Hanse320/325 vs older boat

[bitbaltic]

It's untrue that Tranona or I have suggested buying new. We've suggested buying newer, for the simple reason that boats built this century have a lot of advantages.

I think it is fair to say that an interested observer will have a long search on the forum to find posts where either of you, and particularly Tranona, have offered any *disadvantages* though, and this undermines some part of your position.

I have a Hanse (AWB manufacturer) built as a budget and bulk boat to a design which sits somewhere between the MAB and AWB era- it’s hull design is broadly MAB and it’s fit out broadly budget AWB.

I have tried to reflect the advantages and disadvantages of this in this and other threads.

it is worth being very clear that the disadvantages of this boat are quite unrelated to seaworthiness or any other point levelled at Hanse by Malo37.

 

[dom]

I would say that people who have undertaken ocean passages, if indeed there are any, (assuming by that you mean crossing an ocean) in a Hanse, have been lucky they didn't encounter particularly bad weather.
I sailed along the Moray Firth in a new Hanse (not mine). When one of the crew stumbled in the cabin he lurched against the saloon table for support and the whole thing fell to bits. The hull was so thin that you could see the forecabin lights from outside - through the hull.

It’s called ‘glass’ fibre.

Geddit?
?

 

[bitbaltic]

I would say that people who have undertaken ocean passages, if indeed there are any, (assuming by that you mean crossing an ocean) in a Hanse, have been lucky they didn't encounter particularly bad weather.
I sailed along the Moray Firth in a new Hanse (not mine). When one of the crew stumbled in the cabin he lurched against the saloon table for support and the whole thing fell to bits. The hull was so thin that you could see the forecabin lights from outside - through the hull.

Allow me to invite you for a sail on my Hanse through some Bristol Channel overfalls. Bring Geoff Capes again, if you want. I have an autograph book.

 

[pvb]

I think it is fair to say that an interested observer will have a long search on the forum to find posts where either of you, and particularly Tranona, have offered any *disadvantages* though, and this undermines some part of your position.

Perhaps that's because there aren't many significant disadvantages of newer boats! People will argue for ever about interior design, and whether it's attractive - this is purely a matter of personal taste, as is choosing furniture for one's home. But the actual standard of construction is very good indeed, better than most boats built last century. In terms of user-friendliness, newer boats win hands down.

 

[Malo37]

It’s called ‘glass’ fibre.

Geddit?
?

Gel coat, the waterproof part, is not transparent unless it's really really thin.

 

[pvb]

Gel coat, the waterproof part, is not transparent unless it's really really thin.

I could see daylight through the hull in the aft cabin of my last boat, a Hallberg-Rassy 352. They're obviously flimsy as well!

 

[dom]

Gel coat, the waterproof part, is not transparent unless it's really really thin.

Sorry, wrong again, modern GRP itself is waterproof and does not require gelcoat to fulfil this function.

Which is why some working vessels don’t have it with no ill effects. Neither do fibreglass tanks, etc.

UV protection is another matter.

 

[bitbaltic]

Perhaps that's because there aren't many significant disadvantages of newer boats! People will argue for ever about interior design, and whether it's attractive - this is purely a matter of personal taste, as is choosing furniture for one's home. But the actual standard of construction is very good indeed, better than most boats built last century. In terms of user-friendliness, newer boats win hands down.

This is a precise illustration of what gets you guys into trouble. There is no perfect boat. All boats are compromises. I have owned my boat for 10 years and I now know exactly those qualities which mean I love sailing it and exactly those qualities which mean I must compromise and plan around its capabilities to get the best out of it for the sailing I do. Of those forementioned qualities, I appreciated or understood far fewer of them at purchase than I would care to admit.

failure to look at our own boats and our evolving sailing needs honestly is the fuel that fires the ongoing disconnect between AWB advocates and people like Concerto who is equally guilty on the other side. Your needs will change beyond purchase. Your sailing will be shaped by the boat and your requirements of the boat will be shaped by your ever-evolving sailing path.

if you really think your boat still fits your sailing a decade after purchase, whatever the boat, you have arrived at a point where your sailing is not continuing to develop.

it is sad if that happens because that is quite the opposite of the essence of sailing and yachtsmanship. But it would be as well, from either a MAB or AWB POV, to preference all comments with words to that effect if so.

