New (England) restrictions impact on sailing?

[Lucky Duck]

"Outdoor sports facilities and amenities" have to close.

So much for the war on obesity, those looking for something to do can always visit an estate agent, a showhome or a house for sale

 

[penberth3]

So much for the war on obesity, those looking for something to do can always visit an estate agent, a showhome or a house for sale

Walking hasn't been banned.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Walking hasn't been banned.

Which if you live anywhere that isn't in the sticks you will get to meet lots of new and interesting people which at the moment isn't such a good thing.

 

[dom]

Could not agree more having trawled the actual regs to see how far SWMBO can travel to 'train & educate' her dog (no mention in the regs of human only training or education).

Your second career as a barrister beckons ??

 

[TwoHooter]

Walking hasn't been banned.

Just pause for a moment and look at that statement. 'Walking hasn't been banned'.
Would any of us a year ago have dreamed that in our country the freedom to be able to go out for a walk would even be worth mentioning?

 

[Lucky Duck]

Just pause for a moment and look at that statement. 'Walking hasn't been banned'.
Would any of us a year ago have dreamed that in our country the freedom to be able to go out for a walk would even be worth mentioning?

Given the country is apparently facing a national calamity I find this list of exceptions rather suspect.

 

[pvb]

Given the country is apparently facing a national calamity I find this list of exceptions rather suspect.

I think you've fallen in to the trap set by the fear-mongers. The only national calamity is our poorly-managed health service. Every year in the UK, we expect around 60,000 deaths from flu or sepsis, and nobody is in the least bit alarmed. But a similar number of deaths from coronavirus suddenly trigger irrational actions to bankrupt our country. Something is very wrong.

 

[SimonFa]

I spoke to Portland Marina today, about 2pm, and they were waiting for information from the governments and industry bodies. Their default position was, and I paraphrase, that the marina and boatyard would remain open and boat owners would be allowed and and expected to respect the current regulations and guideline. They continue to be lifting boats in and out and sun contractors can continue to work on site.

Basically nothing much changing, for now.

 

[longjohnsilver]

The regulations do not say anything about the distance you can travel.
Regulation 5(1) says 'No person may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse' and regulation 6 says that reasonable excuses include:
6(2)(c) 'to take exercise outside' - clearly paddleboarding, kayaking, canooing etc. are forms of exercise
6(2)(d) 'to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation— '
7(4) defines 'public outdoor place' as follows 'A place is a “public outdoor place” if it is an outdoor place to which the public have, or are permitted, access (whether on payment or otherwise) and includes—' there then follows a list of examples. Water is not among them.
BUT it is settled law that the term 'includes' does not exclude instances which are not specifically excluded, in other words the examples are just that.
If I am prosecuted for boating I shall rest my defence on regulation 7(4). I shall say that I am visiting a public outdoor place for the purposes of recreation.
Meanwhile, for tonight and a while afterwards, the 'place where I am living' is our boat. It is a place and I am living there.

Enjoy your time on board. I almost wish I could join you but I’m sadly, or rather, gladly out of the country for a while. At least we both know the marina is as secure and safe in any weather. Hopefully catch up with you at the end of lockdown.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think you've fallen in to the trap set by the fear-mongers. The only national calamity is our poorly-managed health service. Every year in the UK, we expect around 60,000 deaths from flu or sepsis, and nobody is in the least bit alarmed. But a similar number of deaths from coronavirus suddenly trigger irrational actions to bankrupt our country. Something is very wrong.

Not at all, that the regulations allows such things as the housing market to continue leads me to believe that the level of jeopardy presented on Saturday was entirely bogus.

Like earlier this year I suspect we will find restrictions we imposed after the peak

 

[Mark-1]

One of the clubs I am a member of has not only closed the clubhouse but also the entire site including thier marina. As the thread on PBO they are not unique in doing so.

Perversely members will be able to see thier yachts from the adjacent footpath but not step foot in the marina

Yup, one of my clubs has closed everything including the dinghy park on the ADVICE OF THE RYA! They've also said that RYA have advised that marinas must close. (Hilariously the club have also claimed they're denying access to boats n swinging moorings which is blatantly impossible there are several public slipways. (I don't blame the club, they're volunteers doing their best and following professional advice.)

Whos side are the RYA on!? Rather than closing marine activities on the off-chance something may be illegal how about advising there's an off-chance it's illegal and warning of the risk. If the authorities want us to stop they'll soon say so. I would strongly make the case that a marina isn't the sporting facility, it's part of the journey that gets you to the activity and is therefore legal AFAIC. Marinas making themselves into self-appointed house arrest enforcement bodies to prevent their customers law breaking is going to cost them customers.

