90 in 180 limit from 1st January.

Refueler

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Forgive an ignorant question: are you not out of EU waters at any point between the UK and the Canaries? Or even if you are, do you have to be in non-EU national waters, and not just international one, to reset the clock?

To get around customs / immigration rules on ships ... just sail outside territorial waters - make a log entry backed up by data archive ........... bobs the proverbial.
 

Kelpie

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Is 90 days really an unreasonable limit for visa-free travel?
If so why do you think it's been reasonable for the EU to treat other travelers this way up to now?

I think the world would be a better place if we could all go and spend time in different countries with few restrictions. I sort of understand that countries may wish to protect their jobs, public services, land and business ownership, etc etc, but why object just to someone being in a country?

The Sailing Uma videos about applying for a Schengen visa were an eye opener. She is Haitian, and after a considerable amount of time and hassle she was eventually rewarded with a visa for... 90 days. A totally pointless exercise because she was entitled to that length of time anyway, apparently. How much money do our governments waste administering these pointless programs? And what possible harm can she be doing, living on a boat, spending a bit of money in the local shops and marina.

So yes I think a 90 day limit on people who are just travelling is not reasonable, because I don't see any justification for it.
 

Seven Spades

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And if you don't broadcast AIS, so then what?
Well you will have to get your passport stamped in and out every time you enter a Schengen area.

So the only work around is to have a professional crew log. Then you are unrestricted in terms of time, it is expensive and you are not allowed more than X miles from the boat. This is how spueryacht crew are allowed to work continuously in the EU.
 

Refueler

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There may be a solution that the British Government could implement. Many years ago my late father had business dealings in Taiwan and China, but as they are technically still at war, he had to have 2 passports. Only needed to remember which one to use where and everyone was happy. This could also be a possible solution that you use one passport for 90 days and then check out at a designated port. Then sail to another designated port and use the other passport. The ETIAS system will be logging a person, not a yacht. As long as the passport numbers are different, then it should work.

Excerpt if any port is like here in Latvia - the Inward / Outward Document you fill in states Boat Name . Car Reg'n etc. etc.
 

Graham376

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Would the residency lapse if you are out of the country for x days/months???

Even if it's feasible at the moment, will it be feasible after dec 31st? The fact that the paper reported you need to apply for your residency before end of March would indicate it may not be.

On another note, does the schengen agreement apply to residents of the eu or citizens of the eu member states? If the latter then it won't really help after all, as residency is not citizenship.

No, residence doesn't lapse but, can't be converted to permanent unless proof that you've been resident for the 5 years.

As things stand now the right of residence will lapse for Brits when we exit as we will no longer be EU citizens entitled to be there. Unless there's a deal, we'll be treated like any non EU citizen and I haven't a clue how/if they can obtain residence.

As far as Schengen is concerned, there are conflicting reports about whether we as residents (not citizens) will have freedom of movement. I wondered what would happen if for instance I drove from UK via France and Spain to Portugal, stayed six months and then drove back to France where I would have appeared to overstayed my welcome. I emailed Euro Direct to ask. This is their reply -

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply.

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.
 

JumbleDuck

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Is 90 days really an unreasonable limit for visa-free travel?
If so why do you think it's been reasonable for the EU to treat other travelers this way up to now?
Isn't 90/180 the limit for a tourist visa to Schengen? As far as I can see, getting any longer than that is extremely difficult.
 

Refueler

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That doesn't work. I have two passports (I have had 3 at one point), all UK for clarity, used for visa applications while travelling. The passport numbers are linked in the UK systems, the EU system and the USA system. I know this because I travel extensively for work and have been questioned about country visits at customs. In the USA I was questioned about MENA countries and Russia and which were not only on second passport but also on expired passports. I then stated to the official that I have a second passport (as it did not show on my passport that I had travelled with). The official confirmed that he knew this and it showed on his display, I guess he was checking how truthful I was about journey history. I assume that there has been a lot of joined up cooperation for years now, especially since Epassports were introduced.

You've been very unlucky then ...

I have two, three previously, passports. Because I travel to various that would be a problem if stamp was seen in another country etc. NEVER have I been stopped / questioned or any indication they knew of my 'other' passport. That includes USA.
In my old '3rd' passport - I had a Penalty Arrest Notice stamped in it from Washington Immigration after flying in with an invalid ESTA. Next flight in - I used my other passport and they never said anything ... Couple of flights in later - I made mistake of giving that 'stamped' passport ... immediately it flagged in computer and I was told not accepted (it was not electronically readable) .. before I was carted away - I produced one of my others ... raised eyebrows ... and in I went. They did not have connection of the two to same person, despite the computer.
As to EU - I know from personal experience and only recently had to change which Passport was registered against my Latvian Residency (when previous expired) - they did NOT have any record on the EU database of my second UK passport. In fact they were surprised when I put on the desk as they expected me to say I would be applying to renew the old. That was February this year.

About 6 years ago when my "3rd" passport expired - I was abroad ... and I had a call from the wife. Latvian Police had visited my house and informed her that because my UK passport had expired - that they would detain me on return to Latvia to assess my residence. She told them I had a 'new' passport (actually 2 others) and they said they would make note and decide on my return.
I flew in ... was stopped at the desk in airport .. quizzed ... showed one of my other passports .. they remarked about its issue date ... and advised I should go asap to the local Passport office in home town and get the passport number changed there.

As with Driving Licences and offences / points - the EU is not so wide spread info as people think - Passport Office when I asked them why they didn't know about my second PP - said clearly that cross border data was not complete in EU literally on anything !!
 

Refueler

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No, residence doesn't lapse but, can't be converted to permanent unless proof that you've been resident for the 5 years.

