New (England) restrictions impact on sailing?

[lustyd]

There'll be reams of laws, regulations and by-laws

I'm pretty sure that we're not (yet) at a place where every person is required to understand every clause in every law, or read every update every day. Much of the country would be incapable of reading them let alone interpreting them. As such, probably best to understand the spirit and go about your business then appologise when you're told you're not doing the right thing. It's completely reasonable to check your boat is OK. It's less reasonable to spend a week aboard visiting harbours. My feeling this time around is as long as I'm staying away from people I'll carry on as usual but be more careful. Taking a year off someone's life is just as bad in the middle as at the end, after all.

 

[Greenheart]

I don't see why law-abiding yachtsmen are worried about what must be an area of absolutely minimal focus for law-enforcers.

Have you ever, or never, slightly exceeded a speed limit on the road? Nobody cares. Technically, we may have broken the letter of the law, but not in a way that justifies any response.

Why would you worry about your inclusion in the letter of this new law? Boat-visiting represents no identifiable risk, and those required to enforce the rule will be snowed-under with genuine risk-factors like house-parties and hordes of young drunks.

Can you imagine harbour masters reporting that individuals and couples are aboard moored yachts - or are peacefully walking along pontoons to sit in their cabins? I can see the duty-sergeant listening to the phone, slowly shaking his head, eyes closed.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I don't see why law-abiding yachtsmen are worried about what must be an area of absolutely minimal focus for law-enforcers.

Have you ever, or never, slightly exceeded a speed limit on the road? Nobody cares. Technically, we may have broken the letter of the law, but not in a way that justifies any response.

Why would you worry about your inclusion in the letter of this new law? Boat-visiting represents no identifiable risk, and those required to enforce the rule will be snowed-under with genuine risk-factors like house-parties and hordes of young drunks.

Can you imagine harbour masters reporting that individuals and couples are aboard moored yachts - or are peacefully walking along pontoons to sit in their cabins? I can see the duty-sergeant listening to the phone, slowly shaking his head, eyes closed.

Ministry of Defence police stop sailors on the water in Portsmouth Harbour amid Covid-19 lockdown

 

[Greenheart]

Ah, well. MoD...nothing else to do. ?

 

[lustyd]

They have plenty to do - they're always there guarding HMS ROB, turning their boat, driving forwards, drinking tea...no, I think you're right. R08 can probably look after herself anyway

 

[Blue Sunray]

Lymington don't seem to be following the same path as Hamble:

• Mooring or berth holders may access their boats (and use them) subject to users complying with all regulations, and published government guidance including the regulations that set out the circumstances under which it is permissible to take exercise or take open air recreation. When on pontoons, users must comply with social distancing guidance at all times.

 

[Mark-1]

Indeed, so far Lymington seem to be the only one to have imposed restrictions and I understand my marina is not intending to close.

However that can all change

Yes, let's not give them an excuse to change it.

Had a quick scan of the proposed regulations. Note there is finally mention of "vessels" but nothing useful for us.

The feeling I am left with is no one is fighting for or representing our interests, but rather than intention is on extending the government's concept to suit or benefit themselves, eg car parks are in. What's a boat yard but a car park?

The lack of any mention of water as "open space" is a perfect example of this.

Why's film making in there and not boating/sailing? Because someone(s) from that industy lobbied them.

I'm happy, the rules appear to allow sailing. Until there's strong evidence it doesn't it's miller time.

The main risk is marinas gold plating it and effectively holding boats hostage - it's not for us to help out with that.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Lymington don't seem to be following the same path as Hamble:

• Mooring or berth holders may access their boats (and use them) subject to users complying with all regulations, and published government guidance including the regulations that set out the circumstances under which it is permissible to take exercise or take open air recreation. When on pontoons, users must comply with social distancing guidance at all times.

I see they have taken it upon themselves to write asking for confirmation...

 

[Robin]

Island Harbour, Cowes, is closed but will open lock for day outings with 24 hr notice, office is closed. Several boats have moved in from river moorings, presumably for the duration or winter layup afloat or ashore.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I see they have taken it upon themselves to write asking for confirmation...

