New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[miyagimoon]

OK let's look at it another way , UK decide to charge the French , Germans , Dutch and everyone else a yearly tax if they sailed over the channel , my god there be an up roar .

No, they would claim asylum and the UK would replace their boat with a better one (FOC), give them benefits and declare them exempt to any taxes!!!!

 

[1bobt]

The marina that I'm in has already cottoned on to the fact that this may well put extra pressure on their already limited hard standing as more people seek to store their (over 12m) boat out of the water rather than in. I guess the same will be true of all other Greek marinas too, so we might expect extra costs or charges for long term storage on the hard?

As most people with boats over 12 meters are paying between 25 -40 euro a week on the hard, it will still be cheaper in the water

 

[Chris_Robb]

As most people with boats over 12 meters are paying between 25 -40 euro a week on the hard, it will still be cheaper in the water

No it won't because you pay in the water too if you have an annual contract.

 

[BurnitBlue]

No it won't because you pay in the water too if you have an annual contract.

There are a lot of boats in bays lying to their anchors and beholden to no-one. Take a look at the quay in Vlicho or Tranquil bay. The country abounds with free moorings and quay space.

So in my view the opposite will happen. Boats will be abandoned and driven ashore, or tie up on quay side with no identification. It would be cheaper to let the boat go as many are with no incentive from tax burden in the past. This trend will continue and increase. In a few years every bloody harbour will look like a rubbish dump with no room for paying visitors. The Greeks are powerless to destroy these wrecks because they do not hold any documentation for them.

 

[Retired in Crete]

I think you have to remember that this is a tax primarily aimed at making the Greek owners of boats pay an appropriate tax for using them. Previously these have been taxed as luxury items and various schemes were used to avoid those taxes.

Just for the record those of us who are tax resident in Greece still have to pay the luxury tax. This new boat tax is in addition to, not instead of the luxury tax applied to boats.

John

 

[Chris_Robb]

There are a lot of boats in bays lying to their anchors and beholden to no-one. Take a look at the quay in Vlicho or Tranquil bay. The country abounds with free moorings and quay space.

So in my view the opposite will happen. Boats will be abandoned and driven ashore, or tie up on quay side with no identification. It would be cheaper to let the boat go as many are with no incentive from tax burden in the past. This trend will continue and increase. In a few years every bloody harbour will look like a rubbish dump with no room for paying visitors. The Greeks are powerless to destroy these wrecks because they do not hold any documentation for them.

Perhaps that will the unintended consequence of this. I do agree that Tranquil Vliho Bay are full of the most awful wrecks. The Greeks do need to enact some sort of legislation to enable them to remove boats - - but that costs money.

In the email I had back from the ministry - they did refer to a package of measures aimed at making yachting less bureaucratic. I wonder what they really mean?

 

[1bobt]

No it won't because you pay in the water too if you have an annual contract.

.

 

[1bobt]

There are a lot of boats in bays lying to their anchors and beholden to no-one. Take a look at the quay in Vlicho or Tranquil bay. The country abounds with free moorings and quay space.

So in my view the opposite will happen. Boats will be abandoned and driven ashore, or tie up on quay side with no identification. It would be cheaper to let the boat go as many are with no incentive from tax burden in the past. This trend will continue and increase. In a few years every bloody harbour will look like a rubbish dump with no room for paying visitors. The Greeks are powerless to destroy these wrecks because they do not hold any documentation for them.

I agree

 

[Chris_Robb]

.

In reply to your deleted post, when you only sail for 3 months of the year, you have to be sure that you have somewhere to leave the boat. The only way for peace of mind is a contract. If we had not had one in Leros we would have been stuffed.

 

[Retired in Crete]

The Greeks are powerless to destroy these wrecks because they do not hold any documentation for them.

I would not count on it!

They are currently confiscating houses from people who have not paid their property taxes. Taking a boat would be no problem.

John

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Disagree a fair tax would be to tax Greek and leave all other EU boats out of the mess , why should another EU boat pay tax for sailing around another country , To charge a tax for useing harbour or staying in marina is another thing , lets take holland , if you use an hotel room or a caravan park or a marina no matter if your Dutch or from another EU country you pay a tourist tax , it's a small amount and a dayly tax , but it a tax fair in my view , but your not tax for sailing in there waters or useing a river bank , if Greece want bring in a tax , it should be a fair tax
OK let's look at it another way , UK decide to charge the French , Germans , Dutch and everyone else a yearly tax if they sailed over the channel , my god there be an up roar .

Vic,

that is what I have been saying since post no2? on the very first thread on this topic. However I have been vilified as some sort of xenophobe and not just by regular members of the forum but by prominent leaders of major yachting organisations. How come nobody is calling YOU nasty names?

The Greeks need to realise that this whole thing will do nothing for their popularity OR national income.

 

[REDRUM]

sooo...how does one sail to turkey from italy ?

