Securing to a chain pickup on a mooring

[ylop]

I find it odd that UK moorings are as you describe, chain attached to the seabed (big concrete block or...) and chain rising to floating buoy. Pennant attached to buoy - often also connected to chain.

It is interesting that mooring design - both in terms of below the waterline and the fastening to the vessel is so different worldwide. Perhaps its the density of boats we try and pack in an area or the ability of helmsmen to chew up a mooring with their prop (or damage it and not say) that affects the decision. It does make googling for solutions tricky though - as loads of the information is irrelevant.

 

[dunedin]

Unfortunately I don't think a second bow roller would resolve the anchor issue. On most boats the width of the anchor means it can still get caught in the mooring if bouncing around a bit.
Fine if on board but to me not safe on a permanent mooring.
Indeed this issue of anchor interference and difficulty in removing the anchor means we only use moorings when on board - where we use two ropes up through extra fairlead close to the bow on each side.
I did create a block and tackle using old dinghy kicking strap system to lift anchor off, but still too much phaff and finger trapping on our boat.

 

[ylop]

I've seen boats which have wound up their moorings.
It puts a lot of load on things and I think it accelerates wear.

Ah OK so its bad, and should definitely be avoided but not sink me first time it happens bad.
I do vaguely know someone overlooking the mooring (who is a sailor) so I suspect if there was something obvious wrong he'd contact me but its not like a boatyard where you might expect them to.

 

[ylop]

Unfortunately I don't think a second bow roller would resolve the anchor issue. On most boats the width of the anchor means it can still get caught in the mooring if bouncing around a bit.
Fine if on board but to me not safe on a permanent mooring.
Indeed this issue of anchor interference and difficulty in removing the anchor means we only use moorings when on board - where we use two ropes up through extra fairlead close yo hhe bow on each side.
I did create a block and tackle using old dinghy kicking strap system to lift anchor off, but still too much phaff and finger trapping on our boat.

Whilst I'd rather you'd got a magic solution at least reassuring that I'm not imagining the inconvenience.

 

[dunedin]

Is the chain to the buoy an essential for your chosen location? Would two heavy duty (eg thick polysteel) ropes be acceptable to insurers? Fitting extra heavy duty fairleads close to the bow should be doable, and much better than direct to cleats further back often fitted to modern boats designed for marinas.

 

[vyv_cox]

Our mooring on Menai Strait comprised two heavy anchors, laid up and down stream, with 1 inch ground chain between. A swivel.was attached at the centre of this with a 3/4 inch riser chain to a large buoy. The 1/2 inch pickup chain attached beneath the buoy. The boat rotated innumerable times, not just four times per day on the tide but many times due to variable wind. Despite that the swivel always worked and the riser never blocked up.

 

[ylop]

Is the chain to the buoy an essential for your chosen location? Would two heavy duty (eg thick polysteel) ropes be acceptable to insurers? Fitting extra heavy duty fairleads close to the bow should be doable, and much better than direct to cleats further back often fitted to modern boats designed for marinas.

I don't think the insurers would object... the question is whether its a good idea given the horror stories about chaff.

 

[awol]

Rope or chain? My mooring contractor likes octoplait protected by plastic tube over the bow roller - no real problems but very occasionally the pickup and pennant wind round the riser and it can take a hefty pull to rotate the buoy to return to normal service. Up north another contractor likes chain and a friend often has difficulty with it and the pick-up winding round the riser with a further complication of the nylon rope that he uses to take the load with the chain, slack, as back-up. It can take a while to unfankle that on return after a cruise but it does discourage poachers!
My advice would be to take your contractors advice and see what others do.

 

[Graham376]

As an 'absentee' mooring holder, you need stuff that can't go wrong.
All chain.
Welded shackles.
The mooring comes first, the anchor will have to accommodate that.

Also a boat moored for 3 weeks sees a lot of tides turn.
Which takes us into worrying about swivels.
If there boat starts to 'wind up' the mooring, is there anyone keeping an eye who will take action?
Some boats turn the same way, clockwise or anticlockwise, twice a day. Some only do that with certain wind directions.

You seem to have a lot of worries. I've had moorings for 30 years and never found the need to weld shackles or use all chain. The one we've had for the last 17 years comprises concrete block, 19mm chain, swivel, octoplait polysteel riser. Twin 24mm polysteel strops go over bow rollers with anchor on deck and never had a problem with them winding or chafing, unlike nylon used in the past. Because the strops float and have to be long to reach deck cleats, I hang a weight roughly half way along to sink most of them when we leave the mooring so the pickup buoy is only a couple of feet from the buoy. Happy to leave the boat unattended for roughly 3 months between long visits.

 

[TSB240]

Our pickup chain on Menai Strait was always 1/2 inch galvanised chain. I shackled a loop on the end, dropped this over the cleat and OXOed the pickup line over it.

I never found the necessity for any elasticity in the form of a snubber. The riser chain in deep water was heavy enough that it never pulled straight beneath the buoy, so catenary was always enough to take up snatch

Vyv most of the Menai moorings(CHT) are now using poly steel rope risers. I believe this was done to reduce the dangers of unoccupied submerged hippo buoys on spring tides being pulled under by the weight of chain risers. This now creates a problem if you use a chain from the top as without the weight of the chain riser the hippos capsize!
Most moorings are now fitted with twin chafe protected polysteel strops.
I will probably fit in addition a removable hose covered chain as a back up if leaving the boat for longer than a few days or if we have another summer storm forecast!
Once bitten twice shy.
I suspect the lack of heavy chain riser had an impact on the forces that caused my twin nylon lines to part during storm Noah April last year despite rigging snubbers back to my cockpit winches.