Using the good old UOD formulation , they certainly are showing up Hamble HM as a Warden Hodges (again). I assume Hamble HM is also a member of the "Solent and Southern Harbour Master Association" thus has the same advice.

 

[penberth3]

I'm pretty sure that we're not (yet) at a place where every person is required to understand every clause in every law, or read every update every day. Much of the country would be incapable of reading them let alone interpreting them. As such, probably best to understand the spirit and go about your business then appologise when you're told you're not doing the right thing. It's completely reasonable to check your boat is OK. It's less reasonable to spend a week aboard visiting harbours. My feeling this time around is as long as I'm staying away from people I'll carry on as usual but be more careful. Taking a year off someone's life is just as bad in the middle as at the end, after all.

I think it was your suggestion that Harbour Masters might not have authority to tell you what you could or couldn't do. @FlyingGoose said HM's did have that authority, I agreed with him. That was a general point, not just applying to the Covid situation.

 

[dom]

They have plenty to do - they're always there guarding HMS ROB, turning their boat, driving forwards, drinking tea...no, I think you're right. R08 can probably look after herself anyway

Lusty and his trusty armchair.

Whether it be matters of law, seaborne rescue, virology, epidemiology, and now aircraft carrier defence....

Where would be without you two?

 

[lustyd]

You’re implying the aircraft carrier can’t defend itself? Pretty sure they have more ordnance on board than modplod does, although they are pretty heavily armed too

 

[Giblets]

I think that those who have to travel a fair distance to get to their boat/marina may well fall foul of the regs as they appear to state that you can "travel to exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so." However there is no definition of what constitutes a "short journey".

 

[Blue Sunray]

You’re implying the aircraft carrier can’t defend itself? Pretty sure they have more ordnance on board than modplod does, although they are pretty heavily armed too

A quote worthy of a low rent journalist.

No they can't which is why at one scale they operate as part of a CTG. The amount of ordnance on board is an irrelevance, hence why SSBN, which arguably have more ordnance on board than anything else, get escorts in and out of (and whilst moored in) their home port.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think that those who have to travel a fair distance to get to their boat/marina may well fall foul of the regs as they appear to state that you can "travel to exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so." However there is no definition of what constitutes a "short journey".

There is no definition as that text is from the general guidance rather than the regulations themselves.

As far as I am aware there is no specific restrictions limiting distance travelled.

Unfortunately it is not a new thing that government guidance is misleading on such matters

 

[ip485]

i suspect there is a good reason for not being too prescriptive, but it is as well to leave it at that.

 

[lustyd]

Unfortunately it is not a new thing that government guidance is misleading on such matters

It’s not usually misleading so much as maddeningly vague. They usually use the word reasonable and let the courts decide if it ever comes up, which it usually doesn’t. I think to me if I don’t have to refuel and stop for lunch to make the return journey then the distance is irrelevant since no interaction is needed. My marina has a lock so I won’t be going out because the lock is a potential concentration point of people.

 

[Giblets]

There is no definition as that text is from the general guidance rather than the regulations themselves.

As far as I am aware there is no specific restrictions limiting distance traveled.

Unfortunately it is not a new thing that government guidance is misleading on such matters

Could not agree more having trawled the actual regs to see how far SWMBO can travel to 'train & educate' her dog (no mention in the regs of human only training or education).

 

[Lucky Duck]

It’s not usually misleading so much as maddeningly vague. They usually use the word reasonable and let the courts decide if it ever comes up, which it usually doesn’t. I think to me if I don’t have to refuel and stop for lunch to make the return journey then the distance is irrelevant since no interaction is needed. My marina has a lock so I won’t be going out because the lock is a potential concentration point of people.

When the restrictions first came back in March tge 'FAQs' section on the .gov website stated as a fact that the reasonable excuse to be out for exercise was limited to once a day and for a certain period of time. However, these restrictions never existed in English law.

While limiting travel is sensible along with limiting interactions there is no offence that I am aware of for travelling 'too far'