider:

Cross cut (instead of radial) sails in Contender Fibrecon Pro Vectran - / DP Vectron which are optimised for cross cut construction. The saving in cloth wasteage / seaming complexity will, most likely, bring the Vectran price back to, or below, your Dacron quote. Certainly that's what happened when I replaced Stargazer's sails.....

If concerned that going cross cut would mean 'selling the boat short’ (which was my initial reaction): when I talked to the 'usual suspects' in the UK sailmaking world, whilst choosing cloth and sounding out pricing, my understanding, that radial was 'best,' was universally challenged, by them. Which surprised me. All argued that, for durability, they would recommend cross cut over radial, in sustained cruising use. Due to the reduced number of seams to fail. When I asked about shape, the advice was that, with high stability modern cloths, like Vectran, good shape could be built, and locked, in. Four years on, with the main, two years on, with the 105% jib, I'm happy with both. More so than with their predecessors. Which were variously: Elvstrom 'offshore' Dacron, Elvstrom Cruising Laminate and Hydranet Radial. Usage: 5-6 months of liveaboard cruising, a year, circling Biscay France / Spain, from a UK East Coast winter berth.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Update, went back to the sailmaker and the sails will now most probably be Hydra Net Radial, radial cut with vertically battened main and no battens in the 120% genoa.

Cloth for main and genny .... Hydra Net® radial

Main: Elvstrøm Sails Configurator

Genoa: Elvstrøm Sails Configurator

Code Zero (Cruise): Elvstrøm Sails Configurator

Please don't post any more comments as I'll either end up totally skint or have a nervous breakdown.

Additional work to be done includes a Selden Bowsprit and a 2 to 1 halyard for the Code Zero, plus rig inspection and tune up. There's plenty of life in the old girl yet.

.. also took on @ashtead comment about electric winches in the cockpit - so have gone for a manual code zero furler with lines lead to an electric winch in the cockpit - which enables the upgrade on cloth. My thinking was redundancy. If I initially fit a manual furler set up to use the electric winch in the cockpit, and it works fine, then I don't need an electric furler on the code zero. If it is a pain, I can retro-fit the Profurl electric furler very easily and keep the manual furler and lines as a backup - they can be swapped out very easily and are the same height, and will complement the manual backup I already have for the electric genoa.

I think I'm about done. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread, I've learnt a lot and hopefully have an optimal sail setup (given the constraints of the boat and my wallet) that will last me many nautical miles.

 

[Tranona]

Very sound choice. It will pay off over the time you have the boat.

BTW your configurator link screwed up my browser. Don't know exactly how as I had to shut down and reboot after I tried to close the page and reboot.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

This thread is not yet dead ... one more question about the Cruising Code Zero 53% (83m2) sailcloth.

Elvestrom calls it BZ 60 but the Code Zero sailcloth is from Challenge Sailcloth (previously Bainbridge?) and it is a laminate ... Baltic 6 UAX .... "It contains precision laminated light weight taffeta film with aramid warp inserts. For added bias strength we included Twaron black stability. Baltic is treated with Ultrafresh anti-mildew." .... it will be manufactured with a UV protection strip so it can be left up when on board, although removal is recommended if strong winds are expected.

Baltic Code Zero — Challenge Sailcloth

Bit worried about mildew although Croatia is generally very dry in comparison to the UK, any observations/comments/suggestions on the sailcloth welcome ... it's double Dutch to me.

 

[Puffin10032]

Challenge and Bainbridge are different companies (although both derive from the original Howe and Bainbridge).

I don't think you really need to understand the fine technical specs of the cloth any more than you need to understand the fine technical specs of the steel used to make your car's pistons. Your sailmaker will understand all that stuff and will advise the most suitable cloth for your needs. (having said that if you really, really want to know then I'll post a very, very long follow-up post explaining all the jargon).

The risk of mildew is something to you just you have to accept when using laminates. Cloth manufacturers have made great strides in reducing the mildew risk but I'm not aware of any that claim to have totally eliminated it.

