MystereMarcus
Member
Just looked at the Seaward site and fully agree the 42 and 39 look very impressive. The full width cockpit on the 39 seems such a sensible idea it begs the question why they didn't do it on the 42 also.
Southampton Boat Show
- Thread starter petem
- Start date
Firefly625
Well-known member
Shame they don't offer both, in many ways I quite like the full length side decks, it's just such a pilot boat look. They have fender storage lockers each side set in the decks so space used well.
tico
Well-known member
Think of the Dale Nelsons.... was chatting to them at the w/end and apparently they have only built 3 aft cockpit 38s, all the rest are aft cabin versions.
Firefly625
Well-known member
Firefly625
Well-known member
Doesn't surprise me, but low freeboard and aft cockpit suits us well for various reasons. Stick an aft cabin on and you get a staircase down to wheelhouse and a high back end.
Blue Sunray
Well-known member
I liked the Seaward 42 but did (still) prefer the E4, very underwhelmed by the Aquastar
Garold
Well-known member
We test sailed a Seaward 35 off St Peter Port in about 25-30 knots of wind.
If the Seawards all behave the same, the sea keeping is very impressive. My wife didn't like the rock and roll but as an inter-island mobo they really feel like they are made to go to sea in all weathers.
Unfortunately our offer was rejected. But it was my problem because the boat sold a few months later at £50k closer to the asking price than I was willing to go. It did take more than a year to sell though so it's a small market.
Garold
If the Seawards all behave the same, the sea keeping is very impressive. My wife didn't like the rock and roll but as an inter-island mobo they really feel like they are made to go to sea in all weathers.
Unfortunately our offer was rejected. But it was my problem because the boat sold a few months later at £50k closer to the asking price than I was willing to go. It did take more than a year to sell though so it's a small market.
Garold
dash300
Active member
Attended SIBS today having not visited for a couple of years and concur with others that it is a shadow of its former self. Rather too many empty finger pontoons and insufficient visitors to keep the Reps from yawning. Managed a couple of hours and sadly left a little disappointed.
paul salliss
Well-known member
you are not wrong, but the masses dont buy that type of quality boat. I believe they are taken in by an image (as I once was as well)
Firefly625
Well-known member
But the E4 is just huge, 50 ft from memory plus around 10ft freeboard
paul salliss
Well-known member
Nearly bought an E3 once. But my wife did not like all the living space being so low down in the boat so went Broom and we are both delighted. Elling is a class act personally I loved it
Blue Sunray
Well-known member
Yes 49ft I think, but the E3 is pretty comparable and at 45ft in the size same bracket as the Seaward (well that's what I keep telling my wife). I mentioned the E4 as it was the one there and that freeboard does give a lot of space.
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Blue Sunray
Well-known member
Interesting, having taken rather a fancy to a Broom last year my wife loved the E4's (any by extension the E3's) living space this year, though I have some sympathy with the view that it a bit in the bowels of the vessel I think it works well, though coming from a raggie background probably influences this view.
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Firefly625
Well-known member
Yes the Elling is nice but it is all below decks living and just getting too big for us.
jfm
Well-known member
Well, there is an image thing with these Nelsons and Dales too. The nelson look, blue hull and D section fendering also are an image. It's other things that make a boat excellent.
paul salliss
Well-known member
Probably best if we simply agree to disagree or we will be here all night, more interested in why Elecglitch was unimpressed by the Aquastar to be honest.
jfm
Well-known member
Just my random thoughts and ramblings from SIBS boat show last weekend.
1. I liked it. I don't particularly notice whether it is full or busy and I didn't particularly notice the empty pontoons that others have mentioned. All seemed perfectly boatshow-ish to me!
