Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash

[dom]

Worth remembering that we're sailors, not a prosecuting authority.

If we can't drop notions to the contrary, this tragic and thought provoking thread will sadly close.

 

[Greenheart]

Is the thread tragic?

Is it likely that the Interim Report would have mentioned a mechanical (or other non-human) failure, had there been one?

If there wasn't a failure of the controls themselves, isn't the failure necessarily of the skipper's judgement?

All that matters is preventing repetition. If it can be shown that there is significant potential danger in qualified skippers passing close to navigation marks at speed in pursuit of excitement, it seems reasonable to cease doing so as a matter of safe practice.

 

[dom]

Is the thread tragic?
...................

Clue is in its title.

 

[scruff]

I think anyone driving around at 40 knots in the Solent should be prosecuted ...

That would rule out the next America's cup and SailGP from hosting an event in the Solent then!

 

[Greenheart]

Clue is in its title.

Ah. Of course the thread is us, just a fascinated, furious, appalled, flippant, defensive, irreverent, irrelevant, dimly-lit sharing system for what happens to be a tragic story. I thought by 'tragic' you might be referring to August's meltdown into go-fast types sniping at others' eager pursuit of reasons, plus the expressions of horror at the actual tragedy, mutating into calls for vengeful justice.

I wonder if the Interim Report will look markedly different from the MAIB's final word?

I predict it'll be like Father Ted..."Take care...mind how you go."

 

[dom]

Ah. Of course the thread is us, just a fascinated, furious, appalled, flippant, defensive, irreverent, irrelevant, dimly-lit sharing system for what happens to be a tragic story. I thought by 'tragic' you might be referring to August's meltdown into go-fast types sniping at others' eager pursuit of reasons, plus the expressions of horror at the actual tragedy, mutating into calls for vengeful justice.

I wonder if the Interim Report will look markedly different from the MAIB's final word?

I predict it'll be like Father Ted..."Take care...mind how you go."

Remember, the MAIB's final word has, by design, absolutely nothing to do with the question of culpability.

That is for the CPA/MCA to determine.

 

[madabouttheboat]

nah - you know exactly what I mean.. ..........

Jet skis and Ribs and motorboats bombing around recreational waters causing nuisance and a threat to others ..

obviously they should be prosecuted ... .. selfish behaviour at best - dangerous stupidity at worse.

Nope, your not getting any more sensible.

 

[boatiebert]

2 It was licenced. So what are you proposing changing?

Vehicles speed limited, new vehicles fitted with GPS limiters. Black boxes fitted. It would be really easy to do. Boy racers hate them.

Has this case been concluded? I missed it at the time.

Damn shame, the girl was going to grow up to be a beauty. The Sun offered more helpful details. Sounds like she was in the front seat and physically hit the buoy.

There's no functional purpose for those boats outside of Special Operations in the Marines.

I see it's still under investigation. The Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations page makes for sobering reading.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Vehicles speed limited, new vehicles fitted with GPS limiters. Black boxes fitted. It would be really easy to do. Boy racers hate them.

Has this case been concluded? I missed it at the time.

Damn shame, the girl was going to grow up to be a beauty. The Sun offered more helpful details. Sounds like she was in the front seat and physically hit the buoy.

There's no functional purpose for those boats outside of Special Operations in the Marines.

I see it's still under investigation. The Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations page makes for sobering reading.

It would probably have been equally fatal at half the speed, so where do you want to set your limit? Being polite here.

 

[boatiebert]

This is for seagoos included? Something akin to pavement walking and electrical bike/scooter riding.

The noise is the worst for me.

4mph in waters shared with swimmers or non-motorised vessels, like the canals & rivers have; 12mph out to designated open waters; with unlimited use only in designated sports areas for competitions, like the motor racing it is.

They've only got a 6 knot until they get out of the marina.

Otherwise, go to Alton Towers.

Note some of the reviews

Bloody awesome

Omg that was just amazing, Mike was our skipper he knew exactly what to do with that rib, throwing it round , jumps and speed he has a great sense of humour and very friendly .
Highly recommend can’t wait to do battle of the ribs ?​

Absolutely amazing

My partner and i went on the speedboat experience and just WOW! the captains were hilarious and gave us the most amazing and thrilling experience ever... and the wettest!?
Can't recommend this experience enough, high speeds, sharp turns, big jumps and all seemingly as safe as houses.

Battle of the boats experience

Had fantastic time on the battle of the boats experience , did the 90 minute trip , which works out about 60 mins on the water, and about 30 mins of full on battle , where the boats race each other try to blast as much water over the other boat, you will get absolutely soaked, but love every minute of it. The speeds the boats can get up to is something to be believed. Ian and Mick provide some good banter on the boat.

​

​

 

[Blue Sunray]

nah - you know exactly what I mean.. ..........

Jet skis and Ribs and motorboats bombing around recreational waters causing nuisance and a threat to others ..

obviously they should be prosecuted ... .. selfish behaviour at best - dangerous stupidity at worse.

Rather like sailing races across main shipping or boating channels.

 

[boatiebert]

What speeds are we talking?

Conversely, sailing's largely only a danger because it's too slow. but at least by design its kept away from places with kids in water wings.

 

[penfold]

Vehicles speed limited, new vehicles fitted with GPS limiters. Black boxes fitted. It would be really easy to do. Boy racers hate them.

Has this case been concluded? I missed it at the time.

Damn shame, the girl was going to grow up to be a beauty. The Sun offered more helpful details. Sounds like she was in the front seat and physically hit the buoy.

There's no functional purpose for those boats outside of Special Operations in the Marines.