Closing to save staff costs with the furlough scheme whilst continuing to charge for the boats they're holding hostage?

 

[Hacker]

....... The only national calamity is our poorly-managed health service.........

and your evidence for that is?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Yup, one of my clubs has closed everything including the dinghy park on the ADVICE OF THE RYA! They've also said that RYA have advised that marinas must close. (Hilariously the club have also claimed they're denying access to boats n swinging moorings which is blatantly impossible there are several public slipways. (I don't blame the club, they're volunteers doing their best and following professional advice.)

Whos side are the RYA on!? Rather than closing marine activities on the off-chance something may be illegal how about advising there's an off-chance it's illegal and warning of the risk. If the authorities want us to stop they'll soon say so. I would strongly make the case that a marina isn't the sporting facility, it's part of the journey that gets you to the activity and is therefore legal AFAIC. Marinas making themselves into self-appointed house arrest enforcement bodies to prevent their customers law breaking is going to cost them customers.

Closing to save staff costs with the furlough scheme whilst continuing to charge for the boats they're holding hostage?

I wouldn’t be jumping to too many conclusions on the basis of what your club has told you. It is quite possible they have got it wrong.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Housing?

So you can't visit friends but you can have a dozen strangers and agents wander around?

How does that work?

Seems a load of clubs and yards are just into the idea of a nice holiday.

 

[Giblets]

Your second career as a barrister beckons ??

Now there's a thought. I could do with the wig in this cold weather!

 

[Concerto]

Just been looking at another web site and found the RYA's advice for boat owners.
New national restrictions in England from 5 November

Our(RYA's) current understanding of the situation (subject to any local restrictions) is as follows:

• Recreational boating from a public outdoor space for single households and support bubbles or with one other person (with social distancing) may be possible
• Public waterways and beaches will remain open during the lockdown
• Outdoor sports centres and amenities (which includes sailing clubs and watersports centres) will have to close
• Members may be able to access boats for essential checks and maintenance, however, this will need to be agreed with their club/marina/harbour authority, with individuals taking personal responsibility for meeting Government guidance
• University sport will not be taking place
• School sport will be happening but only as part of organised school activity
• Some charities may be able to continue aspects of their work
• There are continuing exemptions for elite athletes for them to train or compete, so the British Sailing Team programme can continue
• No overnight stays are allowed on boats except for residential berth holders (where the boat is their Primary Residence) or for business purposes

 

[Slowboat35]

I'd like to see a marina or club provide a legal justification for preventing an owner from visitng his personal property (ie boat). Unless such a clause is written into the marina Ts and Cs on the owner's contract I very much doubt it can be legal. Should they do so and the vessel takes harm due to the forced exclusion of the owner their liability would surely be unlimited. (imagine a big storm was forecast and they refused to let owners tend to their lines and rows of boats dominoed...)

 

[Keith 66]

It is a bizare situation where our club is now completely shut yet if i could have got my rowing boat home yesterday i could launch & use it today from the public slipway nearby!

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

What's the generally the legal relationship between club members and clubs (and, hence, legal rights)?

They're not cooperatives, I certainly don't know of any, so members are not co-owners and are certainly not afforded enduring rights. In theory they are some kind of democratic company, but that's not always been my experience. Some are more like fiefdoms, where ordinary members attendance is merely at the will of a small self-electing minority. Perhaps this is where part of the problem lies.

Has anyone ever written up or discussed the sociology of yacht/sailing clubs?

I was thinking if it was my boat, on land I had a share in, that required essential attention, legally one could not be stopped. Unless one is wealthy enough to have waterfront property with one's own mooring, one is always in the hands of a potentiallu less interested or less enlightened someone else.

 

[Lucky Duck]

What's the generally the legal relationship between club members and clubs (and, hence, legal rights)?

They're not cooperatives, I certainly don't know of any, so members are not co-owners and are certainly not afforded enduring rights. In theory they are some kind of democratic company, but that's not always been my experience. Some are more like fiefdoms, where ordinary members attendance is merely at the will of a small self-electing minority. Perhaps this is where part of the problem lies.

Has anyone ever written up or discussed the sociology of yacht/sailing clubs?

I was thinking if it was my boat, on land I had a share in, that required essential attention, legally one could not be stopped. Unless one is wealthy enough to have waterfront property with one's own mooring, one is always in the hands of a potentiallu less interested or less enlightened someone else.

Many clubs operate as limited companies these days

Last time around some harbour authorities decreed that even those with waterfront properties must not use their kayaks SUPs, etc