2. I hate being herded and that whole thing detracts from the show's appeal. When I left I walked up the "wrong" bridge from the pontoons to the terra firma part and the security guards yelled at me not to but I ignored them. Worked fine. Then I turned right and exited through that little side gate (where I came in, with Fairline's kind help of a VIP pass) and again they yelled that I wasn't allowed to but I already had so what ere they going to do - arrest me on a public street? Anyway, my point is: do as you wish and resist being herded for marketing reasons
3. I loved that English Harbour Yachts boat. It's beautiful, well built, and cleverly designed. It offers a quality of finish and level of luxury that you rarely see in this size of production boat. They have some interesting new versions/designs all CAD-ed up, some aimed squarely at warmer/mediterranean markets. I wish them well
4. I looked hard at Princess 75 and tried to love it but I'm finding it hard. I realise this is a first world problem of course so I'm taking in relative terms. Princess have selected some beautiful materials to finish the boat and the first impression is outstanding. But under the skin there is some cost cutting that makes you gasp. I removed the velcroed on panel in the crew cabin that reveals the rudder gear (they used stapled on velcro; no 3M Dual Lock) and it revealed plywood panels that have been cut by hand without the saw wielder even imagining a straight line let alone marking one out. The cut lines were all over the place, with no apparent care over whether things lined up, and there were many many splinters 10mm long sticking out from the saw cuts; think hand sawn c10mm plywood cut fast with a coarse toothed hand saw and no sandpaper at all. As you exit the crew area there is a s/s fiddle rail along the edge of the fore-aft crew bed, attached by No14 countersink screws in holes in the ss plates that have been countersunk for No8 screws, more than a dozen of them. I guess the financial underperformance created during the Chris Gates period has led to severe cost cutting and reduction of labour time allowed for the build. Then up in the owner areas it looks great at first pass, but as you stand on beautiful jacaranda carpet that pushes e100/sqm retail (is a cost option) you see flaws in the wood lacquer, those awful Foresti Suardi cupboard door knobs everywhere, a bachelor pad small pizza oven (the very bottom one in Miele's range; has mechanical knobs) and a 450mm bachelor pad dishwasher. The galley is basically useless, designed by folks who have never lived and entertained properly on an 75-80 footer with 8 guests; it's only redeeming feature is the excellent SZ refrigeration. The flybridge is awesome (Princess have good exterior designers, though not in the Italian league) but the low windscreen (it's basically a trim strip) means you'll spend plenty of your ownership staring into a 30 knot apparent headwind and it is a heck of a job to modify it/raise it. The helms don't allow you to touch the touchscreens from the chairs - what is all that about? Not unique to Princess of course. And finally if you walk to the end of the pontoon between the 75 and the 68 and look along the the hull deck joint strip just in front of you, there is a big crease flaw in the deck moulding - not sure if it is this boat or the mould tool but it's a bit like buying a very expensive car with a dent on the door. Engine room is quite nice - could be tweaked but the main stuff was good. There is basically no serious customisation on this boat. and paying £2.5m+vat for a boat where your only choices are what's on the options list doesn't feel great. I'm trying to love it, and will try some more, but finding it hard. Selling like hot cakes though: this was hull 14 and hull 1 was at London show 9 months ago, so maybe they're making what people want, in which case fair play to them.
4. Fairline were there with a much smaller line up than yesteryear, but the team were engaging. The 53 was a nice looking boat and was slick inside, keeping up with Princess on quality of internal finishes, surface treatments/coverings etc (still had Foresti Suardi horrid door knobs, ugh. Only boat I saw with the door knobs you should have - Sugatsune Lamp - was English Harbour Yachts). This 53 is the boat with low internal headroom in the master cabin - it wouldn't worry me but it does worry some buyers so they are fixing it on later builds by raising the whole deck moulding when it gets Mancini treatment. Anyway, the thing about Fairline that most struck me was their future designs. Not just vapourware - these are designs with plans and timelines to build them. For the sector I'm interested in, their new 80-something footer was truly outstanding. Mancini is an incredibly smart guy. The design is just stunning and makes Princess 82/75 look a decade out of date. Design wise, it is up there, and a bit beyond, say the very fine new ferretti 850/800 and the new Sanlorenzos. It has plenty of similarities with those 2 sets of designs (hence you'll understand my comment about making Princess 75/82 look very out of date) plus many unique features. It also has sensible Italian thinking like an internal staircase as standard with the aft deck stairs as an option (just like Sanlorenzo). And as ever they will customise as much as you sensibly want, and relish all that. I realise that there is a heck of a lot to do to move this from design to a delivered product (and maybe 3 years - I dunno) but I'm inclined to wait for this rather than faff about with a Princess 75 or 82 in the meantime.
1. I liked it. I don't particularly notice whether it is full or busy and I didn't particularly notice the empty pontoons that others have mentioned. All seemed perfectly boatshow-ish to me!
