max
New member
Went to the boat show at the weekend and was knocked out by the apparent value of the Bavaria 39. You get an awful lot of boat for your money. Whats the catch?
Why are bavarias so cheap?
- Thread starter max
- Start date
Talbot
Active member
ask the people whose keels fell off?
trouville
N/A
exactly! they are really badly built! Last summer one touched a rock with its rudder and the rudder fell apart!!
An International Folkboat did the same but could sail home to look and repair i hit a rock as well and dident need to repair at all (almost had hart failure when it happend though)
An International Folkboat did the same but could sail home to look and repair i hit a rock as well and dident need to repair at all (almost had hart failure when it happend though)
tcm
...
um, if the rudders were a real issue, loads would fall off, not just a few. And wasn't it the lightweight race versions that had the prob?
The low price is due firstly to the volume of boats they shift, surely.
Secondly the fact that lots of things standard on other boats are extra on bavs. Like even shower drain frinstance. I suppose the tendency for secondhand values must be that these extra are worth almost nothing so one oughta be careful loading it up with chartplotters etc when all the charter versions won't have these and would "seem cheaper" on the secondhand market.
The low price is due firstly to the volume of boats they shift, surely.
Secondly the fact that lots of things standard on other boats are extra on bavs. Like even shower drain frinstance. I suppose the tendency for secondhand values must be that these extra are worth almost nothing so one oughta be careful loading it up with chartplotters etc when all the charter versions won't have these and would "seem cheaper" on the secondhand market.
jimi
Well-known member
Oh, how I miss ze hills und dales und vales und trails of old Bavaria
Oh, it's such bliss to kiss the Miss I miss like this in old Bavaria
Oh, ze meadows und ze mountains und ze sky
Not to mention hordes of brown shirts passing by...
Bring a tear to every single Nazi eye
In old - I'm talking old - Bavaria!
Oh, it's such bliss to kiss the Miss I miss like this in old Bavaria
Oh, ze meadows und ze mountains und ze sky
Not to mention hordes of brown shirts passing by...
Bring a tear to every single Nazi eye
In old - I'm talking old - Bavaria!
rwoofer
Active member
Bavaria sell loads and have invested heavily in production efficiency - machines, process and part sharing across models eg. same pushpit corner across all models.
The same things that made cars cheaper really.
The same things that made cars cheaper really.
jimi
Well-known member
Song for Bavarias keels to fall off to
Haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a bang
Mit a boom
Mit a bing-bang bing-bang boom
Aaah, haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a bang
Mit a boom
Mit a bing-bang bing-bang boom
Russian folksongs und French oo-la-la
Can't compare with a German oom-pah-pah!
Ve're sayin'...
Haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a zetz, mit a zap, mit a zing...
Polish polkas, they're stupid und they're rotten
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
Schweigen-reigen-schone-schutzen-schmutzen sauerbraten!
Ve're sayin'...
Haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a zetz, mit a zap, mit a zing...
It's ze only kind of musik
Zat ve huns und our honeys
Love to sing!
Haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a bang
Mit a boom
Mit a bing-bang bing-bang boom
Aaah, haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a bang
Mit a boom
Mit a bing-bang bing-bang boom
Russian folksongs und French oo-la-la
Can't compare with a German oom-pah-pah!
Ve're sayin'...
Haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a zetz, mit a zap, mit a zing...
Polish polkas, they're stupid und they're rotten
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
Schweigen-reigen-schone-schutzen-schmutzen sauerbraten!
Ve're sayin'...
Haben sie gehort das Deutsche Band
Mit a zetz, mit a zap, mit a zing...
It's ze only kind of musik
Zat ve huns und our honeys
Love to sing!
jonathankent
New member
I have heard that they complete one every 45mins or so!
StellaGirl
New member
check what sort of warranty they offer too - I believe they save money here too....
Sailfree
Well-known member
I also thought they were cheap until I listed out the complete specification and compared the Bav price to other AWB's.
Yes they are good value for money with massive economies of scale but not much cheaper (if at all) than some of their competitors.
Now if the headline price is getting cheaper and marinas getting dearer what year do you forecast the cost of mooring will equal the purchase price.
Yes they are good value for money with massive economies of scale but not much cheaper (if at all) than some of their competitors.
