New (England) restrictions impact on sailing?

[Lucky Duck]

In the spring visiting a allotment was exercise. The bar is very low. It can be exercise for the soul as well as purely physical.

If they said cruising levels of exertion aren't exercise they're going to have to start arresting people who can do no more than hobble round the block. (Captain Tom).

Anything can be justified as exercise. The problem we may face is Marinas regarding themselves as recreational facilities which must close or the sea not being regarded as public. Personally I forsee no problems at all. Last time loads of people were sailing and overnighting and there were zero arrests.

I received what can be best described as a passive aggressive email from my marina this afternoon.

The reason for then taking the time to write to me was that my old tub wasn't seen to be in its berth when the morning walk around took place.

Unfortunately I have no idea whether this was perceived as an issue because they think I was away overnight or that I should not have left at all.

It is also possible they are mistaken.

I am currently undecided on whether or not to reply and if so how.

During the last 'no overnight' restrictions there was at least one conspicuously repeat 'offender' - maybe they wrote to them each weekend.

 

[Seven Spades]

That will be because that was when it was published.

Dorset police have put this out today:

Dorset Marine Policing Team

This morning we’ve been in a (virtual) meeting with the #Poole #Harbour Islands #Safety Group with our partners at DWFireRescue RNLI RNLI Poole Lifeboat Station National Trust National Trust Brownsea Island Dorset Wildlife Trust, island residents and more, discussing critical issues facing our island communities. Very productive and useful

As we head into a second lockdown, with recreational power boating appearing to fall outside the definition of exercise and ‘recreation’ in ‘public outdoor spaces’ referring to land, caution should be exercised in what is and isn’t allowed. Other forms of watercraft which are a form of exercise appear to be permitted. Hopefully more clarity will follow.

That said, remember that there are many genuine work users of vessels, and our island residents use boats as transport to essential shopping, healthcare and more.

Stay safe and let’s all do our bit to reduce transmission. We’ll be here doing what we do. Say hi if you see us!

I think this position is simply wrong if you read the law it very very clear..and here is the extract

Exceptions: leaving home

6.—(1) These are the exceptions referred to in regulation 5.

Exception 1: leaving home necessary for certain purposes

(2) Exception 1 is that it is reasonably necessary for the person concerned (“P”) to leave or be outside the place where P is living (“P’s home”)—

.....

(d)

to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation—

(i) alone,

(ii) with—

(aa) one or more members of their household, their linked household, or

(bb) where exercise is being taken as part of providing informal childcare for a child aged 13 or under, one or more members of their linked childcare household, or

(iii) with one other person who is not a member of their household or their linked household,

and paragraph (3) applies in determining whether a person is complying with the limits in this sub-paragraph;


There is no room for misinterpretation here. We are allowed to use our boats for recreation with either members of your household or some one who is not a member of your household. Strangely we are not allowed overnight stays.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Remarkably hypocritical.

Can you clarify how hoards of selfish 'campervaners' travelling to a campsite with covid-19 is any different from hoards of selfish boat owners

Last time I checked, boats sail on the sea powered by the wind and prefer to be 100s of yards, if not miles, from anyone.

I suggest you try driving round the Highlands in a caravan/caravanette and see how that compares. For much of the season, it is a mobile parking lot that requires regular stops for refueling both drivers and vehicle. Compare proximity. Lot more space at sea.

Even if you were to factor in marina hopping, which I was not I was talking sailing, it would still not be equivalent.

Most people I know sail to get away from people.

Where's the recreational value in sitting in a car all day?

Cruising or living aboard is NOT a Sport.

Cruising is to Sport, what competitive walking is to running. It's like keeping up jogging to prepare for marathon.

Actually, I think for we old folks it is, something that can be done without jarring the knees.

 

[tugger]

Last time I checked, boats sail on the sea powered by the wind and prefer to be 100s of yards, if not miles, from anyone.

That is very much open to opinion, of course there are motor cruisers too who I'm sure would like to be included if boating activities were permitted...but the means of propulsion isn't really the topic of debate, you were complaining about the numbers of people moving about the country. You also chose to conveniently ignore the travelling required to get to the boat in the first place.

I suggest you try driving round the Highlands in a caravan/caravanette and see how that compares. For much of the season, it is a mobile parking lot that requires regular stops for refueling both drivers and vehicle. Compare proximity. Lot more space at sea.

The numerous historic posts regarding the state of the Solent at peak season would draw remarkable comparisons...but again it is a moot point because on boats as in camper vans, once on your way, both users are in an isolated space...and the 'regular' stopping for fuel (let's say a conservative every 300 miles) is probably no more regular than a vessel between nightly marina stops, which let's face it, is where most will spend the night.

I stand by my point of one being no worse or better than the other...both should avoid unnecessary travel rather than trying to sneak through perceived loopholes for selfish ends.

 

[Greenheart]

I received what can be best described as a passive aggressive email from my marina this afternoon.