2. I hate being herded and that whole thing detracts from the show's appeal. When I left I walked up the "wrong" bridge from the pontoons to the terra firma part and the security guards yelled at me not to but I ignored them. Worked fine. Then I turned right and exited through that little side gate (where I came in, with Fairline's kind help of a VIP pass) and again they yelled that I wasn't allowed to but I already had so what ere they going to do - arrest me on a public street? Anyway, my point is: do as you wish and resist being herded for marketing reasons
3. I loved that English Harbour Yachts boat. It's beautiful, well built, and cleverly designed. It offers a quality of finish and level of luxury that you rarely see in this size of production boat. They have some interesting new versions/designs all CAD-ed up, some aimed squarely at warmer/mediterranean markets. I wish them well
4. I looked hard at Princess 75 and tried to love it but I'm finding it hard. I realise this is a first world problem of course so I'm taking in relative terms. Princess have selected some beautiful materials to finish the boat and the first impression is outstanding. But under the skin there is some cost cutting that makes you gasp. I removed the velcroed on panel in the crew cabin that reveals the rudder gear (they used stapled on velcro; no 3M Dual Lock) and it revealed plywood panels that have been cut by hand without the saw wielder even imagining a straight line let alone marking one out. The cut lines were all over the place, with no apparent care over whether things lined up, and there were many many splinters 10mm long sticking out from the saw cuts; think hand sawn c10mm plywood cut fast with a coarse toothed hand saw and no sandpaper at all. As you exit the crew area there is a s/s fiddle rail along the edge of the fore-aft crew bed, attached by No14 countersink screws in holes in the ss plates that have been countersunk for No8 screws, more than a dozen of them. I guess the financial underperformance created during the Chris Gates period has led to severe cost cutting and reduction of labour time allowed for the build. Then up in the owner areas it looks great at first pass, but as you stand on beautiful jacaranda carpet that pushes e100/sqm retail (is a cost option) you see flaws in the wood lacquer, those awful Foresti Suardi cupboard door knobs everywhere, a bachelor pad small pizza oven (the very bottom one in Miele's range; has mechanical knobs) and a 450mm bachelor pad dishwasher. The galley is basically useless, designed by folks who have never lived and entertained properly on an 75-80 footer with 8 guests; it's only redeeming feature is the excellent SZ refrigeration. The flybridge is awesome (Princess have good exterior designers, though not in the Italian league) but the low windscreen (it's basically a trim strip) means you'll spend plenty of your ownership staring into a 30 knot apparent headwind and it is a heck of a job to modify it/raise it. The helms don't allow you to touch the touchscreens from the chairs - what is all that about? Not unique to Princess of course. And finally if you walk to the end of the pontoon between the 75 and the 68 and look along the the hull deck joint strip just in front of you, there is a big crease flaw in the deck moulding - not sure if it is this boat or the mould tool but it's a bit like buying a very expensive car with a dent on the door. Engine room is quite nice - could be tweaked but the main stuff was good. There is basically no serious customisation on this boat. and paying £2.5m+vat for a boat where your only choices are what's on the options list doesn't feel great. I'm trying to love it, and will try some more, but finding it hard. Selling like hot cakes though: this was hull 14 and hull 1 was at London show 9 months ago, so maybe they're making what people want, in which case fair play to them.
4. Fairline were there with a much smaller line up than yesteryear, but the team were engaging. The 53 was a nice looking boat and was slick inside, keeping up with Princess on quality of internal finishes, surface treatments/coverings etc (still had Foresti Suardi horrid door knobs, ugh. Only boat I saw with the door knobs you should have - Sugatsune Lamp - was English Harbour Yachts). This 53 is the boat with low internal headroom in the master cabin - it wouldn't worry me but it does worry some buyers so they are fixing it on later builds by raising the whole deck moulding when it gets Mancini treatment. Anyway, the thing about Fairline that most struck me was their future designs. Not just vapourware - these are designs with plans and timelines to build them. For the sector I'm interested in, their new 80-something footer was truly outstanding. Mancini is an incredibly smart guy. The design is just stunning and makes Princess 82/75 look a decade out of date. Design wise, it is up there, and a bit beyond, say the very fine new ferretti 850/800 and the new Sanlorenzos. It has plenty of similarities with those 2 sets of designs (hence you'll understand my comment about making Princess 75/82 look very out of date) plus many unique features. It also has sensible Italian thinking like an internal staircase as standard with the aft deck stairs as an option (just like Sanlorenzo). And as ever they will customise as much as you sensibly want, and relish all that. I realise that there is a heck of a lot to do to move this from design to a delivered product (and maybe 3 years - I dunno) but I'm inclined to wait for this rather than faff about with a Princess 75 or 82 in the meantime.
