Why are bavarias so cheap?

[jimi]

Re: Early breakages?

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_masafety_030920.pdf

read the report and do'nt stop at the AWB bit. There's quite a bit "between the lines!"

IMHo any surveyo who has'nt founf damage after a boat has been dropped is not doing his job. iN actual fact a heavy solid boat may be more susceptible to damage, the kinetic energy has got to go somewhere and this may be absorbed more by hull flex on a lighter built craft. Bouncing a boat off the hard is in no way a measure of its seaworthiness.

 

[zefender]

I've crossed the channel in a F8 (reducing to F6), got caught in a F8 crossing Biscay, another time off Cascais and encountered several very boisterous squalls in the ARC last month. All in a Bav 40. And, shock horror, I'm still alive!

Of course there are loads of boats that might be much more comfortable in such conditions but I never felt the boat or I was in peril.

The sheer number of Bav/Bens/Jens about means that there will always be more stories (usually heresay, but not always) out there than with other boat marques. Some of it is pounced upon with great glee by those of a different pursuasion.

The tragedy at Sable D'olonnes was a terrible event. But frankly, if I remember the details correctly, they shouldn't have left port. I've been there in good weather (yes, in a Bav again) and it's not a place to linger when faced with big seas, in any boat.

 

[StugeronSteve]

I've never sailed into, or out of, Les Sable d'Olonne, but having stood on the beach, in February, watching the Atlantic breakers roll across the harbour entrance, I wouldn't have been persuaded to put to sea for all of the money in the world.

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the Ben 380 comment read the maib report. Yes a very poor AVS (that I note have been improved on in recent designs) aggrevated by mast radar and other factors. I would agree with all the critics of AWB's that they do slam in a sea, are less able to beat off a lee shore and probably require better seamanship in really bad conditions but as Jimi pointed out they are selling well and westerlies/contessa's etc are effectively no more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Roger

To add to what you said, the AVS or the STIX figures are just figures too not written in stone to be disregarded at your peril. As I understand it is is WAVES that turn boats over not wind and the wrong wave will do that to any small vessel we are ever likely to own/use irrespective of AVS/STIX. The low AVS figures for the OVNIs, regarded as up market, comes to mind as being a bit frightening yet plenty have circumnavigated as have countless multihulls.

There is also selected illustration on here of incidents relating to so called AWBs with no balance in incidents involving traditional or up market designs. Yet anyone who has read Adlard Coles 'Heavy Weather Sailing' will see that there were plenty of incidents involving so called traditional boats with all their heavyweight and long keels and these were mostly crewed by experienced tough race crews - yet they hove to or sheltered rather than go upwind in F8, now a commonplace capability.

Just quickly from memory I recall:-

A big Rival, 'Adfins Rival', I think a 41 footer sank in Biscay with one life lost from the broken up liferaft, one survived.

One of the Whitbread boats rolled or knocked down in Biscay 'Creightons Naturally' I think a Swan 65?

In another post I mentioned a friend's son was rescued in Biscay after his Contessa 32 sank last year.


Again re build quality a few quickly from memory:-

Swan warnings re defective rudders

Swedish Yachts keels

Contessa 32 cracking bow panels, flexing over bulkheads.

Rival Bowman built Starlights with delaminating hulls

Westerly bilge keel reinforcements

Bendy Westerly rudder shafts

A local Nauticat with osmosis at 5 years old, likewise Grand Soleil

Countless big Westerlys/HRs etc with delaminating teak decks



The slamming too which is frequently atributed solely to AWBs is not in fact limited to them but rather is a feature of modern underwater design. If you look at a modern HR or similar you will see even the shape of those has followed the trend away from deep forefoots. There is no doubt however that big fat sterns do not lend themselves to easy steering upwind if heeled too far and big stern cabins exagerate the trend but then who wants to sail at 45degs? The big fat sterns though do assist downwind and where do you see skinny narrow raceboats these days?

People IMHO in glass houses should beware throwing stones!

Once again, not supporting Bavaria or AWBs pe se nor decrying The likes of HR/Swan, merely supporting fair and justifiable discussion rather than snobbery or prejudice.