 

[Steve C Cronin]

sooo...how does one sail to turkey from italy ?

Around Cape Malea but stopping off at any island with a small population and no harbour quayside as such. However, avoid Foinikounta where it is said there is a particular Grecofile who might just shop you to the authorities! Relax, they just don't have the resources in Greece to carry out any of this cobblers.

 

[Tony Cross]

Vic,

that is what I have been saying since post no2? on the very first thread on this topic. However I have been vilified as some sort of xenophobe and not just by regular members of the forum but by prominent leaders of major yachting organisations. How come nobody is calling YOU nasty names?

The Greeks need to realise that this whole thing will do nothing for their popularity OR national income.

I think most people would probably agree with you on this point (taxing Greek tax residents only) but the problem is how to do that in a way that the Greeks cannot wriggle out of? The other attempts to tax only the Greek owners of yachts resulted in most being flagged offshore and/or becoming owned by foreign corporations. If you can find a foolproof way for the Greek government to tax only Greek tax resident's yachts in a way that they can't avoid I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear about it.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think most people would probably agree with you on this point (taxing Greek tax residents only) but the problem is how to do that in a way that the Greeks cannot wriggle out of? The other attempts to tax only the Greek owners of yachts resulted in most being flagged offshore and/or becoming owned by foreign corporations. If you can find a foolproof way for the Greek government to tax only Greek tax resident's yachts in a way that they can't avoid I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear about it.

That's an easy one Tony .

The tax has to be paid by the owner of the boats so their say , correct ?
If that's the case no matter where the boat is register if the owner passport shows he is Greek that he would be liable for the tax ,

Job done .

Still can't see why people from other country are having to pay this tax and I just hope no matter what some say on this forum that they will stay and pay , that people will start to leave Greece in a big way , it my view that it the only way that this tax will be stop .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic,

that is what I have been saying since post no2? on the very first thread on this topic. However I have been vilified as some sort of xenophobe and not just by regular members of the forum but by prominent leaders of major yachting organisations. How come nobody is calling YOU nasty names?

The Greeks need to realise that this whole thing will do nothing for their popularity OR national income.

Hi Steve
I agree with you on lots of the points you have made in the past , and talk to really people in our marina in Sicily and the other one just down the road their are lots more that will agree with you and you be surprise how much are now not going to Greece ,
The different with you and me is , you for some reason have put a lot of people back ( mostly CA members ) up because of your views why I don't know ? Your entitled to your option just like me and everyone else .

As far as the CA goes , I not really big a fan of theirs , but I must say it took them a while but in the end got of their bum and did some thing so , well done CA ,top marks in my view , I am not a member so It not fair for me to comment on their letter to the Greek government but it I was I would have like to have seen them say in that letter that they where advising their member to leave Greece but I suppose that would had been a bit too much .
Just one last thing Steve any one who 100% against this tax like you and me are , should vote with their keel and leave other wise we not helping the problem , if enough people left and people didn't go I would think there would be a big change in the law .

Just one last thing , as far as nasty name goes , alway remember our childhood saying , sticks and stone may brake my bone but name will never hurt me ,
There are only words , writing by small people and I would suggest if you was face to face with the same people it would be all smile and another story . Water of a duck back .

OPPS to I feel some name calling coming my way ( smiles )
Only time will tell how this is going to end .

 

[sailaboutvic]

sooo...how does one sail to turkey from italy ?

The answer to that is , non stop . Unless you want to pay the tax .

 

[Steve C Cronin]

According to the law as written, you will have to pay as above, depending whether you are 12m or under, or over 12m (when you'd pay for a month).

We are negotiating for a period of grace so that those who wish to leave Greek waters immediately after launch will not have to pay. We don't know whether this will succeed.

JimB for the CA

Just for clarification in my mind but does "JimB for the CA" indicate that you now have the authority of CA Council to express the views of the membership as a whole on this matter?

 

[vyv_cox]

If that's the case no matter where the boat is register if the owner passport shows he is Greek that he would be liable for the tax ,

Job done .

You surely cannot be naive enough to believe that? 75% of the world's shipping sails under flags of convenience specifically designed to hide their ownership.

 

[1bobt]

Just for clarification in my mind but does "JimB for the CA" indicate that you now have the authority of CA Council to express the views of the membership as a whole on this matter?

Steve, Its not what you say ,its the way that you say it,
I agree that the CA should not be involved with negotiating with this Greek minister other than to say ,We will be recommending that non Greek flagged CA members boats should leave Greek waters....If people don`t want to leave, so what, let them stay its a free world. I find Jimb a pleasant and affable man and find your comments to /about him rude.
. I don`t think he would be first choice in carrying out a business contract for me, or me him, I would have thought.
If the Greek government, collected taxes from their citizens rich and poor efficently there would be no need to collect it from the sailors of the world in Greek waters. Other than a the PP collecting harbour dues.