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Portofino
Well-known member
Yup agree ( if I understood one of the themes ) it's what you don,t see -ie hidden ,when you start lifting floorboards and mattresses -that kills a sale ?
I up set my Gardiennes secretrary @ Cannes -he was exhibiting the Fiart brand -- and she showed us round -- 44 and 52 --the floor pannals squeeked when you stepped on them .I said --nope --- I can not ever have a boat where the floor moved and squeeked .-just killed the "sale"
I have struggled to fault San Lorenzo s -so for me a potential Target for a big FB would this .
Fit n finish --detail is all -- sat looking at it all day
I up set my Gardiennes secretrary @ Cannes -he was exhibiting the Fiart brand -- and she showed us round -- 44 and 52 --the floor pannals squeeked when you stepped on them .I said --nope --- I can not ever have a boat where the floor moved and squeeked .-just killed the "sale"
I have struggled to fault San Lorenzo s -so for me a potential Target for a big FB would this .
Fit n finish --detail is all -- sat looking at it all day
henryf
Well-known member
@JFM I think you found a last minute.com rush for the show problem in the crew cabin. I too have pull out panels (which give really good access to the stern gear) in my crew cabin and the sawmanship is fine. Similarly the pull off panel behind the crew toilet which reveals batteries, sea cocks & other goodies is large & well finished (held in by roller catches).
In my era the pop in pop out door knobs were round not square but they are very intuitive and work well. I found it frustrating on the Sunseeker 52 that I had to remember whether the square cupboard knobs hinged from the top, bottom, left or right every time I went to open something. It could be either.
The kitchen I will give you, Princess need a slap on the bum, the solutions aren't difficult and ironically appear randomly throughout the range (all the ovens sub 30m are too small). The P49 has a lovely full sized fridge freezer a la our trusty P50 with counter top height fridge. The 52 & 56 cause you to get on your knees & rummage around for the milk / juice / chilled truffles. As an old man my knees couldn't take it
I have never felt the panel finish on the mouldings to be Premier league. They're good enough but better exists elsewhere.
I haven't found the perfect boat yet, I guess you have to decide where you want to take your compromises. Some can be ironed out, others have to be lived with.
Henry
In my era the pop in pop out door knobs were round not square but they are very intuitive and work well. I found it frustrating on the Sunseeker 52 that I had to remember whether the square cupboard knobs hinged from the top, bottom, left or right every time I went to open something. It could be either.
The kitchen I will give you, Princess need a slap on the bum, the solutions aren't difficult and ironically appear randomly throughout the range (all the ovens sub 30m are too small). The P49 has a lovely full sized fridge freezer a la our trusty P50 with counter top height fridge. The 52 & 56 cause you to get on your knees & rummage around for the milk / juice / chilled truffles. As an old man my knees couldn't take it
I have never felt the panel finish on the mouldings to be Premier league. They're good enough but better exists elsewhere.
I haven't found the perfect boat yet, I guess you have to decide where you want to take your compromises. Some can be ironed out, others have to be lived with.
Henry
Blue Sunray
Well-known member
Hard to put my finger on exactly, and it's probably mostly a personal taste thing but i don't think the latest (3 years ago ish?) re-style works. The new style windows in particular don't integrate with the classic hull form, in fact they rather clash with it and I regard the removal of the side door as a retrograde step. The interior layout is nothing special, compared say to the Ellings, I really feel a more fundamental re-think than the Design Unlimited re-style is needed. I also get the distinct feeling that the company is not good at the details nor do they seem that keen on selling boats to today's buyer, and are content to tick over, have you seen their website? I spoke to Geoff on the stand and that interaction did nothing but reinforce my opinions. I do regret I didn't look at the North Line and that might have been an interesting comparison.
