New (England) restrictions impact on sailing?

[TwoHooter]

I spoke to Portland Marina today, about 2pm, and they were waiting for information from the governments and industry bodies

Why? The law is here.
Just read the law for heaven's sake. In the UK it is still the law which we have to follow. Nothing else.

Enjoy your time on board. I almost wish I could join you but I’m sadly, or rather, gladly out of the country for a while. At least we both know the marina is as secure and safe in any weather. Hopefully catch up with you at the end of lockdown.

Thanks John. Yes, this is a good place to be, and I look forward to a compliant meeting at some stage!

Just been looking at another web site and found the RYA's advice for boat owners.
Our(RYA's) current understanding of the situation (subject to any local restrictions) is as follows:......
No overnight stays are allowed on boats except for residential berth holders (where the boat is their Primary Residence) or for business purposes

I don't think that's what the law says. The words 'primary residence' do not appear anywhere. The relevant law is regulation 5 . The Office of the Parliamentary Counsel should have used different words if that's what they wanted to achieve. Our boat is a place and I am living in it. See you in court.

Full disclosure and I don't care if I am being political here. I think the cure is worse than the disease.
'The aim? To suppress temporarily and with no obvious strategic purpose a disease which over 99.7% of people survive.'
#whyaretheydoing this
My MP voted against! I can hardly believe it, but well done him.

 

[Mark-1]

I don't think that's what the law says. The words 'primary residence' do not appear anywhere. The relevant law is regulation 5 . The Office of the Parliamentary Counsel should have used different words if that's what they wanted to achieve. Our boat is a place and I am living in it.

Very much agree. And this isn't going to be enforced with a heavy hand. If we misinterpret the rules and if the Police had resource to deal with it there will a friendly explanation from the rozzers not instant prison.

Some of us are in real danger of living by draconian rules of our own making.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Why? The law is here.
Just read the law for heaven's sake. In the UK it is still the law which we have to follow. Nothing else.

Because laws, acts, are merely bones that are later fleshed out through cases.

And the nature of English law is, basically, you're allowed to do whatever is not specifically prohibited.

 

[ip485]

It is an interesting discussion and maybe not for this thread. However, I guess many see the law as black or white. It can be, but rarely is. Cynically, we might often conclude it isnt black or white for a very good reason or even reasons, and this is perhaps a good example. Those that do see the law as black or white, also do not have the experience of legal construct to fully appreciate when it is not, and a coach and horses could be driven through it. The law in this case is constructed in many parts to leave a great deal to people (and ulitmately the Court) to judge what would and wouldnt be a reasonable course of action, a concept of course enshrined in our legal system along the lines of what would the average man on the number 7 omnibus do if confronted with the same circumstances. A good example is pilots of light aircraft, who successfully argued that aircraft engines suffer significantly if left unrun for any length of time, and so the argument goes they must go to their airport or local strip and fly their aircraft because the consequence of not doing so is damage than would run to tens of thousands of pounds. My guess, had they not previously had the "approval" of the CAA, would be that even a Court would rule their action was reasonable as the law currently stands. The same argument may of course be equally relevant to boats (and I dont mean a boat's engine).

In short it is neither black or white, and it is for us all to behave reasonably. We know what is intended by these measures and that is to all but eliminate personal contact between people, and it seems to me where ever we might go if we dont mix with anyone else or get near anyone else then we are complying with the spirit, and if there was 100% compliance with the spirit the virus would very quickly come under control.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Recreational fishermen made a similar successful stand for nightfishing first time round, while marina and yards were locking out sailors,with the support of their association.

The latter, I think, being the difference.

Although I question the "recreational" value of sitting by a river or shore, like you say, they were being of no harm to others.

Of course, yes, the problem is the example it sets for the moron element, like those who took the first opportunity they could to go trash the countryside after lockdown was lifted. Or those acting unnecessarily selfishly, like the campervaners flooding Highland campsites to escape the plague down South, bringing it with them.

 

[Babylon]

I've been away from this thread for a couple of days.

In that time some more old people have passed away, and a couple of very fat ones.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves for letting this happen!

 

[Giblets]

One of the reasons why most of the 'other sports' mentioned in this thread are still being allowed to happen is that the national bodies have lobbied very vigorously for them to continue. As sailors don't have a national body (or at least one that really gets involved at times like this) we don't have the clout that other organisations appear to be able to bring to the table.

 

[tugger]

Of course, yes, the problem is the example it sets for the moron element, like those who took the first opportunity they could to go trash the countryside after lockdown was lifted. Or those acting unnecessarily selfishly, like the campervaners flooding Highland campsites to escape the plague down South, bringing it with them.

Remarkably hypocritical.

Can you clarify how hoards of selfish 'campervaners' travelling to a campsite with covid-19 is any different from hoards of selfish boat owners travelling to a marina with covid-19?

 

[Lightwave395]

Lest nobody has yet posted this - Cowes Harbour Lockdown 2 info:

Welcome to Cowes Harbour Commission

 

[Greenheart]

Has anybody mentioned golf, here? It struck me that golfing couples are quite a bit like sailing couples, in Covid terms...

