anchor light at swinging mooring?

[RichardS]

It appears that the UK is different to the Med or the Caribbbean where boats on a mooring nearly always leave their anchor light on when they go to the restaurant / bar for the evening and then keep it on all night once they return.

I've been quite a few places where anchored boats and moored boats are in close proximity and boats often arrive after dark gliding through the throng looking for an empty mooring or a large enough space to drop the hook. On a moonless night it would sound like a recipe for disaster if only the boats at anchor had a light on?

Richard

 

[l'escargot]

Well no, but so what? Your claim, in general, was that parked cars don't need to show lights.

No, my post specifically said it would be ridiculous to expect a car in a car park to display hazard lights. The onus is on moving vehicles to avoid vehicles parked in a designated parking area.

Likewise the onus is on moving boats to avoid moored boats in a designated mooring area - day or night.

 

[Ubergeekian]

No, my post specifically said it would be ridiculous to expect a car in a car park to display hazard lights. The onus is on moving vehicles to avoid vehicles parked in a designated parking area.

Nonetheless, there are perfectly legal parking areas where parked cars are obliged to show lights. Not hazard lights, not indicators, not headlights, but parking lights.

Likewise the onus is on moving boats to avoid moored boats in a designated mooring area - day or night.

What's a "designated mooring area"? Are they marked on any charts?

That aside, I agree, but see nothing wrong in helping the moving boats avoid where appropriate.

 

[Sybarite]

Just curious about your means to power it all winter; solar/wind gen back-up?

 

[l'escargot]

...What's a "designated mooring area"? Are they marked on any charts?...

They are - I am surprised you don't know that if you used to teach Day Skipper. Like this:

Interestingly it also says "Anchoring Prohibited" amongst the moorings which would suggest a clear distinction between anchoring and mooring.

 

[l'escargot]

...Nonetheless, there are perfectly legal parking areas where parked cars are obliged to show lights. Not hazard lights, not indicators, not headlights, but parking lights...

But not in car parks.

 

[l'escargot]

It appears that the UK is different to the Med or the Caribbbean where boats on a mooring nearly always leave their anchor light on when they go to the restaurant / bar for the evening and then keep it on all night once they return.

I've been quite a few places where anchored boats and moored boats are in close proximity and boats often arrive after dark gliding through the throng looking for an empty mooring or a large enough space to drop the hook. On a moonless night it would sound like a recipe for disaster if only the boats at anchor had a light on?

Richard

Generally in the UK moorings are marked on charts and boats are left there, mostly unoccupied, for significant periods - they are not for visitors. Quite often anchoring is prohibited amongst the moorings and they don't tend to be in areas where visitors would anchor anyway. What you describe would usually be referred to as a "visitor's buoy" over here and only available for short term occupation.

 

[Ubergeekian]

They are - I am surprised you don't know that if you used to teach Day Skipper. Like this:

Interestingly it also says "Anchoring Prohibited" amongst the moorings which would suggest a clear distinction between anchoring and mooring.

Could you point out the words "designated mooring area", please? I can't quite make them out.

 

[Ubergeekian]

But not in car parks.

Indeed. However, since this thread was about moorings beside busy river channels, the side-of-the-road analogy seemed reasonably appropriate. I wouldn't expect to see many anchor lights on in marinas.

 

[l'escargot]

Could you point out the words "designated mooring area", please? I can't quite make them out.

You're trying to wiggle with semantics now. It is an area designated for mooring small craft, sorry to point out the hole in your knowledge. I would have used inverted commas myself if I was quoting a specific title.

 

[l'escargot]

Indeed. However, since this thread was about moorings beside busy river channels, the side-of-the-road analogy seemed reasonably appropriate. I wouldn't expect to see many anchor lights on in marinas.

Or in designated mooring areas - for the same reason, there is no requirement for them to be shown.

 

[Ubergeekian]

You're trying to wiggle with semantics now. It is an area designated for mooring small craft, sorry to point out the hole in your knowledge.

Is it an area designated for small craft moorings or is it an area which has a lot of small craft moorings? There's quite a difference, you know. Is Portland Race designated for overfalls?

 

[l'escargot]

Is it an area designated for small craft moorings or is it an area which has a lot of small craft moorings? There's quite a difference, you know. Is Portland Race designated for overfalls?

No but if I had said there is an area of overfalls in Portland race, would you have been saying there wasn't because it only says "overfalls" and not "an area of overfalls" on the chart?

I don't think analogies are working very well for you tonight are they?

 

[Ubergeekian]

No but if I had said there is an area of overfalls in Portland race, would you have been saying there wasn't because it only says "overfalls" and not "an area of overfalls" on the chart?

No, that would be silly.

However, you have made the claim that "the onus is on moving boats to avoid moored boats in a designated mooring area". That isn't just an area of moorings (though I'd have thought that hitting moored boats anywhere was rather bad form) but a "designated" area.

