Why are bavarias so cheap?

[jimi]

Re: Match Keel problem ...

Think most are missing the point here, the prime functional of a yacht is not transport but a cross between a leisure toy and a weekend cottage.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Weekend cottage

"the prime functional of a yacht is not transport but a cross between a leisure toy and a weekend cottage. "

- in that case, why not chop off the keel and mast and park it under a tree, handy for a good pub.

 

[jimi]

Re: Weekend cottage

Cos you would'nt be able to sail it thus removing a large part of the leisure toy functionality ya dimwit!

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
So, carefully avoiding comparing it to other boats, and judging it individually on its own merit, and only for the purpose it will be used, you mean it's cr@p or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Which specific 'it' to you want me comment on? If it is on any individual boat from the Bavaria range I will admit I am NOT qualified to comment, simply because my knowledge of them is limited to reading magazine articles, looking at one model briefly at a boat show and listening to the owners of some in our club. Now if you were to look at Zefender's comments and read his log of the recent ARC crossing in his Bavaria 40 'About Time' then that would be a much more informed view than mine and I suspect of many here who feel 'qualified' to give cut & paste critiscm.

I'm a firm believer in original thought as opposed to blind prejudice. Think Tanks beat sheep dips if there is to be progress or we would all be sailing miniature Mary Roses with dugout canoes as tenders.

BTW the son of a friend of mine was rescued in Biscay when his Contessa 32 sank. The Contessa 34s suffered badly in the infamous 1979 Fastnet Race and yet the Contessa 32s did well. What sweeping generalisations should I make about all that? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Guest]

Well, I didn't actually make any criticism of Bavarias (except to say that bicycles are faster and cars better value). So the thought police have arrived a little too early as far as I'm concerned.
!

 

[Guest]

BTW

You raised an important point about Contessa 34's. It's worth highlighting. As I'm sure you know, the Fastnet 1979 enquiry praised the stability and other seaworthiness characteristics of the Contessa 32 and compared it highly unfavourably against the likes of the Contessa 34. The Contessa 34 with its lightweight, wide-bodied design with a low AVS was one of the racing precursors of the fashion of similarly shaped cruisers which followed, of which the Bavaria is an example.

Unfortunately the lessons of the Fastnet disaster have been forgotten remarkably quickly There is a rush to provide greater accommodation space which looks good at boat shows and lighter weight which allows 'value for money' - less materials and at the same time helps the boat to keep moving in light airs.

The discussion about build quality IMHO is almost a side issue in comparison. There, now you can get the handcuffs.

 

[Robin]

Why am I the 'Thought Police'? Unlike some around here I am trying to PROMOTE individual thought rather than repetitious hearsay and I have no axe at all to grind vis a vis Bavarias. The hearsay and rumour may or may not be correct, and may be correct to one and incorrect to another depending on their individual context, so FREE thinking surely is better. Do your own research IMHO don't listen blindly to the mate of your brother in law who got it as gospel from the HR owners Association...

If that view makes me the 'Thought Police', there is no hope.

 

[Guest]

Well, you were suggesting that I was making sweeping generalisations criticising Bavarias, but actually I hadn't made any such criticism (that was before I mentioned the Fastnet). SO I presumed that you must be reading my thoughts!

 

[KevB]

I hope all the sailors on here slagging off Bavs own hand made, small production, over priced, traditional cars? If not, why not?

 

[duncan]

[ QUOTE ]
you were suggesting that I was making sweeping generalisations criticising Bavarias, but actually I hadn't made any such criticism

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
No, don't have a car, I have a bicycle. If I were thinking of buying a Bavaria I'd probably buy a car instead though. You get more for your money

[/ QUOTE ]

now you are insulting us

why should I (or anyone else) read your comments if you can't even be bothered to keep yourself up to date with what you have already said in any particular thread?

 

[tcm]

heehee. good point kevb

I didn't like bav and bens when they had v dark wood down below but seems the newer bavs much brighter. Wouldn't have white seats tho! Cobalt Blue alcantara material would be stunning ( i have seen it with light oak) with that colour wood but er probly put up the price a bit. No prob for resale tho!

 

[Guest]

Don't read them then. Try the Ignore User button.

I don't see that a comment on what remarkably good value cars are and the fact that I'd rather like to buy one is a generalisation about the build quality or even sailing quality of Bavarias. I hadn't commented on these. Bavarias are probably built like the QEII and sail like Rolls Royces.

 

[Sailfree]

There seems to be a trend that first people criticise, then others criticise the criticism, then instead of responding people claim the intervention of the "thought police".

You make cogent arguments and don't need to respond in this way.

Keep making your point.