Now if the headline price is getting cheaper and marinas getting dearer what year do you forecast the cost of mooring will equal the purchase price.
jimi
Well-known member
Song of a happy Bavaria owner
Você sorriu pra mim
Então me fez sonhar
E eu acreditei no que disse o seu olhar
Que eu seria feliz
Feliz ao lado seu
E pra sempre o seu
Amor seria só meu
Como é bom amar
Ter o teu amor
Como é bom sonhar
Sempre com você
Como é bom viver
Feliz ao lado seu
E sempre te querer
Eu quero você
Depois daquele olhar
Mudei o jeito de ser
Tenho o teu amor
Razão do meu viver
E agora eu sou feliz
Feliz ao lado seu
E pra sempre o meu amor
Será só seu
Você sorriu pra mim
Então me fez sonhar
E eu acreditei no que disse o seu olhar
Que eu seria feliz
Feliz ao lado seu
E pra sempre o seu
Amor seria só meu
Como é bom amar
Ter o teu amor
Como é bom sonhar
Sempre com você
Como é bom viver
Feliz ao lado seu
E sempre te querer
Eu quero você
Depois daquele olhar
Mudei o jeito de ser
Tenho o teu amor
Razão do meu viver
E agora eu sou feliz
Feliz ao lado seu
E pra sempre o meu amor
Será só seu
dulcibella
Active member
Re: Song of a happy Bavaria owner
Obrigado!
Obrigado!
jimi
Well-known member
Re: Song of a happy Bavaria owner
A menos que você roubar um banco
A menos que você roubar um banco
JasB
New member
you all have a strange definition of "cheap"
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
ask the people whose keels fell off?
exactly! they are really badly built! Last summer one touched a rock with its rudder and the rudder fell apart!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Unsuprising responses........ and complete rubbish as any impartial person will maintain..... (I don't have a Bav, but an MAB)... the keel issues were on the Match, and are still hotly contested as to cause......
Most AWB's would suffer if they hit a rock..... not just Bavarias.....
And comparing two incidents is impossible anyway, as the point of contact on the rudder, the angle, the rock shape etc etc all play a part...... I am sure that with a bit of effort we could just as easily break the rudder of a Folkboat....
I'm assuming that bits falling of the bottom of boats is a symptom of a cheap boat?...... umhhhh perhaps someone should tell the Volvo Ocean Race guys that, who have all spent many many millions on theirs.....
As TCM said, Bavaria have just out performed the market as a business, and can now produce cheaper boats because of their volume....
ask the people whose keels fell off?
exactly! they are really badly built! Last summer one touched a rock with its rudder and the rudder fell apart!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Unsuprising responses........ and complete rubbish as any impartial person will maintain..... (I don't have a Bav, but an MAB)... the keel issues were on the Match, and are still hotly contested as to cause......
Most AWB's would suffer if they hit a rock..... not just Bavarias.....
And comparing two incidents is impossible anyway, as the point of contact on the rudder, the angle, the rock shape etc etc all play a part...... I am sure that with a bit of effort we could just as easily break the rudder of a Folkboat....
I'm assuming that bits falling of the bottom of boats is a symptom of a cheap boat?...... umhhhh perhaps someone should tell the Volvo Ocean Race guys that, who have all spent many many millions on theirs.....
As TCM said, Bavaria have just out performed the market as a business, and can now produce cheaper boats because of their volume....
Colin_S
New member
Answering a question with another question............
Why are other AWB's so expensive?
Why are other AWB's so expensive?
WayneS
Active member
Sorry Talbot... trying to reply as nicely as I can while my blood boils.
I think that this one has been done to death and if you do a little research you may find that the boat that suffered the keel problem fared a well as any other AWB would have under the same mis-treatment.
I seem to remember that a year or so ago a Hanse had a rudder drop off. What about the Legend that had to be sunk during the Arc a couple of years back. Do their issues mean that all Hanse and Legends are rubbish? What about the HT that capsized a couple of years back. Does this mean that all Cats are rubbish?
Lets move on from this fallacy
W
(Yes, I do have an interest. Our Bavaria gets delivered in a month's time)
I think that this one has been done to death and if you do a little research you may find that the boat that suffered the keel problem fared a well as any other AWB would have under the same mis-treatment.
I seem to remember that a year or so ago a Hanse had a rudder drop off. What about the Legend that had to be sunk during the Arc a couple of years back. Do their issues mean that all Hanse and Legends are rubbish? What about the HT that capsized a couple of years back. Does this mean that all Cats are rubbish?
Lets move on from this fallacy
W
(Yes, I do have an interest. Our Bavaria gets delivered in a month's time)
WayneS
Active member
Have to disagree with you.
Recently specced out and ordered a new Bavaria 33 and, fully equipped as WE want her, the Bav come our a good 20K less that the others that be looked at.
And in some areas we have way more that we would have had we gone for a different boat.
There were only two boats that met our criteria for stowage and space inside (in the 33-35' range) and they were the Najad and the New Bav. Could not be from more opposite ends of the spectrum. The Najad would have cost us twice as much for the same feature spec. All the other AWB's that we looked at had deficiencies that would have made the boat far less useable, for us. (Stowage, Headroom, features....)
I would rather take the £20K odd that we are saving and invest that to offset the so called resale loss that we are going to suffer, knowing that at least we have a boat that is comfortable for what we want to use it for.
Don't get me wrong, I do not think that the Bav is the best boat on the market. It's all about horses for courses. If I was planning an arctic cruise I would have had different buying criteria.
