Bavaria pre-sales

[Whaup367]

Prompted by the comment on the Spirit Yachts thread about snooty salespeople... we had a similar experience with Bavaria at last year's Boat Show... we'd made an arrangement to chat to someone at a specific time but they appeared to be busy talking to someone else... we asked a couple of other people when someone might be available but were fobbed off. We were reasonably well-dressed, well-spoken etc, no reason for anyone to assume we were not serious buyers (we were made perfectly welcome by the Rassy dealers not far away).
I guess it's down to the behaviour of individuals at the event but given the likely need for post-sales dealer support with any yacht purchase, lack of engagement before they have your money seems a massive red flag!

Maybe we would have had a better experience if we'd been asking about a bigger boat, or not mentioned that we'd consider buying used?

Needless to say we didn't buy a Bavaria... but looking back I'd be curious to know if our experience was unusual: how have other UK buyers found Bavaria reps/dealers attitude recently? Did we shoot ourselves in the foot or dodge a bullet?

 

[Bobc]

Did we shoot ourselves in the foot or dodge a bullet?

The former.

 

[lustyd]

I was in scruffy shorts at the show and the Bavaria dealer was great. We were left to explore alone and he then followed up afterwards and had a chat. He seemed to take on board what we said about how small the C42 was internally compared to some other options at the show (Hanse or Dufour, I forget which). Having dealt with their dealers when buying my boat (second hand Jeanneau) I thought they were pretty good and professional throughout.

 

[Minerva]

You were at a boat show. There will be any number of folk walking the pontoons who could be potential customer and it would be remiss of the Bavaria rep to fob them off whilst they stood about waiting for you. It would be perfectly reasonable in those conditions for you to expect to wait 10 mins to speak with a rep.

 

[Whaup367]

You were at a boat show. There will be any number of folk walking the pontoons who could be potential customer and it would be remiss of the Bavaria rep to fob them off whilst they stood about waiting for you. It would be perfectly reasonable in those conditions for you to expect to wait 10 mins to speak with a rep.

Yes, very true... that's why we agreed a time to meet in advance and let them know what we were interested in. I think we waited about 15 minutes or so aboard one of their boats, after asking for the individual we'd arranged to meet.
Perhaps we were impatient, I don't have any regrets but am curious whether others have had the same experience. There were lots of other boats to look at and we are very happy with the one we bought. I'd be very surprised if anyone at Bavaria/Clipper was bothered about not talking to us (I'm sure they have plenty of better customers), just curious as to whether our experience was unusual. We were well received at the other manufacturers/dealers we met, it was only Bavaria who were not interested.

 

[Clancy Moped]

Commission-based sales jobs can sometimes lead to a lack of customer service.

 

[matt1]

I had a somewhat similar experience before buying my Hanse. I'd been all set on a (bigger) Bavaria and had been talking to them on & off for 5 months or so. Tbf they took me seriously - even more so when they sensed the sale was going away from them. I had gone to Swanwick & Dussedorf to meet them, but in the end I was persuaded to buy the Hanse by the enthusiasm of Hanse's sales folk (who sail!). I think I may be right in saying that at least one of the sales team (at the time) at Clipper doesn't actually sail. What finally sent me in Hanse's direction was the answer to my question of "how does she sail" to which the Bavaria sales person said "She's a Bavaria, if you want to tweak ropes she isn't for you"... I kind of get that, and they were right (in a way) and very honest, but it really put me off. This was shortly after Bavaria came out of receivership and I will say the dealer was very flexible and highly competitive (could have bought a bigger Bavaria for less £ than the Hanse). Flexible with options too.

 

[RobWard]

Yes, very true... that's why we agreed a time to meet in advance and let them know what we were interested in. I think we waited about 15 minutes or so aboard one of their boats, after asking for the individual we'd arranged to meet.
Perhaps we were impatient, I don't have any regrets but am curious whether others have had the same experience. There were lots of other boats to look at and we are very happy with the one we bought. I'd be very surprised if anyone at Bavaria/Clipper was bothered about not talking to us (I'm sure they have plenty of better customers), just curious as to whether our experience was unusual. We were well received at the other manufacturers/dealers we met, it was only Bavaria who were not interested.

Of course it's down to the individual on the day, but in my (quite extensive) experience of trade shows, trying to make and keep appointments is a complete no-no. Invariably if you fob off a browser who's wandered on to the stand, the person you were waiting for doesn't show up, and the browser never comes back either; and if you're waiting to keep an appointment, a punter waving a large cheque book invariably turns up 1 minute before the booked person, who then throws a hissy fit. Best thing we found was to phone or text people when we were free.

 

[johnalison]

I was in scruffy shorts at the show and the Bavaria dealer was great. We were left to explore alone and he then followed up afterwards and had a chat. He seemed to take on board what we said about how small the C42 was internally compared to some other options at the show (Hanse or Dufour, I forget which). Having dealt with their dealers when buying my boat (second hand Jeanneau) I thought they were pretty good and professional throughout.

You are clearly part of the market they are aiming for.

 

[Whaup367]

Of course it's down to the individual on the day, but in my (quite extensive) experience of trade shows, trying to make and keep appointments is a complete no-no. Invariably if you fob off a browser who's wandered on to the stand, the person you were waiting for doesn't show up, and the browser never comes back either; and if you're waiting to keep an appointment, a punter waving a large cheque book invariably turns up 1 minute before the booked person, who then throws a hissy fit. Best thing we found was to phone or text people when we were free.

