Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash

[Stemar]

Am I right in thinking that inshore lifeboats - who do white knuckle rides as a matter of routine - are fitted with an airbag on the "roll bar" that makes them self-righting? If so, seat belts would make sense.

 

[Adios]

A sad example from skydiving, negligence led to death and $40 million payment. Are these payments paid by insurance companies or do they often not get the money because the company at fault goes bust? Our usual 3rd party liability insurance is 3 or 5 million, whats normal in the US?

If paid by insurance will they spread the cost over only sky diving policies? You'd think that might make them unaffordable. Or spread over all types of policies? In which case we all end up paying for their negligence. Once policies go up it seems to become the normal price and never go down again so in the end the insurance companies will profit from it.

 

[penfold]

Am I right in thinking that inshore lifeboats - who do white knuckle rides as a matter of routine - are fitted with an airbag on the "roll bar" that makes them self-righting? If so, seat belts would make sense.

I've never come across one that was intended for the occupants to remain seated while it works, certainly ours are all manually operated and we bail out of the vessel once its inverted, move aft and are well out of the way before the cox 'lights the blue touch paper'; it's quite slow so you'd need to be good at holding your breath if strapped to a seat.

 

[Greenheart]

Would having three-quarters of a tonne of people strapped into their seats, delay the effectiveness of the righting system?

 

[scottie]

Am I right in thinking that inshore lifeboats - who do white knuckle rides as a matter of routine - are fitted with an airbag on the "roll bar" that makes them self-righting? If so, seat belts would make sense.

Not sure about the smaller ones

 

[JumbleDuck]

A sad example from skydiving, negligence led to death and $40 million payment.

Holy smoke - twenty other deaths?

 

[Adios]

Holy smoke - twenty other deaths?

Yes and still operating. Have to wonder how they were still going. Does having liability insurance allow them to keep going as they don't have to pay out personally? If the hit to the insurance company from claims is spread over all policy holders maybe their insurance premium doesn't go up enough to encourage better safety. IE the civil suit factor doesn't lead to better safety which people seem to be assuming.

 

[penberth3]

I've never come across one that was intended for the occupants to remain seated while it works, certainly ours are all manually operated and we bail out of the vessel once its inverted, move aft and are well out of the way before the cox 'lights the blue touch paper'; it's quite slow so you'd need to be good at holding your breath if strapped to a seat.

IIRC, RNLI Atlantics are the same - air bag manually operated from the transom.

 

[Juan Twothree]

IIRC, RNLI Atlantics are the same - air bag manually operated from the transom.

You're correct.

Any crew who happen to be under the boat remove themselves to the outside, we all hold on to a line at the stern, and then pull the righting handle.

Takes around 20 seconds from pulling the handle to the boat righting.

Different procedure for the smaller D class.

 

[Greenheart]

What is the thinking behind manual operation? Isn't a sustained period of inversion, a reliable reason to trigger auto inflation?

 

[penberth3]

A sad example from skydiving, negligence led to death and $40 million payment. Are these payments paid by insurance companies or do they often not get the money because the company at fault goes bust?.....

Not unknown for companies to dodge prosecution or payment of fines by liquidating. Civil claims should be covered by insurance, as long as the company is operating within the terms of the policy. There is Director's personal liability, if the claim is against individuals rather than the company, but that can also be avoided, e.g. by putting assets in another name.

 

[Adios]

Not unknown for companies to dodge prosecution or payment of fines by liquidating. Civil claims should be covered by insurance, as long as the company is operating within the terms of the policy. There is Director's personal liability, if the claim is against individuals rather than the company, but that can also be avoided, e.g. by putting assets in another name.

Right so civil claims will have no impact on encouraging responsibility because they have no personal liability and barely any company repercussion. Criminal prosecution is the only thing irresponsible people might be scared of.

 

[Juan Twothree]

What is the thinking behind manual operation? Isn't a sustained period of inversion, a reliable reason to trigger auto inflation?

You really wouldn't want to be under the boat when it rights. Lots of injury potential, apart from anything else.

Also, part of the procedure is to deploy the sea anchor, which is also done remotely from the stern. It takes a few seconds to turn the inverted boat head to sea.

 

[penberth3]

Right so civil claims will have no impact on encouraging responsibility because they have no personal liability and barely any company repercussion. Criminal prosecution is the only thing irresponsible people might be scared of.

I wouldn't say NO personal liability - it's there but can be avoided by the unscrupulous.

 

[Quackers]

Not unknown for companies to dodge prosecution or payment of fines by liquidating. Civil claims should be covered by insurance, as long as the company is operating within the terms of the policy. There is Director's personal liability, if the claim is against individuals rather than the company, but that can also be avoided, e.g. by putting assets in another name.

Like Stormforce Coaching and the Cheeki Rafiki case.

 

[Greenheart]

13th January 2023

Anybody following the case? Started on Wednesday...

Emily Lewis death: Skipper caused fatal speedboat crash, court hears

 

[Bouba]

13th January 2023

Anybody following the case? Started on Wednesday...

Emily Lewis death: Skipper caused fatal speedboat crash, court hears

It’s an interesting case....I remember in Africa going on two rides, one by microlight and the other by helicopter....for legal purposes we had to sign on as co-captain (or something similar)...of course our travel insurance would not cover us (if you read the restrictions on your travel insurance policy you will wonder what’s the point of going on holiday). So I wonder if there was any kind of release or similar that the passengers had to sign before boarding

 

[Adios]

So I wonder if there was any kind of release or similar that the passengers had to sign before boarding

There's only so much that sort of consent form will release them from responsibility, seen some around taking part in motorsport or watching at an event "can be dangerous, come at your own risk". But him driving headlong into something specifically designed to be visible, in broad daylight, is never going to be excusable as a normal risk associated with going on a rib. A waiver might make a bit of side cash for each parties lawyers in terms of arguing over settling compensation but won't have any bearing on criminal culpability for negligent manslaughter.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There's only so much that sort of consent form will release them from responsibility, seen some around taking part in motorsport or watching at an event "can be dangerous, come at your own risk". But him driving headlong into something specifically designed to be visible, in broad daylight, is never going to be excusable as a normal risk associated with going on a rib. A waiver might make a bit of side cash for each parties lawyers in terms of arguing over settling compensation but won't have any bearing on criminal culpability for negligent manslaughter.

Negligence or misconduct cannot be covered by any kind of waiver, and wording that tries to do so will be struck down by a judge, potentially removing things that could be covered. Disclaimers and waivers are a legal minefield; I was always told to state what data were good for and what failings it had, with the onus then being on the user to decide whether it was suitable for their application. My favourite was "the absence of a feature on this map does not mean that there is no feature"

 

[Bathdave]

This is a criminal trial, the legal effectiveness of waivers etc is irrelevant.

seperately to the criminal trial there will be a claim for damages, which the insurers will either settle or contest, if they think a signed waiver is something they can hide behind