Hanse320/325 vs older boat

[Malo37]

Hanse are at the cheap end of the market so don't expect a particularly well built or sturdy boat.
Many of them are also almost flat bottomed which can be good for downwind speed in calm waters but not particularly seaworthy.

 

[Malo37]

My feelings are the reverse of yours and I wouldn't consider standing for anything more than a short hop of twenty minutes or so. I had a wheel for one of my four boats. Although it was OK to windward, I find a tiller more natural, with the advantage that you are almost entirely using flexor muscles in the arm, which are stronger and less tiring. Off the wind is where I think that a wheel does better especially as I get crick in the neck when helming off-wind for more than a few hours. You also have the advantage that you can't be frightened by large waves coming from astern. A tiller gives you a bigger cockpit table.

I agree. Also from the perspective of reliability, tillers have only one moving part with no gears, wires or pullys to worry about.

 

[Tranona]

Hanse are at the cheap end of the market so don't expect a particularly well built or sturdy boat.
Many of them are also almost flat bottomed which can be good for downwind speed in calm waters but not particularly seaworthy.

I doubt that the many happy Hanse owners who have undertaken ocean passages in their boats would agree with you. On what basis do you conclude that they are not well built or sturdy? Have you owned one and been disappointed?

 

[Concerto]

Very true! I find it odd that Concerto (an obvious Westerly fan) should dare to suggest keel vulnerability on modern boats. He only has to look at the poor record of Westerly keels, many of which came loose (usually without even hitting anything) and required extensive remedial work to strengthen the internal structure. Griffons, Pageants, Centaurs, GK24s, GK29s, Berwicks, Pentlands, to name just a few of the models with problems. With adequate structural reinforcement, these boats can be made sound, but it's not a cheap job and it should have happened in the factory to start with.

Here we go again comparing 50 year old boats to current production models which have been designed and built using different construction methods and materials. What a shame that modern designers still have not learnt the lessons from designers of the past about keel and hull strength. If modern construction is so much better then keel problem like a detatched keel matrix or a lost keel would never happen now. However is the pressure of keeping costs under control to keep the prices low and the mass production that should have made this problem a thing of the past, but we still keep hearing of keel problems. I have included the hull strength as it may be adequate for sailing, but once out of the water many yards find they MUST chock on a bulkhead as the hull can flex in strong winds and a boat can vibrate into a different position and, with risk assesments, there is the potential for a boat to slip over.

 

[pvb]

Here we go again comparing 50 year old boats to current production models which have been designed and built using different construction methods and materials. What a shame that modern designers still have not learnt the lessons from designers of the past about keel and hull strength.

I don't think you're following the discussion.

 

[dom]

Lol, to think the OP's second para opened !!

"I absolutely do not want to start a thread about the debate I've seen ranging on this, and other, forums, i.e. - older, generally heavier boats (Moody, Westerly) vs new European production boats."​

Obviously modern boats built without the charter market in mind will blow away older boats on any point of sailing and in any weather. But, they ain't cheap.

Which boils the question down to tradeoff between personal taste, money, and vessel condition. Each person will sit at a different point in this triangle and I think the OP was seeking some thoughts as to how he should think about his position. And he singled out the Hanse 320 and 325.

Perhaps we should just stick to his question?

 

[Concerto]

Lol, to think the OP's second para opened !!

"I absolutely do not want to start a thread about the debate I've seen ranging on this, and other, forums, i.e. - older, generally heavier boats (Moody, Westerly) vs new European production boats."​

Obviously modern boats built without the charter market in mind will blow away older boats on any point of sailing and in any weather. But, they ain't cheap.

Which boils the question down to tradeoff between personal taste, money, and vessel condition. Each person will sit at a different point in this triangle and I think the OP was seeking some thoughts as to how he should think about his position. And he singled out the Hanse 320 and 325.

Perhaps we should just stick to his question?

I have tried and not stressed older boats are better but the usual modern boat promoters keep trolling out the same comments of buy new. If this was the only solution, there would be no market for boats over a decade old. There are plenty of boats that would meet the OP's original requirements and I have tried with my original comments to give sensible advice and did not say he should only buy an old boat. I have only responded when they made comments that needed another view point. I decided to ignore one comment by pvb and only answered the comment he was responding to.

 

[bitbaltic]

I agree. Also from the perspective of reliability, tillers have only one moving part with no gears, wires or pullys to worry about.

Good thing my otherwise wildly unseaworthy Hanse has a tiller then. That’s one thing I don’t have to worry about, when she shakes her flat-bottomed cheaply-built hull to pieces in any kind of sea (which hasn’t yet happened despite a decade of cruising some pretty challenging water in the Bristol Channel) I’ll be in luck as I’ll have a sturdy bit of wooden wreckage to cling to while I wait for a solidly built MAB to saunter by and pick me up.