Thanks, interesting insight, appreciate your sharing it. I'll put my hand up to being in the hissy fit camp: For background, we'd not been to the Show previously, it was a long and pretty expensive trip to attend and we were apprehensive that we might find it a waste of time if we turned up on "spec" and didn't manage to get time to look at the boats we wanted to, or speak to the right people. To try & mitigate this we contacted a number of dealers in advance to arrange a time to meet: think we reached out to three or four (Dufour, Beneteau, Bavaria, HR,... maybe Dehler and J/boats?). Most, including Bavaria arranged a time to meet and all except Bavaria honoured the appointment (though conceivably this might have been down to luck, not careful scheduling!!). We stopped by a couple of others while we were there to see what they looked like e.g.Jenneau, maybe J? (can't remember).
Having had pretty positive experiences at a couple of the other stands we were a bit put out when the (seemingly well manned) Bavaria team waved us vaguely in the direction of the guy we'd arranged to meet (who was clearly busy discussing a more valuable deal with a more committed customer- fair enough!!) and then left us standing around on the stern of the boat: It was hot and uncomfortable, there were a few other people wandering over the boat, so nowhere to sit. After fifteen minutes or so of being ignored, we gave up & left them to it. I'll accept we were probably impatient and perhaps unreasonable... but we were considering spending well over £100K on a boat, which, I have to admit, is a lot of money to me. I can understand that the dealers might see this as small beer, and that's fair enough (I don't know their business model: maybe they make their profit on financing, not boats?) but I'd much rather deal with someone who at least pretends to want my business!
We were quite interested in the Bavaria, having already looked at a used one (too big for us) and with the design ticking many of the boxes in our requirements but wanted to talk to the dealer in a bit more depth, understand how the boat aligned to our likely usage, options, lead times for build, possible pre-owned alternatives etc.

@Bobc - curious as to why you think we shot ourselves in the foot? You could easily be right and I'd like to know why!

 

[Whaup367]

You are clearly part of the market they are aiming for.

Ah... maybe that's where we went wrong!

 

[Bobc]

@Bobc - curious as to why you think we shot ourselves in the foot? You could easily be right and I'd like to know why!

Simply because you passed up a very good value boat. The guys at Clipper are always busy because they have a very good product at a very attractive price. Could it be that the other dealers were happy to spend more time with you because they weren't as busy?

At the end of the day, you are happy with your choice, which is all that really matters.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I got myself on Bavaria’s email list a few years ago, they have emailed me once a month at least ever since. I guess everyone has off days, Bavaria, Spirit or whoever. We assumed with Spirit that our wallets had been weighed in the balance, and found wanting. Or maybe they just didn’t like the cut of my jib. It wasn’t because they were busy. Maybe they had a booked appointment coming up, a future no show-er.

 

[CrossedThreads]

I bought my boat from Clipper Marine. Excellent service and nothing but praise for Ben and the team. I guess we all have off days

 

[PhillM]

Slight draft but I have never managed to have a serious conversation with one of the big boat firms at a show. I think they see me wandering around on my own and think I am a tire kicker. I suppose I am right now, but in a few (short) years, I will have access to a reasonable cash sum and be planning setting off for a few years cruising. I am thinking now and will no doubt have made my mind up long before the purchase date. I've been part of show sales teams (different industry) and the one thing I know is that the show one tool in building a long term pipeline. Some people (and firms) don't get that.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Long term pipeline…. Mick Welsh was very nice to us at boat shows in the 90s. Now we have the boat he was selling.

 

[Arcady]

Long term pipeline…. Mick Welsh was very nice to us at boat shows in the 90s. Now we have the boat he was selling.

Yes. I remember writing to the local Beneteau agent when I was about ten years old. It must have been obvious to the sales team they were dealing with a child, but I got a decent reply, not condescending in any way, and all the info and prices I was hoping for. Partly because of that I remain favourably inclined towards Beneteau more than half a century later!

 

[johnalison]

I can’t remember being treated in an offhand manner at a boat show, in spite of sometimes visiting boat purely out of curiosity. On modest boats one could usually clamber around without engaging with the staff and larger boats often needed an appointment. I was certainly tyre-kicking when I went to Earls Court with my then six-year-old son and led the agents at the Westerly stand to think that I was seriously looking. In the end, they got the better of me as I was invited to a test sail which I couldn’t refuse and ended up buying our first cruiser. Much later it was the agent on the HR stand who invited us on board at Southampton even though HR was not on our list of boats of interest, but again, we were tempted by an offer we couldn’t refuse.

 

[Lightwave395]

We had a tour of the Oyster 595 at Southampton, friendly staff, they asked what we sailed during the initial conversation before the tour. We talked about my 33 year old Oyster, worth £30K if I'm lucky and their view was any Oyster was better than no Oyster...

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We had a tour of the Oyster 595 at Southampton, friendly staff, they asked what we sailed during the initial conversation before the tour. We talked about my 33 year old Oyster, worth £30K if I'm lucky and their view was any Oyster was better than no Oyster...

Well, clearly it is!