 

[KevB]

I think the bav mobo's look very outdated with all the darkish wood inside but the 46 sail boat we looked at I thought was fab. Couldn't believe the space and feel inside for what amounts to no more money than an average second hand 30 footish mobo.

Having had a quick google it seems that there is not much of a saving buying a 8 year old second hand bav 46. I can't believe I'm tempted.... So much so we (swmbo and I) had a conversation in bed last night about where to keep it???

 

[tcm]

phwoar, what a turn-on. I thought you were considering shared ownership tho? Who else was in bed?

 

[Robin]

Re: BTW

[ QUOTE ]
You raised an important point about Contessa 34's. It's worth highlighting. As I'm sure you know, the Fastnet 1979 enquiry praised the stability and other seaworthiness characteristics of the Contessa 32 and compared it highly unfavourably against the likes of the Contessa 34. The Contessa 34 with its lightweight, wide-bodied design with a low AVS was one of the racing precursors of the fashion of similarly shaped cruisers which followed, of which the Bavaria is an example.

Unfortunately the lessons of the Fastnet disaster have been forgotten remarkably quickly There is a rush to provide greater accommodation space which looks good at boat shows and lighter weight which allows 'value for money' - less materials and at the same time helps the boat to keep moving in light airs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly I used the Co32 and Co34 (OOD34) as examples of two different boats from the same manufacturer that had different experiences in the 1979 Fastnet disaster, ie as an illustration that it is dangerous to generalise that ALL Jeremy Rogers built boats were good and ALL Bavaria (or any other make) built boats are bad. I actually however don't believe the Co34/OOD34s are bad boats at all, as unlike Bavarias I HAVE sailed/raced them and would still buy one if I was in that size/type/price market. The C034s were actually in a different sea area of the storm to the slower Co32s anyway. You may also remember the UFO34 'Black Arrow', in Fastnet '79 was a Class winner as well as finisher and she is a wide bodied fin keeler of similar ilk.

Secondly as far as build quality is concerned I would not hold up the (original not recent like yours) Jeremy Rogers Co32s as the standard bearer because they had defects like too flexible forward panels that cracked over bulkheads. Later versions had extra stringers moulded in to cure the problem I believe.

I go back to what I keep saying which is to judge something on it's merits for what YOU wish it to do. Listen to others comments by all means but at least put those comments into the right perspective. We all favour our own choices and this will always colour what we think but unless we have direct and relevant experience it is unfair to criticise something different simply from our own prejudices.

BTW I think the Co32 is still one of the prettiest boats afloat and undeniably capable. I used to own an Elizabethan 30 way back which was often then considered the 'poor man's' Contessa, designed by David Thomas of Sigma fame and almost identical below to the Co32. At the time I loved that Liz and still rate them, but I have moved on long since so nowadays I prefer speed in all wind strengths and all the home comforts too. By the same token I no longer drive an MG TC or 1275 Mini Cooper and now drive a Honda C-RV (Automobile 4x4 Bavaria?)

 

[KevB]

[ QUOTE ]
Who else was in bed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam...... But he is only three and wasn't feeling to well.

The problem with us (swmbo and I) we have loads of plans but not enough money to fullfill them. So after seeing what you get for your money with the Bav 46 this has possibly delayed us buying a holiday apartment but instead have the bav?

Just need to find the money now /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[duncan]

Simon I wouldn't use the ignore button on you as I put a significant value your contribution on this and other threads - nad to paraphrase your good self 'I don't think I stated anyting to the contrary in my post here!'

However I did find your specific observation to Robin 'insulting' given the post I quoted; and even your response to me disingenious at best -

How you could expect anyone to read

[ QUOTE ]
No, don't have a car, I have a bicycle. If I were thinking of buying a Bavaria I'd probably buy a car instead though. You get more for your money

[/ QUOTE ]

as anyting other than a generally negative observation on the value of Bavarias remain beyond me. That's all. If you feel that cars are better value than (all) boats then why not say so? I am sure that would be a stimulating thread!

I am not in any way making any observation on them (Bavarias), or any other boat - or cars, or cars......

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Re: BTW

[ QUOTE ]
judge something on it's merits for what YOU wish it to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wholeheartedly agree.

In my earlier months on the forum, I took the micky out of Bavaria's partly because I knew a couple of the owners on here. Then quickly got bored with the same old argument, and realised that what is attractive to one person is unattractive to another.

I wouldn't buy a Bav myself, but most of their owners wouldn't want a 16yr old Moody - which I love and cherish.

(BTW, good to see you back on the forum, Robin. )

 

[jimi]

Re: BTW

Have you got a webcam enabled forum Mr Shy_Talk?