I see it's still under investigation. The Marine Accident Investigation Branch: current investigations page makes for sobering reading.

The MAIB video summary offers a clear precis; the deceased was sitting on the aft-most passenger seat.

 

[boatiebert]

The MAIB video summary offers a clear precis; the deceased was sitting on the aft-most passenger seat.

What caused the catastrophic damage to her abdomen then, thrown onto the seats in front? These boats don't (can't I suppose), have safety belts?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

This is for seagoos included? Something akin to pavement walking and electrical bike/scooter riding.

The noise is the worst for me.

4mph in waters shared with swimmers or non-motorised vessels, like the canals & rivers have; 12mph out to designated open waters; with unlimited use only in designated sports areas for competitions, like the motor racing it is.

They've only got a 6 knot until they get out of the marina.

Otherwise, go to Alton Towers.

Note some of the reviews

The accident happened in designated open water with an advisory 40kt speed limit. It's also where I've been known to sail my un-motorised keelboat, but I don't have any more right to the area than any rib, jetski or other implement of noise generation.

 

[Bouba]

There surely must be some reality here, if you go on a ‘thrill’ ride you must appreciate you have put yourself in harms way. While the operator has to mitigate as much danger as possible, the passengers are willing participants in a dangerous event. It’s akin to going to a cricket match and getting hit in the head by the ball. It’s an inherent risk. While no one deserves to die, the thrill comes from taking you to the edge.

 

[boatiebert]

"Rights" are just agreements between individuals, calling them such is just some kind of flourish to add additional importance. I wouldn't call the Solent "open water".

What "right" do they have to blast my ears with their noise? It typical of our modern world that those doing the offending have all the "rights", and those suffering it have none & are expected to just suck it up. Why?

Some countries have license systems that allow skippers to sail up to but not exceeding five nautical miles offshore and then more than five nautical miles offshore. I was thinking more like that. May be more than 2 miles would be enough. What ever is far enough that a speedboat or seadoo operator wouldn't want to go out to it.

It’s akin to going to a cricket match and getting hit in the head by the ball. It’s an inherent risk.

Hmmn, I say more on a par wth getting in a racing rally car or sidecar outfit on a race track. Or in a boxing ring.

It's bizarre, I thought perhaps it was bouncing about on a wake or the skipper blinded by spray but when you see the photos, it was pretty much flat calm water with perfect visibility. Even hitting the water at 40 knots is going to hurt or kill. How do these commercial RIBs work, they can't have people belted in, can they? The sitting position is awfully high and exposed.

As an aside, I remember a few years ago a Fairey Atalanta hit one of these buoy. It's presumed that the skipper had set it as one of his waypoints on autopilot as they weren't at the helm at the time. It shattered the hot moulded bow and the boat sank almost immediately. If I remember right, one of the lads had to be rescued clutching onto the buoy.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

"Rights" are just agreements between individuals, calling them such is just some kind of flourish to add additional importance. I wouldn't call the Solent "open water".

What "right" do they have to blast my ears with their noise? It typical of our modern world that those doing the offending have all the "rights", and those suffering it have none & are expected to just suck it up. Why?

Some countries have license systems that allow skippers to sail up to but not exceeding five nautical miles offshore and then more than five nautical miles offshore. I was thinking more like that. May be more than 2 miles would be enough. What ever is far enough that a speedboat or seadoo operator wouldn't want to go out to it.



Hmmn, I say more on a par wth getting in a racing rally car or sidecar outfit on a race track. Or in a boxing ring.

It's bizarre, I thought perhaps it was bouncing about on a wake or the skipper blinded by spray but when you see the photos, it was pretty much flat calm water with perfect visibility. Even hitting the water at 40 knots is going to hurt or kill. How do these commercial RIBs work, they can't have people belted in, can they? The sitting position is awfully high and exposed.

As an aside, I remember a few years ago a Fairey Atalanta hit one of these buoy. It's presumed that the skipper had set it as one of his waypoints on autopilot as they weren't at the helm at the time. It shattered the hot moulded bow and the boat sank almost immediately. If I remember right, one of the lads had to be rescued clutching onto the buoy.

If we can stick to speed for a minute - what of the 20kt catamarans operating from Weston Sailing Club? Their rescue boats?

Or is it really just about the noise and the fact that you personally have no interest in speedboating?

You've unwittingly highlighted the real problem in your last paragraph - watchkeeping.

 

[colhel]

I think if you want to sail in a peaceful tranquil enviorement, its probably best not to choose an area with large commercial ports and the highest concentration of marinas in the Country.
Edit. This is in response to those complaining about noise and other boat users

 

[Stemar]

Any speed limit will be ignored by the all balls and no brains brigade, just as limits are ignored on the road by similar people. Black boxes and other forms of "automatic" enforcement would mean us all falling foul of the kind of controls and legislation we go sailing to get away from.

Tragic as this accident is, and irrespective of whether manslaughter or any other charges are brought, it's worth remembering that "something must be done" legislation is almost always flawed, and it will catch us out in just the same way as knife legislation has made criminals of yotties who forget to take their Leatherman off their belt when they go shopping. Such accidents are very rare. How many people are killed or seriously injured on boats in a year? I've no figures, but I suspect it's low single figures, and a fair proportion achieve it by walking off the pontoon on the way back from the pub.

We have all the laws we need to protect us on the water, but no laws will prevent negligence. We don't need any more.

Sure idiot jetskiers can be a pain, but are they really that bad? Serious danger to life and limb only really happens when they speed amongst swimmers, and I suspect that's covered by existing legislation, if anyone could be bothered to enforce it. Charging around your anchorage at gin o'clock can easily be sorted with a Bofors gun on the foredeck