The reason for then taking the time to write to me was that my old tub wasn't seen to be in its berth when the morning walk around took place.

Wretches. I'd make this my last year at that marina, if they think that's any part of their job. Unless they thought it had been stolen?

 

[rotrax]

In seriousness and often repeated as your comment, but I can only assume you dont sit in a marina and watch.

If you did, the vast majority of boats I see going out are a typical couple, often relatively elderly, or even very elderly, and I suspect a major part of their weekly excercise regime. They are getting out in the fresh air, heaving on ropes, hoisting sails or whatever floats your boat, and doubtless very important for their well being. They arent involved with anyone else and probably dont wish to be anyway. Back in the marina after a day out on the water they might have another couple over for a glass of something in the summer, but not at this time of year, and not with Covid anyway. That is what I see at marinas I would guess 80% of the time, especially at this time of year. I also see some younger families, couple and a few children and they go about their business in much the same way. More to the point I get the impression when most are on their boats they dont really want to get involved with anyone else - it is their way. You need to watch and see how boating works in this country and I think you would agree? It is just the way it is.

All very true, but, as I said - and still maintain - they are taking part in a hobby or pastime.

A Sport, IMHO, by its very definition, has an element of competition about it. In fact, competition, between others or in the case of Field Sports or Angling for example, the quarry, is what it is all about.

I took part in Motor or Motorcycle sport for 45 years not stop.

When I drive to the boat in my car I am not involved in Motorsport.

When First Mate and I sail our boat we are not involved in a Sport. It is clearly a hobby or pastime. In fact, before CV19, for us, between May and October it was a way of life, living aboard for the whole time.

I replied to giblets who implied in his post we were.

I also stated that racing sailors were involved in a Sport.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

I stand by my point of one being no worse or better than the other...both should avoid unnecessary travel rather than trying to sneak through perceived loopholes for selfish ends.

The caravaners didn't just go out, drive around in a circle, then come all the way back home. They fled to the Highlands with the intention of sitting the plague out (while presumably using the communal facilities and local tea shop/stores). Big difference.

I'd say it was more on a par with driving to the local moors, having a walk, making a cup of tea in the back your VW, then driving back home. I'll even afford you a quick kip in the back so it is safer to drive home if you are old.

My understanding is, that is acceptable.

 

[Capt Popeye]

All very true, but, as I said - and still maintain - they are taking part in a hobby or pastime.

A Sport, IMHO, by its very definition, has an element of competition about it. In fact, competition, between others or in the case of Field Sports or Angling for example, the quarry, is what it is all about.

I took part in Motor or Motorcycle sport for 45 years not stop.

When I drive to the boat in my car I am not involved in Motorsport.

When First Mate and I sail our boat we are not involved in a Sport. It is clearly a hobby or pastime. In fact, before CV19, for us, between May and October it was a way of life, living aboard for the whole time.

I replied to giblets who implied in his post we were.

I also stated that racing sailors were involved in a Sport.

Yes well strange that in defining a Sport as competition between others its also maintaining that said Sport involves others and a club house which ALL mean that others are involved so a meting or meeting must surely take place which is surely against the meanings of the Lock Down restrictions; whereas lone sailing or boating is a solitary activity with none or very little interface with others and probably none with club houses etc;

so participating in any Sport is well against the intent of the Lock Down restrictions; is allowed and encouraged, whereas lone or family activity with a hobby or pastime to gain personal enjoyment and perhaps sanity its claimed is well within the intent of the lock down, but not allowed ?

Tis indeed a strange understanding or lack of it ?

 

[TernVI]

The caravaners didn't just go out, drive around in a circle, then come all the way back home. They fled to the Highlands with the intention of sitting the plague out (while presumably using the communal facilities and local tea shop/stores). Big difference.

I'd say it was more on a par with driving to the local moors, having a walk, making a cup of tea in the back your VW, then driving back home. I'll even afford you a quick kip in the back so it is safer to drive home if you are old.

My understanding is, that is acceptable.

I think the key word here is 'local'.
It's OK to drive a short distance to exercise locally, but if you're driving so far you're thinking about needing a kip before driving home, that's not local and therefore unacceptable.Exactly where the line should be drawn is up for debate.

 

[Babylon]

I received what can be best described as a passive aggressive email from my marina this afternoon.

The reason for then taking the time to write to me was that my old tub wasn't seen to be in its berth when the morning walk around took place.
[...]

I've always reckoned that if Jerry had succeeded in invading us in 1940, there'd have been considerably more collaborators than the popular imagination would ever think!

Ignore the marina - let them stew.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think this position is simply wrong if you read the law it very very clear..and here is the extract

Exceptions: leaving home

6.—(1) These are the exceptions referred to in regulation 5.

Exception 1: leaving home necessary for certain purposes

(2) Exception 1 is that it is reasonably necessary for the person concerned (“P”) to leave or be outside the place where P is living (“P’s home”)—

.....