Robin

 

[Twister_Ken]

"forefoots"

Forefeet?

 

[ccscott49]

They're crap! That's the catch. Look beyond the fittings.

 

[Robin]

I did wonder! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Bit like I wondered on Breakfast TV this morning when Sheila Hancock was intoduced as an 'Actor' rather than 'Actress', the screen banner said the same. I guess it is no longer PC to be male or female, that'll confuse our latin friends...

 

[zefender]

Thanks for the detailed analysis Colin :-}

 

[Twister_Ken]

Fittings on Bavs I've seen are all reputable brand name hardware, so not crap, but probably cheap bought in the quantities that the lederhosenfolk must order.

 

[zefender]

Re: Sshhh

Very kind of you to point out the flaw in Colin's thesis but best you don't be seen to defend Bavs, Ken. people will talk and begin to believe that hell is freezing over.


P.S. Secretly, I'm in love with a Twister too

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Sshhh

Zeff,

I'm only talking 'bout the bleedy winches, etc.

What they're screwed onto is undoubtedly a pile of carp, and Bav owners can be seen crying into their beer at yotparx from Munich to Musselburgh.

Frankly, I'm surprised 'About Time' made it out of Portsmouth Harbour entrance let alone past the Beaulieu River without the third self-tapper on the left in the spare loo-roll holder (aft heads) rusting through and giving you soggy asswipes for the next 5000 nm.

 

[graham]

Re: Sshhhite

[ QUOTE ]
rusting through and giving you soggy asswipes

[/ QUOTE ]

Ken you really are behind the times ,Soggy arsewipes are the latest must have accessory now.Please try to keep up will you. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Re: Sshhhite

True story - a chap visited somebody else's house for dinner. Felt the urge for a 'pony and trap' and having had a glass of wine or two, decided to make use of the wet wipes kindly provided.

Unfortunately they turned out to be Domestos wipes for the porcelain - it took a day or two for the soreness to go away..... but his blond highlights lasted several weeks !! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[LeonF]

Re: Early breakages?

Makes sense heavy vs light, but the surveyor was astonished, and the owner is very knowledgeable and capable. In my experience of purchasing anything you get what you pay for !!

 

[Sailfree]

I also thought they were cheap until I listed out the complete specification and compared the Bav price to other AWB's.

Yes they are good value for money with massive economies of scale but not much cheaper (if at all) than some of their competitors.

I posted the above but was assured by the response that Bavs are some £20k cheaper than other AWB's

At the boat show yesterday we had a look on the Bav 30 for £33k as we were staggered that it's less than many pay for a car. Witnessed 3 people discussing boat. One a prospective purchaser with a shocked look on his face trying to answer his friend question "How did £33k become £50K?" It seemed rude to impose on his misery and spoilt dream so left before the answer. I was impressed with the boat though at £33k and really like the lighter interiors.

Bavs are getting lighter in kgs as well though we have 2 Bav 38's on the charter fleet and the older heavier one outsails the newer one. I am aware that keel weight is certainly one factor.

 

[LeonF]

Decided to actually go on board and look at one today....quite impressed I was. Liked the solid rods tying the shroud anchorages into the hull, the engine access, the layout ( except the forepeak, surely designed for kids or midgets) the engine access, though perhaps a fold up engine cover is not a good idea if making emergency repairs in a seaway and that wonderful heads !! Perhaps too beamy to really sail well but someone else can pass judgement on that. For my money I would prefer the Hanse 315... a much classier interior, and somehow just felt a more solid boat. And then there is the Island Packet.........

 

[rhinorhino]

Cause they are Cr*p
"Apparent value" I think the answers in the question.
Try resale value - HRs go UP, yes UP at about 3% a year.
One year at SIBS I questioned the fixing of a grab rail on a bav (it was held on by two 8mm machice screws) salesman says "its fine", me "are you sure?", salesman "yes" I then hung from it (about 90 kgs) not only did it come away but it brought a lot of the head lining with it. Yes, I have tried this on the HR.
OK they are cheap but don't mistake them for proper yachts.

 

[peterb]

Theory of relativity

I haven't seen any cheap boats around (even Bavs). It's just that some boats aren't so expensive!