penberth3
Well-known member
Yes, I get that. "Bullshit" was for the suggestion killing and injuring passengers was acceptable.
Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash
- Thread starter KompetentKrew
- Start date
Yes, I get that. "Bullshit" was for the suggestion killing and injuring passengers was acceptable.
boatiebert
N/A
Putting aside the possibility, as on the road, that he was reading messages on his mobile phone or checking up on his Facebook profile, my experience of crashing motorcycles was generally related to trying to show off. As in, I lost it to my ego before I lost it on the road. Know more than a few who did while doing so for the sake of impressing a pretty girl.
Wouldn't it have had some navigation display in front of him too?
boatiebert
N/A
Actual boat. If that's the only grab rail to hold on to, you would get me in it unless I was driving it. If it slammed sideways, as reported, may be she hit the stainless steel "crashbar" around the bench seat? Autopsy would tell.
savageseadog
Well-known member
My perception of this is that if someone decides to ride around in a fast "thrill" boat like that there should be at least some onus on the rider to decide if it's safe or not. I don't subscribe to the complete devolution of safety decisions to third parties. It's not as if the dangers are hidden in any way. The incident was an accident but not entirely unforseeable one.
boatiebert
N/A
15 year old? It's on the parents' then.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
How could anyone tell in advance that the driver would smack straight into a navigation buoy? On teh rare occasions when I fly I don't feel the need to second guess whether the pilot will lose concentration and take the top of Edinburgh Airport tower on his way in.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Well from my experience in Dinghy Sailing Clubs, if the Rescue boats are being maned by them who like Dinghy Sailing /Racing etc plus passing RYA courses they are inclined to race up and down the Racing Fleet often to no real purpose, creating undue wash and disruption to the fleet; real Boy Racer types; so guess whatever the top speed of rescue craft operating within the Rules of max speed and wash is important ; speedboating is ok when operating in the specific nominated areas for such activities, surealy ?
Clearly in the incident where a passenger lost her life due to injuries caused by a failure to navigate roperly , perhaps the Driver was not paying due attention to ALL the issues involved at that time; maybe in time some investigation into His actions /decisions, the craft, the weather conditions, the speed, wave heights etc etc will announce upon the matter, then just maybe not ?
penberth3
Well-known member
You might think that, but fortunately British law doesn't. The average punter has no idea of what's safe, and isn't equipped to make that decision. Responsibiity is entirely with the operator.
savageseadog
Well-known member
It is the case of course a fact that nothing in life is 100% safe. We all continuously assess situations we may enter into for risk.A rubber boat zipping around at high speed is far from zero risk, anyone deciding to ride on it accepts that risk. Somebody made a low probability but never zero probability mistake, result catastrophe.Perhaps the best option would have been to forbid the operation in the first place.
Quoting the aeroplane analogy it is the case that people do make judgements about whether to fly or not. Anyone care to fly some of the third world airlines?
Bouba
Well-known member
There are a lot of thrill rides that we do, especially on holiday but check the small print of your holiday insurance. See if they regard it as safe
boatiebert
N/A
Noise and fumes.
Personally I'd love to highly irresponsible & anti-social in a speedboat. I mean, why not? I've done it in every other medium I've indulged in from motorcycles to the internet.
I have one fantasy of blatting down a canal at 35knots and jumping over a lock gate just to ire the dog walking, Barbour jacket brigade, but I've become responsible and considerate of others with age, especially what it comes to noise. It literally harms people's health.
Stick an electric motor in & don't hit any swimmers & I'll forget you were there.
But, unless you've got a superyacht to ferry totties out to, what's the point of a speedboat? You go up one way, down the same, & that's that. It's all flat. I think it's one of those things that men have fantasies about but when they actually get there, they think "So that all there is?"
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Nice selective quote/edit, and your reply confirms the part you left out.
But I agree. 'speedboating' does nothing for me either, but I'm not calling for sticking stupid speed limits on them or sending them miles offshore. Noise, well, sore point too, but it has nothing to do with this accident - and not only because these ribs aren't noisy.
ps. @Capt Popeye - I do drive sailing club ribs, and we do sometimes need to get from one end of the fleet to the other at speed, but we do it with enormous tact and humility. Besides, sometimes we're the finish line and they'd be well hacked off if we didn't.
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boatiebert
N/A
I'm not sure what you're inferring here but don't those RIBs also come with a heavy metal soundtrack blasting out of loud speakers to get the juices flowing?
What's the decibel rating for a 200hp outboard motor, or whatever they use?
I thought the topic was broader and included seadoos and near shore speedboats etc but, yes, anything beyond a flapping sail or the heart beat chug of a diesel is unwarranted noise.