I hope to develop as a sailor on every trip over a lifetime. I also love my boat- not as a marque, or as a concept, but as the boat I chose on imperfect information many years ago- and I hope to sail her for that lifetime. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that reflects on my competence as a sailor or on her competence as a boat by being open to critique of both.

 

[ashtead]

What occurs to me as I follow this thread is the apparent sub text that designers of recent built boats have suddenly lost all that wisdom of the ages. Our boat is designed by Bill Dixon and while it didn’t start life on the Hamble or in Plymouth I tend to think that being new has many advantages . I sure many designers less well known to me of Hanse and Bavaria also have a long track record of design. I somehow doubt that Mr BD suddenly loss his corporate memory when asked to design a new Moody in 2009 and no doubt if designers of Westerlys were still around they would still be producing updated designs. I’m not saying the insides of some modern Hanse and Bavaria are always attractive or without sharp angles but that doesn’t condemn all models. I would be nice to buy a newly crafted Nordic vessel but for many it’s hard to justify the mark up for a HR or Malo or Sirius etc.

 

[johnalison]

.if you really think your boat still fits your sailing a decade after purchase, whatever the boat, you have arrived at a point where your sailing is not continuing to develop.

it is sad if that happens because that is quite the opposite of the essence of sailing and yachtsmanship. But it would be as well, from either a MAB or AWB POV, to preference all comments with words to that effect if so.

I must count myself as an utter failure then, having owned and enjoyed the same boat for over twenty years. At the ten-year mark I passed my 70th birthday and the two of us had sailed her from North Brittany and Ireland to Poland and waters in between. Perhaps you think that we should have followed our club mates and explored Scotland or Biscay, but neither of these had any special appeal to me. During our period of failed ambition we returned to the Baltic and Western Channel for several years before having to limit our range through decrepitude. Maybe our lack of ambition will count against us when we meet St Peter but that is a chance we will have to take.

 

[bitbaltic]

I must count myself as an utter failure then, having owned and enjoyed the same boat for over twenty years. At the ten-year mark I passed my 70th birthday and the two of us had sailed her from North Brittany and Ireland to Poland and waters in between. Perhaps you think that we should have followed our club mates and explored Scotland or Biscay, but neither of these had any special appeal to me. During our period of failed ambition we returned to the Baltic and Western Channel for several years before having to limit our range through decrepitude. Maybe our lack of ambition will count against us when we meet St Peter but that is a chance we will have to take.

I sincerely hope you are not as decrepit as you say, and your post indicates that, indeed, you still have a nerve or two to touch

 

[Dragonology]

I absolutely do not want to start a thread about the debate I've seen ranging on this, and other, forums, i.e. - older, generally heavier boats (Moody, Westerly) vs new European production boats.

How’s that going

It’s going really, really badly now! (but I'm not complaining - its very informative - my new favourite 'want to see' as a result of all of the above is a Hunter Channel 31 - seems like it was basically designed to try to straddle the old and new design concepts...shame they're a tad rare though)

 

[bitbaltic]

A

I absolutely do not want to start a thread about the debate I've seen ranging on this, and other, forums, i.e. - older, generally heavier boats (Moody, Westerly) vs new European production boats.

It’s going really, really badly now! (but I'm not complaining - its very informative - my new favourite 'want to see' as a result of all of the above is a Hunter Channel 31 - seems like it was basically designed to try to straddle the old and new design concepts...shame they're a tad rare though)

boat that fits both design concepts would be the Sadler 290- a boat that has never received a meaningful critique on these forums- but rare, probably about 10k over budget in good times, and probably unattainable in the current market

 

[ashtead]

Moody do produce rather attractive new boats -you don’t have to buy new AWB even today but sadly not in the smaller sizes of yore.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Here's a modern boat being knocked about a bit without taking any harm.