As things stand now the right of residence will lapse for Brits when we exit as we will no longer be EU citizens entitled to be there. Unless there's a deal, we'll be treated like any non EU citizen and I haven't a clue how/if they can obtain residence.

As far as Schengen is concerned, there are conflicting reports about whether we as residents (not citizens) will have freedom of movement. I wondered what would happen if for instance I drove from UK via France and Spain to Portugal, stayed six months and then drove back to France where I would have appeared to overstayed my welcome. I emailed Euro Direct to ask. This is their reply -

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply.

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.



Not this old chestnut again ...

Wasn't long ago - I was called an idiot for saying residence in EU gives you travel access across EU and can stay longer than the 90 in another state.
But that is the case and was finally confirmed by others - even though I had cut and pasted the relevant EU passage.

I have Residence (Permanent) in Latvia and this gives me rights to travel and stay in any EU state as necessary. To work - that is subject to that states rules - but as I was informed - there should be no problem. This despite me being a UK Passport holder and will still continue after UK actually departs Dec 2020.
 

Refueler

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CA ... as HLR for Western Latvia ... I have rec'd a request from CA to see if I can approach any Govt or other Official in my Region to present case for supporting extended stay for yachting .....
This has as I understand gone out to all HLR's in EU ...
 

RobbieW

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Is 90 days really an unreasonable limit for visa-free travel?
If so why do you think it's been reasonable for the EU to treat other travelers this way up to now?
Depends what your objective is, for those of us who are/were cruising the med in multiple EU countries 90 days is a severe limitation. Those who are mainly liveaboard would spend 5-8 months cruising, then may stay with the boat in a marina or may lay the boat up and travel back to the UK for the winter
 

lw395

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Depends what your objective is, for those of us who are/were cruising the med in multiple EU countries 90 days is a severe limitation. Those who are mainly liveaboard would spend 5-8 months cruising, then may stay with the boat in a marina or may lay the boat up and travel back to the UK for the winter
I don't recall fans of the EU complaining very much about treating people from the rest of the world this way.
 

Iliade

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It wasn't taken away. 'The people' voted to throw it away to show their contempt for the government...


If ever there was an argument for qualification to vote, this was a good one.


But on the bright side, Spain was always pretty accepting of our criminal classes as long term residents. Maybe if you stay there without leave you will be considered a criminal and given a large villa on the south coast and a red nose & beer belly?
 

st599

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If we do go out without a deal, presumably that will also mean no deal on Visas.

Schengen visas are single entry until you've built up trust, so leaving an re-entering wouldn't be an option.
 

Seven Spades

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Right my son is home and he says that on the super yachts, the Aussie and Southern Crew arrive in a country with a Schen Visa as soon as they arrive in port the go to the port police or equiv. and asked to be stamped out of the Schengen area and on to the boat. This technically means you have moved into the country of the vessels flag. The bad news is that you are not allowed ashore more than 5 miles from the boat. Crucially though you are not affected by any time limit.

Some times you need to use an agent, in Italy the fee can be quite high.
 

Laminar Flow

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It has been taken away from those who valued it. I certainly didn't vote for it.
'Tis the trouble in a democracy, not voting, the absence of civil engagement and quite frankly the lack of education or the ability to think through one's actions and realize the consequences thereof.
 

nortada

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Nortada is more up to date on what's happening in Lagos so may comment but, as I understand it, people are reporting residence received within a few days of applying, maybe only after a week or so of arrival, there's no 3 months wait. The 3 months is the maximum time (under the not enforced law) one can be in country without registering presence.

Correct.

As of 2 days ago, in Lagos, complete the 4 page application (which is in Portugal and English), go to the local council office and in under 30 minutes you will leave €15 per person lighter but with 5 years residency.

Irony, since lock-down in Portugal, British passport holding yachties, with Portuguese residency have had greater freedom of movement to sail and anchor out overnight than EU members who do not have Portuguese residency. As one very good German friend ruefully said on the way to get their Portuguese residency , "You English (they don't recognise the Celtic Fringe out here ;) ) have done it again. you leave the EU, continue to enjoy the benefits and we Germans continue to play - nice one Tommy!"

On their return from the council offices, to celebrate us now all being Portuguese residents, we drank a toast in Macieira and then proceeded to down a few canecas.

As is often the case, Graham376 is way ahead of me on the bigger picture so his #85 is a definitive answer - now what was the question. :unsure:

Those interested in the Portuguese residencia thing may find:- How To Become A Portuguese Resident & Keep Your British Passport - All You Need To Know About Registering & Residency enlightening.

Back to thread, there is little point in we UK passport holders with Portuguese residency signing this petition.
 
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syvictoria

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'Tis the trouble in a democracy, not voting, the absence of civil engagement and quite frankly the lack of education or the ability to think through one's actions and realize the consequences thereof.

Just to be clear, I did (and always do) vote - I just wasn't on the winning side!
 

Graham376

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As is often the case, Graham376 is way ahead of me on the bigger picture so his #85 is a definitive answer - now what was the question. :unsure:

Thanks but there's lots I don't know and get confused by conflicting information so, try to contact authorities for answer. Typical case is some information in the January 2019 document you quote above -

In light of Brexit, the British Ambassador to Portugal has been attending a series of 'surgeries' around the country talking to British overseas residents about the possible outcomes of the UK leaving the EU. She stressed that all British citizens should make sure that their authorizations for residency, passports and other documentation is up to date and in order. Residents will retain their current EU rights in their host country, but under the latest 'Withdrawal Agreement', they will lose the right of free movement, including travel within the Schengen area for longer than 90 days in every 180.

This is the opposite of what Europe Direct were told by Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST) in March 2020 - Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area .

Your guess is good as mine as to who is correct.:cautious:
 
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