Having suffered for years anti-social domestic noise from our dear, sweet colonial friends in the inner cities with their pumped up cars & sound systems, I'm really struck how far in favour of the abused the law is canted, instead of the abused. Basically, they have the right to invade your or shared space with their noise, and the onus and cost of doing anything about is on society and you via a legal system that is geared up to prohibit such cases. Except "society" (local government) doesn't have any money to police it, as they too would be forced to take everything through the courts. And, god forbid, you take matters into your own hands. THEN they'll come down upon you, not the original offender.
Much the same applies on the water. It's their right to offend, & if it offenders you, because your peace is destroyed, there's a vast & impossible bureaucracy set up to obstruct anything being done about it.
The onus is all wrong, & it should be the other way around. Someone wanting to make noise & invade others peace, should have to prove they have an utter necessity to do so, like essential trades or DIY etc.
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Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Might suggest that to have a Safety Boat as the Finishing Line crew appears a wee bit quaint to say the least; why not another Moored Boat, suitabily equiped moored up , so no need for a speed boat dash so upsetting those racing in light airs; also if the Safety Boat is also the Finishing Line crew , who decides which it will be in an Emergency ?
My observations from many Dinghy Races is that the Rescue Boat if driven by Dinghy Racing Types its used as a Speed Boat Jolly, when the Rescue Boat is driven by experienced motor Boat types its driven far more safely and with considerations
Getting back to the terrible event in question, I in part think that the Persons /Associations responsible for the condition and marking of them Buoys are irresponsible , I am sure that in todays oft high speed and at night boating activities the Buoys can be marked in such a way as to make the far easier to see, whilst still following the Red /Green buoyage systems
Oft seeing a Buoy thats got seaweed, grudge, rust, on it above the water line make them really difficult to see; Some Buoys have Radar indicators ontop, to aid recognition, but not much use if one does not have Radar I assume; by marking the Buoys in a Hi Vis colour might aid considerably their recognition during the darker hours
boatiebert
N/A
Yeah, in the medium term I guess we'll see trickle downs from the AI self-drive automobile world, e.g. buoys sending signals to cause engine stalls or alarms?
Adios
...
To the actual edge of life and death? You think they MUST have appreciated that before boarding the boat in still water? Maybe if it was their second time going on it we can say they should have judged it for themselves, but the first time they must have been assured it was a safe thrill ride by the operator.
Exactly. Or "We're going to cock about like a teenage boy racer getting as close as possible to killing you for a laugh. We'll do this day in day out until one day it WILL go wrong and someone WILL die. Roll up roll up today it could be you."
All the talk of the PBL2 is irrelevant as it doesn't score people on how much of a dangerous moron they'll be for the rest of their life. I hope this will lead to a well deserved prison sentence but by the nature of morons it won't change the behaviour of the fast rib trip people as they'll believe they are a more skilful type of moron. It would need regulation.
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Stemar
Well-known member
Just like the morons on the road. Dunning Kruger rules
I think this sort of thing is far more like a rally day, where you get a skilled driver to take you round a special stage and scare any normal person shitless. There is an element of risk, but it's minimised. It isn't, and never could be as safe as pottering taking the Red funnel, so comparisons with bus drivers aren't valid.
The skipper is described as experienced and familiar with the waters, so questions about the visibility of the buoy don't seem relevant - he knew it was there. Excluding any mechanical failure or illness - I think we'd have heard about them, ISTM that the only other explanation is that he wasn't looking where he was going. Why, and whether that constitutes sufficient recklessness or negligence to amount to manslaughter is for a court to decide. Then there's the question of civil liability...
cpedw
Well-known member
Not if they are using a new Boeing design
Greenheart
Well-known member
I mentioned buses because like Red Funnel, they're transport - essential. Even fast RIBs serving as ferries to oil rigs are essential...
...if an accident involves an essential service, it's a grave worry and warrants all possible prevention of repetition, because no part of that service intentionally seeks boisterous conditions or encourages passengers' perception of speed to provide frivolous thrills.
But if an accident occurs on a trip made exclusively to provide white-knuckle rides to passengers, the way to prevent repetition is to stop providing the experience. That banishment isn't likely to happen. The best we can hope for, is that passengers are made aware of their total reliance on the judgement of the driver - who unlike a bus driver, is not paid solely to deliver passengers safely.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I've been on a fast RIB trip from Ellenbeich. It was good fun but at no time did I feel at all in danger - no close passes to buoys, delicate handling through the rey Dogs and Coirebhreacan, slow speeds in the congested areas of Easdale. I'd met their RIBs at sea before and their manners were always impeccable, keeping away and/or slowing down as required.
These trips can be done sensibly and safely yet still be fun and exciting. There is absolutely no need to pratt around like a boy racer with a souped up Morris Marina 1.8TC (am I showing my age here?).