...neither need their clubs to open in order to continue exercising in perfect safety at enormous distances from other people, including others doing the exact same exercise. The failure of the law to recognise where there is absence of risk, is an inherent weakness.

Is it possible that the law is applied so widely in the knowledge that golfers and yachtsmen are more likely to be educated, law-abiding types who'll quietly put up with the staring hole in the reasoning, than those volatile ball-kickers who throng together?

 

[Graham376]

Friend of a friend got nailed by the police here in Wales but, not in the way he expected. Had been driving around blatantly breaking the boundary rules with a load of tools in the boot to use the excuse (lie) he was working, if pulled up. Unfortunately, when the police looked at his insurance, he was only covered for social, domestic and pleasure and wound up being booked for driving without insurance

 

[Hot Property]

Ministry of Defence police stop sailors on the water in Portsmouth Harbour amid Covid-19 lockdown

That report is dated 30th March 2020......

 

[Giblets]

Friend of a friend got nailed by the police here in Wales but, not in the way he expected. Had been driving around blatantly breaking the boundary rules with a load of tools in the boot to use the excuse (lie) he was working, if pulled up. Unfortunately, when the police looked at his insurance, he was only covered for social, domestic and pleasure and wound up being booked for driving without insurance

 

[Blue Sunray]

That report is dated 30th March 2020......

That will be because that was when it was published.

Dorset police have put this out today:

Dorset Marine Policing Team

This morning we’ve been in a (virtual) meeting with the #Poole #Harbour Islands #Safety Group with our partners at DWFireRescue RNLI RNLI Poole Lifeboat Station National Trust National Trust Brownsea Island Dorset Wildlife Trust, island residents and more, discussing critical issues facing our island communities. Very productive and useful

As we head into a second lockdown, with recreational power boating appearing to fall outside the definition of exercise and ‘recreation’ in ‘public outdoor spaces’ referring to land, caution should be exercised in what is and isn’t allowed. Other forms of watercraft which are a form of exercise appear to be permitted. Hopefully more clarity will follow.

That said, remember that there are many genuine work users of vessels, and our island residents use boats as transport to essential shopping, healthcare and more.

Stay safe and let’s all do our bit to reduce transmission. We’ll be here doing what we do. Say hi if you see us!

 

[rotrax]

One of the reasons why most of the 'other sports' mentioned in this thread are still being allowed to happen is that the national bodies have lobbied very vigorously for them to continue. As sailors don't have a national body (or at least one that really gets involved at times like this) we don't have the clout that other organisations appear to be able to bring to the table.

Get real - unless you are an active racing sailor - you are indulging in a hobby or pastime.

Cruising or living aboard is NOT a Sport.

IMHO, of course................

 

[Mark-1]

Get real - unless you are an active racing sailor - you are indulging in a hobby or pastime.

Cruising or living aboard is NOT a Sport.

IMHO, of course................

No, but it *is* exercize.

 

[ryanroberts]

No, but it *is* exercize.

Yes by that logic ramblers would need to take up fell running. Sitting in pilothouse with a cuppa is totally exercise

 

[ip485]

Get real - unless you are an active racing sailor - you are indulging in a hobby or pastime.

Cruising or living aboard is NOT a Sport.

IMHO, of course................

In seriousness and often repeated as your comment, but I can only assume you dont sit in a marina and watch.

If you did, the vast majority of boats I see going out are a typical couple, often relatively elderly, or even very elderly, and I suspect a major part of their weekly excercise regime. They are getting out in the fresh air, heaving on ropes, hoisting sails or whatever floats your boat, and doubtless very important for their well being. They arent involved with anyone else and probably dont wish to be anyway. Back in the marina after a day out on the water they might have another couple over for a glass of something in the summer, but not at this time of year, and not with Covid anyway. That is what I see at marinas I would guess 80% of the time, especially at this time of year. I also see some younger families, couple and a few children and they go about their business in much the same way. More to the point I get the impression when most are on their boats they dont really want to get involved with anyone else - it is their way. You need to watch and see how boating works in this country and I think you would agree? It is just the way it is.

 

[TernVI]

Get real - unless you are an active racing sailor - you are indulging in a hobby or pastime.

Cruising or living aboard is NOT a Sport.

IMHO, of course................

Indeed.
Cruising is travel.
Non essential travel is pretty much banned.

Sailing a cruising yacht is not a lot more physical than riding a motorbike, and I saw people getting pulled for that in the Spring.

I might take my canoe up the river though, that's exercise.
Sailing a dinghy on the sea is quite physical exercise sometimes, but I'm not going to do that without some sort of safety cover this time of year.

It can't be easy for people caught out with boats on unsuitable moorings for the winter etc, but TBH people should have seen this coming?

 

[Mark-1]

In the spring visiting a allotment was exercise. The bar is very low. It can be exercise for the soul as well as purely physical.

If they said cruising levels of exertion aren't exercise they're going to have to start arresting people who can do no more than hobble round the block. (Captain Tom).

Anything can be justified as exercise. The problem we may face is Marinas regarding themselves as recreational facilities which must close or the sea not being regarded as public. Personally I forsee no problems at all. Last time loads of people were sailing and overnighting and there were zero arrests.