You do realize that that report is at least 35 years old (done by the German magazine Die Yacht, I remember it well).

In this context I'd love to know how people on here define what a modern boat is and when current designs became suspended from the laws of physics, never mind the sea-going comfort of their crews?

 

[Daydream believer]

Moody do produce rather attractive new boats -you don’t have to buy new AWB even today but sadly not in the smaller sizes of yore.

Built by Hanse

 

[dom]

Built by Hanse

Except, Moodies are built by craftsmen using digitally-detoxed resins and executive-grade aluminium?

 

[CJU]

If you are prepared to travel, may you could PM some of the posters to see if they will offer you a weekends’ sailing on their preferred boat. ?

 

[rotrax]

This is a precise illustration of what gets you guys into trouble. There is no perfect boat. All boats are compromises. I have owned my boat for 10 years and I now know exactly those qualities which mean I love sailing it and exactly those qualities which mean I must compromise and plan around its capabilities to get the best out of it for the sailing I do. Of those forementioned qualities, I appreciated or understood far fewer of them at purchase than I would care to admit.

failure to look at our own boats and our evolving sailing needs honestly is the fuel that fires the ongoing disconnect between AWB advocates and people like Concerto who is equally guilty on the other side. Your needs will change beyond purchase. Your sailing will be shaped by the boat and your requirements of the boat will be shaped by your ever-evolving sailing path.

if you really think your boat still fits your sailing a decade after purchase, whatever the boat, you have arrived at a point where your sailing is not continuing to develop.

it is sad if that happens because that is quite the opposite of the essence of sailing and yachtsmanship. But it would be as well, from either a MAB or AWB POV, to preference all comments with words to that effect if so.

I hope to develop as a sailor on every trip over a lifetime. I also love my boat- not as a marque, or as a concept, but as the boat I chose on imperfect information many years ago- and I hope to sail her for that lifetime. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that reflects on my competence as a sailor or on her competence as a boat by being open to critique of both.

Some sense there but you fall into the trap of assuming others want what you want from sailing.

Which they quite possibly dont.

First Mate and I came to sailing late. We were both experienced boaters, river and canal boats plus small seagoing outboard powered vessels, but no sailing experience.

18 years ago, training, boat share purchase, own boat purchase X 3 and we are where we are now.

After our previous life as long time Motorcycle Racers it was clear golf, bowls or budgie breeding would not fill the gap left by retiring from an adreniline sport.

Sailing did.

But we are not looking for what you are looking for.

I agree entirely that your choice suits you, just as our choice suits us.

Both might be anathma to many on here though...................................

Which is as it should be.

We required a boat with specific features, easily handled by a mature cruising couple and with lots of bells and whistles.

We have it. It is far from perfect, but as close as we could afford.

Which is good?

 

[Martin&Rene]

Following the OP original choice thoughts, I think he should also consider the predecessors to the Hanse 320. The Hanses 312, 315 and 341 from the 2000-2007 period sit in the gap between his 2 choices. To a certain extent they have the looks and finish of the "trad" designs, but the convenience and brightness of more recent designs. For 10 years we have been very happy up in Scotland with our 2003 Hanse 341. The 341, is basically the big brother of the 315 and shares the cockpit and much of the internal furniture. There aren't many around, so I would suggest giving the UK dealers, Michael Schmidt and Partners or Inspiration Marine to see if they know of one you could look at, or post a question on the MyHanse forum.

Last weekend, before the original post, we had our first sail of the season. On a 6 mile long light wind downwind leg, we passed the last version of the Moody 31. Over the whole of the leg, we were surprised just how much faster we were, though I have to say that as we passed them, we commented that we did not think their sail setting was optimal, even though we know they have sailed for quite a long time.

Remember, if you sail in tidal waters that extra bit of boat speed, can get you to your destination before the tide turns and after the tide has turned against you, it could make the difference between you getting somewhere, or not.