I've just checked the VisitMyHarbour admiralty chart for Kames Bay, for example, and though it does say "Small Craft Moorings" it does so in a part of the bay where there is, to my certain knowledge, precisely one mooring - a Centaur which lives at the M of Moorings. In the area where I and my fellow Port Bannatyne Mooring Association members actually have our moorings ... not a word. It would seem, therefore, that we are not in a designated mooring area. Oo-er. Should I worry?

if you want to continue your claim that special rules apply in "designated mooring areas", I would greatly appreciate knowing how to tell which mooring areas have been designated, by whom they have been so designated, and where the special rules are written down.

 

[Swagman]

I'm beginning to see why you two have 13,000 posts between you.

Back to the OP, IMHO it makes perfect sense to illuminate the moored craft with an all round white lamp, just as it would be to hoist a black ball for daylight signalling.

JOHN

 

[l'escargot]

No, that would be silly.

However, you have made the claim that "the onus is on moving boats to avoid moored boats in a designated mooring area". That isn't just an area of moorings (though I'd have thought that hitting moored boats anywhere was bad form) but a designated area.

I've just checked the VisitMyHarbour admiralty chart for Kames Bay, for example, and though it does say "Small Craft Moorings" it does so in a part of the bay where there is, to my certain knowledge, precisely one mooring - a Centaur which lives at the M of Moorings. In the area where I and my fellow Port Bannatyne Mooring Association members actually have our moorings ... not a word. It would seem, therefore, that we are not in a designated mooring area. Oo-er. Should I worry?

if you want to continue your claim that special rules apply in "designated mooring areas", I would greatly appreciate knowing how to tell which mooring areas have been designated, by whom they have been so designated, and where the special rules are written down.

You're reading in a lot of things that aren't there to argue about tonight aren't you? If it is marked on a chart, as such it must be an area designated for moorings. I am not surprised many aren't charted, just as many anchorages aren't charted, especially those in out of the way places. .

Numerous "authorities" will designate areas for moorings but I suspect predominently Harbour Authorities and in some areas local clubs or landowners who have in some way acquired the right to lay or licence moorings - there are probably even out of the way places where I expect people lay moorings without authority or licence and I especially doubt whether these would be charted.
I haven't claimed any special rules, just pointed out that in a designated mooring area the onus is on the moving boat to avoid hitting the moored boat, not for the moored boat to avoid being hit - I don't think it would ever be accepted as a defence for hitting a moored boat, especially in charted moorings, to say the unattended boat wasn't displaying a light; although I have acknowledged there is no prohibition in displaying a light if you want to.

As to worrying about your own situation, I wouldn't unless it is close to frequent ship movements and uncharted although the fact that they are uncharted may be some mitigation if a ship didn't see the boats and hit them - I think I would move my mooring over to the O next to the Centaur just to be on the safe side though.

Bottom line is you don't have to have a light on your boat at night on a mooring and you don't need to leave your hazard lights on in a carpark - unless you particularly want to.

 

[alan_d]

I'm beginning to see why you two have 13,000 posts between you.

Ubergeekian and L'escargot are arguing from different premises, in that each is using "designated" to mean something different. "Designate" can mean either "appoint as" or "describe". Unless they can settle on an agreed meaning of the terms they are using their arguement will be unresolvable and pointless.

 

[LittleSister]

Ubergeekian and L'escargot are arguing from different premises, in that each is using "designated" to mean something different. "Designate" can mean either "appoint as" or "describe". Unless they can settle on an agreed meaning of the terms they are using their arguement will be unresolvable and pointless.

I agree with your narrow point, but Ubergeekian is right on the substantive issue, in that (a) charts sometimes give a general indication of the presence of moorings, in the way of general caution to the navigator, but they are rarely delineated and can never be relied upon to identify the presence or absence of vessels; and (b) there are no differences to the ColRegs obligations to avoid a collision inside and outside moorings areas (there may be local regulations specific to a particular harbour).

L'escargot says "in a designated mooring area the onus is on the moving boat to avoid hitting the moored boat, not for the moored boat to avoid being hit", but the same applies to a moored boat outside whatever he means by 'designated area', and the same applies to anchored boats either inside or outside such areas, except insofar as they are usually obliged to show a ball or light. (Incidentally, boats under 7m are not obliged to show anchor lights/shapes in some situations.)

On a different topic, I would take issue with an earlier poster who said something along the lines that moorings are in areas not usually used for anchoring. That is only because the presence of ground tackle (and possibly the availability of moorings to borrow) now deters anchoring. In fact most moorings are in areas which were once anchorages

 

[Seajet]

L'eascargot lost the plot re.'designated'; Portland Race has overfalls but they are not designated to operate in that area !

Anchorages marked on charts are more of a handy clue to people wishing to anchor than a warning to traffic, and one is generally free to anchor wherever one judges to suit.

The bottom line, as bleeding obvious about a million posts ago on the first page, is that in the situation mentioned common sense says a light is a good idea; it doesn't set up a force-field around the boat, it's simply a better than nothing, common sense good idea, in today's yuk-speak 'being pro-active'. Sheesh !

 

[Major Catastrophe]

This boat sits in the middle of the River Mersey all year round with no light and it is right next to a busy shipping channel.

We passed it late on Sunday evening, but we were keeping a good look out for it as we had engine trouble.