(d)

to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation—

(i) alone,

(ii) with—

(aa) one or more members of their household, their linked household, or

(bb) where exercise is being taken as part of providing informal childcare for a child aged 13 or under, one or more members of their linked childcare household, or

(iii) with one other person who is not a member of their household or their linked household,

and paragraph (3) applies in determining whether a person is complying with the limits in this sub-paragraph;


There is no room for misinterpretation here. We are allowed to use our boats for recreation with either members of your household or some one who is not a member of your household. Strangely we are not allowed overnight stays.

It would not be the first time the police have 'misunderstood' the regulations, previous incidents have included threatening to check peoples' shopping bags, patrolling the non-essential isles of Bar Hill Tescos and confusing the requirement to stay at home with staying indoors.

 

[Hot Property]

I think this position is simply wrong if you read the law it very very clear..and here is the extract

Exceptions: leaving home

6.—(1) These are the exceptions referred to in regulation 5.

Exception 1: leaving home necessary for certain purposes

(2) Exception 1 is that it is reasonably necessary for the person concerned (“P”) to leave or be outside the place where P is living (“P’s home”)—

.....

(d)

to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation—

(i) alone,

(ii) with—

(aa) one or more members of their household, their linked household, or

(bb) where exercise is being taken as part of providing informal childcare for a child aged 13 or under, one or more members of their linked childcare household, or

(iii) with one other person who is not a member of their household or their linked household,

and paragraph (3) applies in determining whether a person is complying with the limits in this sub-paragraph;


There is no room for misinterpretation here. We are allowed to use our boats for recreation with either members of your household or some one who is not a member of your household. Strangely we are not allowed overnight stays.

The key words here are " open air recreation" .

As always, any encounter with other people should be avoided and normal covid precautions taken......

 

[rotrax]

Yes well strange that in defining a Sport as competition between others its also maintaining that said Sport involves others and a club house which ALL mean that others are involved so a meting or meeting must surely take place which is surely against the meanings of the Lock Down restrictions; whereas lone sailing or boating is a solitary activity with none or very little interface with others and probably none with club houses etc;

so participating in any Sport is well against the intent of the Lock Down restrictions; is allowed and encouraged, whereas lone or family activity with a hobby or pastime to gain personal enjoyment and perhaps sanity its claimed is well within the intent of the lock down, but not allowed ?

Tis indeed a strange understanding or lack of it ?

Read Giblets post to understand my reply/replies.

I completely agree with what you say, but not what Giblets implied.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

So it says recreation, not sport. But every sportsperson trains & practises alone too.

Got to keep your Sailing Kung Fu up to scratch.

It's OK to drive a short distance to exercise locally, but if you're driving so far you're thinking about needing a kip before driving home, that's not local

It's not the drive, it's the walk across the moors and any refreshment taken.

I've always reckoned that if Jerry had succeeded in invading us in 1940, there'd have been considerably more collaborators than the popular imagination would ever think

God, yes. No excuses about it too. Blue blazers would have turned brown overnight.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I've always reckoned that if Jerry had succeeded in invading us in 1940, there'd have been considerably more collaborators than the popular imagination would ever think!

Ignore the marina - let them stew.

He did and there were.

Papers reveal islanders' collaboration with Nazis

 

[dom]

He did and there were.

Papers reveal islanders' collaboration with Nazis

And why Alderney doesn't celebrate Liberation Day on 9th May with many referring to it as 'Collaboration Day' instead.

German troops didn't surrender Alderney until 20 May 1945 and the islanders didn't start to return until 15 December of that year.

It is said that the forever-locked War Records document instances of Guernsey officials collaborating with Nazi administrators for the purpose of sequestering land and other assets which lawfully belonged to the islanders.

 

[penberth3]

.

....It is said that the forever-locked War Records document instances of Guernsey officials collaborating with Nazi administrators for the purpose of sequestering land and other assets which lawfully belonged to the islanders.

I don't know the history or the details, but in some circumstances, e.g. armed invasion, it might be better to "go with the flow".

 

[dom]

I don't know the history or the details, but in some circumstances, e.g. armed invasion, it might be better to "go with the flow".

Indeed, although what is alleged to have happened here is that the Guernsey Authorities collaborated with the Nazis with the aim of appropriating assets that were lawfully owned by Alderney residents.

However as the relevant War Records remain permanently shut in Guernsey it is hard to prove.

 

[Babylon]

I'm all for "going with the flow", but there's a difference between "keeping your head down and your nose clean" and "actively assisting", i.e. collaboration, or taking advantage of a brutal occupier's presence to settle old scores or advance your own dubious agenda.

A superb film worth watching, which deals with the complexities and nuances of occupation is "Suite Francaise" based on the unfinished books of Irène Némirovsky (she was deported and murdered): Suite Française (film) - Wikipedia.

Of course there was also "SS GB" by Len Deighton, which the BBC made into a short series a couple of years ago: SS-GB (TV series) - Wikipedia