 

[matt1]

Good thing my otherwise wildly unseaworthy Hanse has a tiller then. That’s one thing I don’t have to worry about, when she shakes her flat-bottomed cheaply-built hull to pieces in any kind of sea (which hasn’t yet happened despite a decade of cruising some pretty challenging water in the Bristol Channel) I’ll be in luck as I’ll have a sturdy bit of wooden wreckage to cling to while I wait for a solidly built MAB to saunter by and pick me up.

Can you like a post twice? made me lol ?

 

[dom]

I have tried and not stressed older boats are better but the usual modern boat promoters keep trolling out the same comments of buy new. If this was the only solution, there would be no market for boats over a decade old. There are plenty of boats that would meet the OP's original requirements and I have tried with my original comments to give sensible advice and did not say he should only buy an old boat. I have only responded when they made comments that needed another view point. I decided to ignore one comment by pvb and only answered the comment he was responding to.

I‘m certainly not blaming you!

It’s just a pity when a perfectly sensible question gets trapped on the same Hotel California carousel which you can check out of but never leave!
?

 

[Daydream believer]

Here we go again comparing 50 year old boats to current production models which have been designed and built using different construction methods and materials. What a shame that modern designers still have not learnt the lessons from designers of the past about keel and hull strength. If modern construction is so much better then keel problem like a detatched keel matrix or a lost keel would never happen now. However is the pressure of keeping costs under control to keep the prices low and the mass production that should have made this problem a thing of the past, but we still keep hearing of keel problems. I have included the hull strength as it may be adequate for sailing, but once out of the water many yards find they MUST chock on a bulkhead as the hull can flex in strong winds and a boat can vibrate into a different position and, with risk assesments, there is the potential for a boat to slip over.

Just for the record, about 12 years ago, I hit a rock when motoring at 6kts in my Hanse 311. The sudden stop threw me several feet forward. I nearly went down into the cabin from the helm position. The only damage was to the antifoul. The rock was about 1200 down so it did apply quite a bit of leverage to the keel.
So i am more than happy with the strength of the keel on my boat.

 

[pvb]

I have tried and not stressed older boats are better but the usual modern boat promoters keep trolling out the same comments of buy new. If this was the only solution, there would be no market for boats over a decade old. There are plenty of boats that would meet the OP's original requirements and I have tried with my original comments to give sensible advice and did not say he should only buy an old boat. I have only responded when they made comments that needed another view point. I decided to ignore one comment by pvb and only answered the comment he was responding to.

It's untrue that Tranona or I have suggested buying new. We've suggested buying newer, for the simple reason that boats built this century have a lot of advantages.

 

[Malo37]

I doubt that the many happy Hanse owners who have undertaken ocean passages in their boats would agree with you. On what basis do you conclude that they are not well built or sturdy? Have you owned one and been disappointed?

I would say that people who have undertaken ocean passages, if indeed there are any, (assuming by that you mean crossing an ocean) in a Hanse, have been lucky they didn't encounter particularly bad weather.
I sailed along the Moray Firth in a new Hanse (not mine). When one of the crew stumbled in the cabin he lurched against the saloon table for support and the whole thing fell to bits. The hull was so thin that you could see the forecabin lights from outside - through the hull.

 

[Daydream believer]

I would say that people who have undertaken ocean passages, if indeed there are any, (assuming by that you mean crossing an ocean) in a Hanse, have been lucky they didn't encounter particularly bad weather.

Do you really believe that???

 

[JimC]

Do you really believe that???

 

[JimC]

Here's a modern boat being knocked about a bit without taking any harm.

 

[bitbaltic]

Just for the record, about 12 years ago, I hit a rock when motoring at 6kts in my Hanse 311. The sudden stop threw me several feet forward. I nearly went down into the cabin from the helm position. The only damage was to the antifoul. The rock was about 1200 down so it did apply quite a bit of leverage to the keel.
So i am more than happy with the strength of the keel on my boat.

I well remember your account.

Some people here would insist this is a mandatory component of an AWB test sail ‘or I’m not buying it mate’.

I think Dufour made a video to this effect years ago but discerning customers are not easily satisfied.

edit, it was Dehler and already posted!

 

[Daydream believer]

Here's a modern boat being knocked about a bit without taking any harm.

We have visitors to our marina who can do that

 

[Malo37]

Here's a modern boat being knocked about a bit without taking any harm.

Hull flexing damage
Quality problems with the interior
Let's not have a copy and paste competition.
There many excellent modern boats.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hanse now make the Dehler range of yachts But I would expect the OP to exclude that, as it is more race orientated.