 

[ashtead]

Personally I would remove the code zero if not aboard as unfurling in absence of crew aboard can be an expensive mistake even in a marina slip . I have seen others leave up and these to unfurl. Clearly a risk question but we never leave ours hoisted when leaving boat. Clearly you can drop into bag clipped to rail as the bag design facilitates with hooks to attach. I guess cloth depends on budget -if you don’t leave out I guess mildew not a problem as it won’t really be out unless say sunny 12 knot day hopefully -I would have thought uv damage more likely ?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Personally I would remove the code zero if not aboard as unfurling in absence of crew aboard can be an expensive mistake even in a marina slip . I have seen others leave up and these to unfurl. Clearly a risk question but we never leave ours hoisted when leaving boat. Clearly you can drop into bag clipped to rail as the bag design facilitates with hooks to attach. I guess cloth depends on budget -if you don’t leave out I guess mildew not a problem as it won’t really be out unless say sunny 12 knot day hopefully -I would have thought uv damage more likely ?

Agree, only leave it up when aboard, and when strong winds aren't forecast ..... I've seen enough genoas/jibs trashed on the boats on the lake to not make the same mistake, and the code zero is almost double the sail area.

The other thing I do is allow the sheets to wrap 3-5 times round the genoa when furling so if it gets shaken loose, instead of sail being exposed, I have 5 wraps of tightening on the furled genoa before the clew is exposed.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We get around that on both jib and code 0 by having zip on sleeves which go on with spare halyards when we stop for a night even, as well as when leaving. The sail can’t unfurl, they’re quick to put on. Compression lacing prevents flogging.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

We get around that on both jib and code 0 by having zip on sleeves which go on with spare halyards when we stop for a night even, as well as when leaving. The sail can’t unfurl, they’re quick to put on. Compression lacing prevents flogging.

Got one of them for the genny, but running out of halyards for the code zero.

 

[mrming]

Nice to see the lesser spotted thread where everyone is nice, knowledgeable and it actually helps the OP.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Challenge and Bainbridge are different companies (although both derive from the original Howe and Bainbridge).

I don't think you really need to understand the fine technical specs of the cloth any more than you need to understand the fine technical specs of the steel used to make your car's pistons. Your sailmaker will understand all that stuff and will advise the most suitable cloth for your needs. (having said that if you really, really want to know then I'll post a very, very long follow-up post explaining all the jargon).

The risk of mildew is something to you just you have to accept when using laminates. Cloth manufacturers have made great strides in reducing the mildew risk but I'm not aware of any that claim to have totally eliminated it.

Interested in the expected lifespan in comparison to the main and genny - I know it's a "How long is a piece of string?" question .... but I'd like it to last a good few years.

 

[Puffin10032]

Interested in the expected lifespan in comparison to the main and genny - I know it's a "How long is a piece of string?" question .... but I'd like it to last a good few years.

Sorry I'm out of string; I can only lay my hands on a piece of elastic You often see the range 5-7 years bandied around for laminated sails in general.

 

[RAI]

Sorry I'm out of string; I can only lay my hands on a piece of elastic You often see the range 5-7 years bandied around for laminated sails in general.

The taffeta and UV strip extend the sails life for cruising. I guess the racers using bare laminated sails reduce top weight and hold their form race competitive.
When I got mine, many of the European sail makers were actually having their sails made by China Sails, which had invested in the moulds for laying up the laminates. Maybe, others have done that now.

 

[Puffin10032]

The taffeta and UV strip extend the sails life for cruising. I guess the racers using bare laminated sails reduce top weight and hold their form race competitive.
When I got mine, many of the European sail makers were actually having their sails made by China Sails, which had invested in the moulds for laying up the laminates. Maybe, others have done that now.

No-one here is talking about racing sails. The OP is not having his main or jib made out of laminate. We're just talking about his cruising Code Zero here.

You are, of course, fully aware of the three main methods currently used for manufacturing laminate sails. You will therefore be fully aware of the pros and cons of each method and the weakness of the moulding method which makes it probably the worse of the methods in terms of sail longevity and thus a poor choice for a cruiser IMHO. As far as I am aware, the OPs Code Zero will not be moulded.

 

[ashtead]

On topic of headsail sleeves the idea seems attractive but I guess as gently and jib come with uv strips I have never seen need. That said I know maxi 1300 and such like seem to favour so crusing yachts do have -I have never seen a Bav with one but maybe in Med more often seen . I think for many though the faff of fitting might discourage usage? When leaving the boat I always put a sail tie around furled gunny and jib which I do in perhaps mistaken belief it might stop unfurling along with the sheet winds around the Genoa . Do you have a sleeve as well as uv strips ? Our main issue on headsails is black spotting of mould though in uk not sun damage as found in the balmy Croatian climate.