The bottom line is that there is no better value for money than the Bavaria and anybody who buys a different new boat should be thanking the likes of Bavaria for keeping the market honest about the pricing of AWB's.
Sorry, about the rant, not a pop at you but I think that there are too many people who discount the Bavaria range without doing proper research.
Recently specced out and ordered a new Bavaria 33 and, fully equipped as WE want her, the Bav come our a good 20K less that the others that be looked at.
And in some areas we have way more that we would have had we gone for a different boat.
There were only two boats that met our criteria for stowage and space inside (in the 33-35' range) and they were the Najad and the New Bav. Could not be from more opposite ends of the spectrum. The Najad would have cost us twice as much for the same feature spec. All the other AWB's that we looked at had deficiencies that would have made the boat far less useable, for us. (Stowage, Headroom, features....)
I would rather take the £20K odd that we are saving and invest that to offset the so called resale loss that we are going to suffer, knowing that at least we have a boat that is comfortable for what we want to use it for.
Don't get me wrong, I do not think that the Bav is the best boat on the market. It's all about horses for courses. If I was planning an arctic cruise I would have had different buying criteria.
The bottom line is that there is no better value for money than the Bavaria and anybody who buys a different new boat should be thanking the likes of Bavaria for keeping the market honest about the pricing of AWB's.
Sorry, about the rant, not a pop at you but I think that there are too many people who discount the Bavaria range without doing proper research.
Sailfree
Well-known member
I am not sure what you were comparing it with - I went through that exercise twice comparing a 36 Bav and later a 38 Bav to other AWB's. After I had gone through it line by line including literally the mooring lines and teaspoons the Bav was not drastically that much cheaper (On that occassion I bought a Dufour 36). I am not knocking the Bav at all its a great value boat that is encouraging many to buy their first big boat and more to buy bigger. Its just that headline prices can be misleading.
When bought my last boat (2005) there was not a Bav equivalent so I have not done the costing exercise recently. Maybe their recent prices are even more competitive.
Like you I hate it when people just jump on the bandwagon and critise with little objectivity. I do think the fact they are so economical new and readily available does adversly affect their 2nd hand value (say compared to a HR). I know my cousin was upset when Bav were offering a new 36 for the price of a 34 a few years back and for personal reasons he was selling his 34 to get a MoBo.
Boats are like people -look closely and you will see some virtue in each.
When bought my last boat (2005) there was not a Bav equivalent so I have not done the costing exercise recently. Maybe their recent prices are even more competitive.
Like you I hate it when people just jump on the bandwagon and critise with little objectivity. I do think the fact they are so economical new and readily available does adversly affect their 2nd hand value (say compared to a HR). I know my cousin was upset when Bav were offering a new 36 for the price of a 34 a few years back and for personal reasons he was selling his 34 to get a MoBo.
Boats are like people -look closely and you will see some virtue in each.
cardinal_mark
New member
[ QUOTE ]
.Whats the catch?
[/ QUOTE ]
If they are pumping one out every 15mins or so I would have thought the biggest catch is that once you've moored up in the local marina you'll never be able to find it again - your gleaming new joy will be lost in a sea of identical Bav's and the only way you'll ever find it again will to try your key in every single one! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Seriously though I do believe that within this ubiquity there there lies the catch and this revolves around some sort of dilution of emotional attachment.
As far as I can tell, the vast majority of Bav owners are quite happy with their choice; but I rarely hear them rave about their boats. Support of the marque is often much more rationally premised (value, lot of boat, does it job etc etc) rather than anything fired with a real emotion or passion. FWIW, I think that once the real and on-going costs of ownership begin to kick in, if that passion isn't there the owners perceived value equation can easily become negative. Maybe that's one more reason why there are so many recent examples on the brokerage market?
To my mind, whilst Bavarias are 'good' they're are not 'special', and thats the catch.
Running for cover!!!!
Mark
.Whats the catch?
[/ QUOTE ]
If they are pumping one out every 15mins or so I would have thought the biggest catch is that once you've moored up in the local marina you'll never be able to find it again - your gleaming new joy will be lost in a sea of identical Bav's and the only way you'll ever find it again will to try your key in every single one! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Seriously though I do believe that within this ubiquity there there lies the catch and this revolves around some sort of dilution of emotional attachment.
As far as I can tell, the vast majority of Bav owners are quite happy with their choice; but I rarely hear them rave about their boats. Support of the marque is often much more rationally premised (value, lot of boat, does it job etc etc) rather than anything fired with a real emotion or passion. FWIW, I think that once the real and on-going costs of ownership begin to kick in, if that passion isn't there the owners perceived value equation can easily become negative. Maybe that's one more reason why there are so many recent examples on the brokerage market?
To my mind, whilst Bavarias are 'good' they're are not 'special', and thats the catch.
Running for cover!!!!
Mark