 

[B27]

You seem to have a lot of worries. I've had moorings for 30 years and never found the need to weld shackles or use all chain. The one we've had for the last 17 years comprises concrete block, 19mm chain, swivel, octoplait polysteel riser. Twin 24mm polysteel strops go over bow rollers with anchor on deck and never had a problem with them winding or chafing, unlike nylon used in the past. Because the strops float and have to be long to reach deck cleats, I hang a weight roughly half way along to sink most of them when we leave the mooring so the pickup buoy is only a couple of feet from the buoy. Happy to leave the boat unattended for roughly 3 months between long visits.

I've seen that kind of thing chafe through.
When there's any fetch in the harbour, you can get constant movement where the ropes rub on the back of the roller steel work.
You've got over a metre of rope under tension, that's enough for it to be constantly stretching and easing.

I don't think insurance companies would look kindly on leaving a boat un-monitored on a mooring for months on end.

You think things are fine, then you get a month of wind from 'not the usual direction'.

Mooring sites vary a lot. The prime spots are sheltered from 360 degrees, others have to make do with places where you've got potential for exposure to Northerlies funnelling down the river or whatever.
The motion of different boats on different moorings is also something to ponder.

 

[Graham376]

I've seen that kind of thing chafe through.
When there's any fetch in the harbour, you can get constant movement where the ropes rub on the back of the roller steel work.
You've got over a metre of rope under tension, that's enough for it to be constantly stretching and easing.

I don't think insurance companies would look kindly on leaving a boat un-monitored on a mooring for months on end.

You think things are fine, then you get a month of wind from 'not the usual direction'.

Mooring sites vary a lot. The prime spots are sheltered from 360 degrees, others have to make do with places where you've got potential for exposure to Northerlies funnelling down the river or whatever.
The motion of different boats on different moorings is also something to ponder.

Unlike nylon, polysteel doesn't stretch and lasts far longer. The strops in the photo are now 3 years old and still good for at least one more.

Why do you assume no-one monitors the boat when we're not there?

As far as winds are concerned, the highest I know about on the moorings was 85 kts, which lifted part of the airport roof. I've not experienced more than around 60 kts when aboard and a few years ago, we had a couple of tornados which just missed the moorings and passed either side of the boatyard.

 

[Neeves]

I mentioned attaching 2 strops to the horn cleats, one each, thus forming a bridle. I had assumed you would check whether the horn cleats and the deck reinforcing underneath (or within) the deck were man enough. I had further assumed you would find a way to reduce abrasion, hose pipe works well.

How you attach the bridle, you can join the 2 parts to make one pennant, to the buoy/chain depends on the arrangement at the top of the chain/buoy interface. I don't know what the interface is like and hesitate to comment - maybe if you could take a picture...?

One suggestion made earlier - take your bridle to the deck, port and starboard and attach to 2 snubbers that run down the side decks - make the snubbers to the correct size with spliced eyes at the end and attach to sheet winches (which might be the strongest securement devices on your yacht). You can use the same snubbers when you anchor. You can neaten up the snubbers by 'attaching' to the stanchions. If you like this idea - I can offer some pictures.

To secure the shackle pin, if you use a shackle, I would not rely on mousing wire (alone). The ideal is welding the shackle pin but you could peen the pin, secure with Loctite (red - but you will need a blow torch to disengage the red). I would not rely on mousing wire nor cable ties - wire corrodes and cable ties age with UV - but you could use dyneema. I prefer belt and braces, Loctite and dyneema. A swivel, 1", instead of a shackle, might work well.

If you are doing most of this yourself you need to find a retailer to the lifting industry and they will have big shackles and swivels. They are usually quite cheap. They will usually not be galvanised as galvanising soon wears off. You need size, volume of steel - to combat both abrasion and corrosion. So think 1".

You have had lots of ideas posted here - I might suggest - take on board what you think might work, summarise and post and the members will be happy to support or make minor adjustments.

Then when you actually put it all together - you can take some pictures.

Jonathan

 

[vyv_cox]

Vyv most of the Menai moorings(CHT) are now using poly steel rope risers. I believe this was done to reduce the dangers of unoccupied submerged hippo buoys on spring tides being pulled under by the weight of chain risers. This now creates a problem if you use a chain from the top as without the weight of the chain riser the hippos capsize!
Most moorings are now fitted with twin chafe protected polysteel strops.
I will probably fit in addition a removable hose covered chain as a back up if leaving the boat for longer than a few days or if we have another summer storm forecast!
Once bitten twice shy.
I suspect the lack of heavy chain riser had an impact on the forces that caused my twin nylon lines to part during storm Noah April last year despite rigging snubbers back to my cockpit winches.

I accept that my experience with moorings on the Strait is now close to prehistoric! I managed to obtain some 3 inch fire hose to protect my bow from the pickup chain, which did the job but proved to be an excellent breeding ground for a wide variety of creatures.

 

[Rhylsailer99]

Where I moor on a swinging mooring, a lot use a 10mm nylon stretchy rope and make the rope so that the when the chain snatches hard the rope kicks in just before the jolt to give it some relief from the jolt.