90 in 180 limit from 1st January.

[Greemble]

And if you don't broadcast AIS, so then what?

Not had a passport?
They're little books that get date stamped when you arrive and than date stamped when you leave.

Really clever people can work out how long you've been staying by comparing they two dates

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Not had a passport?
They're little books that get date stamped when you arrive and than date stamped when you leave.

Really clever people can work out how long you've been staying by comparing they two dates

Some people seem very eager to be repressed, tracked and traced and monitered as if we were in a socialist paradise like N. Korea.
I think it is a manifestation of chronic Brexit Derangement Syndrome, as butthurt remoaners relentlessly seek justification for their traitorous standpoint.

 

[RobbieW]

Ah, thanks. Does the clock not stop, then, across Biscay or heading out to the Canaries?

It might, I don't think we know. If it does you'd need to find ports of entry to check in and out of Schengen. Overall it might gain 8 days, you could cross Biscay direct from the UK so not start the clock till checking in at A Corunna. That's the other thing to consider that entry and departure are port of entry jobs with papers to be checked.

 

[nortada]

Signed. Seems like a no brainer.
If we revert to 90 in 180, this will directly affect my plans for an Atlantic circuit next year- I'll have 90 days between crossing Biscay and leaving the Canaries, which leaves me with trying to juggle a late Biscay crossing or an early Transat, neither of which is ideal for safety.
Of course in an ideal world I would like to take as long as I need, including staying in Europe for a year. But that option looks like it's gone.

“Looks like it’s gone”

Not if you register for temporary (5 years) Portuguese residency.

As a Portuguese resident you would not be subject to Schengen and the 90/180 rule.

This might just help:-

How To Become A Portuguese Resident & Keep Your British Passport - All You Need To Know About Registering & Residency

 

[nortada]

So will there be a Gestapo-style Eurodatabase tracking the exact movements of hundreds of thousands of itinerant cruising yachts? Because there isn't anything like that in existence at the moment, different bits of Norway can't even communicate between themselves, same goes for Spain.
I agree with the petition, (signed) but surely in practice the huge infrastructure needed to track, log, analyse, hunt and arrest all of us miscreants staying a day over 90/180 would be so gigantic, that the risk of boarding and fining by jackbooted guards will surely be minimal?
Personally I don't give a monkey's about rules and regulations, but I can fully appreciate that some yachts can't take risks, especially if you've got kids on board etc.
Let's not get too gloomy about this bureaucracy. As Churchill said:
"When heads roll in Europe, a football rolls in London"..
(Well he didn't actually, I made it up, but you get my gist..)

Think you may find the EU is setting up a Schengen database for just this purpose.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Ah, thanks. Does the clock not stop, then, across Biscay or heading out to the Canaries?

Yes it does stop when you depart through customs at an official exit point, otherwise it continues to count from the entry time. Obviously the passport needs to be logged at the entry port for the counting to start. If you entered at A Coruña and sailed down the coast to Lisbon all those days would count. If you departed A Coruña and checked out of the country and sailed offshore to the Canaries, then the count stops when you depart. It starts again when you check in to the Canaries.

The information is from the Cruising Association RATS section. You have to be a member to access the data. Day in EU calculator link below : -

Short-stay Visa Calculator - Migration and Home Affairs - European Commission

Based on existing rules and if the UK leaves without a deal, the following may be in place, post Brexit: -

1. Form C1331 must be completed and lodged with HMRC prior to departure.
2. Fly Q flag
3. Register arrival in the EU via port authorities at a designated port of Entry.
4. It is anticipated that as from 2020 reporting of voyages via ETIAS will probably be required.
5. Entry will likely be recorded in ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorization System). Which is a tracking system for those who do not need a visa to enter the Schengen Zone.

According tot he CA, if there is a no deal, the EU have said that they will apply full 3rd country immigration rules.
rules. I think the main issues are visa or no visa. The majority will probably get away with 90 day limit.

One area that will complicate life for some is those who seek not to pay taxes in the UK but are resident in the UK and earn their salaries abroad. For example, a rig worker gets paid abroad and works 28 days on, 28 days off. It is advantageous if they can travel to the EU and show that they were out of the UK such that the days in UK tax threshold is not reached. Technically, holidays out of the UK don't count but it is one of these areas that the definition gets stretched when making a tax return. I think they will now be stuffed as it was a low cost option not to pay UK tax.

 

[steve yates]

Some people seem very eager to be repressed, tracked and traced and monitered as if we were in a socialist paradise like N. Korea.
I think it is a manifestation of chronic Brexit Derangement Syndrome, as butthurt remoaners relentlessly seek justification for their traitorous standpoint.

Ohlin, I can't decide if you are on a monumental wind up, or whether you really are a copper bottomed twat.

 

[steve yates]

“Looks like it’s gone”

Not if you register for temporary (5 years) Portuguese residency.

As a Portuguese resident you would not be subject to Schengen and the 90/180 rule.

This might just help:-

How To Become A Portuguese Resident & Keep Your British Passport - All You Need To Know About Registering & Residency

Or sure how that helps for sailingaround Europe unless you were already living in Portugal, plus, if you were there, you had to apply by March 31st, so too late now.

 

[Graham376]

Or sure how that helps for sailingaround Europe unless you were already living in Portugal, plus, if you were there, you had to apply by March 31st, so too late now.

Not sure what you're saying. AFAIK, people are still able to apply for 5 years residence, in fact it's a legal requirement if there >3 months. (they don't usually bother if you don't register) According to EU, residence in any EU State allows free travel within Schengen without 90/180 rule.

 

[steve yates]

Not sure what you're saying. AFAIK, people are still able to apply for 5 years residence, in fact it's a legal requirement if there >3 months. (they don't usually bother if you don't register) According to EU, residence in any EU State allows free travel within Schengen without 90/180 rule.

From the article "No expats living here and unregistered with the authorities should leave it until after the March 29 deadline to try and regularise their situation, but even if they do, the leaflet explains that they will still have until the end of the transition period – December 31, 2020 – before encountering any kind of difficulty in remaining on Portuguese soil. " implies that you may be too late to apply, but nothing will change until the 31st december.

And as for the first part of my post, if you were staying in portugal or living there before 29th march, then sure it's a great idea. If you are a uk sailor wanting to cruise europe and the med, then its of no use. One would have had to sail to portugal before lockdown and remain there for 3 months or more to apply, so it doesnt help get round the 90/180 for the vast majority of uk sailors. Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Graham376]

If you are a uk sailor wanting to cruise europe and the med, then its of no use. One would have had to sail to portugal before lockdown and remain there for 3 months or more to apply, so it doesnt help get round the 90/180 for the vast majority of uk sailors. Unless I'm missing something?

Nortada is more up to date on what's happening in Lagos so may comment but, as I understand it, people are reporting residence received within a few days of applying, maybe only after a week or so of arrival, there's no 3 months wait. The 3 months is the maximum time (under the not enforced law) one can be in country without registering presence.

 

[Concerto]

There may be a solution that the British Government could implement. Many years ago my late father had business dealings in Taiwan and China, but as they are technically still at war, he had to have 2 passports. Only needed to remember which one to use where and everyone was happy. This could also be a possible solution that you use one passport for 90 days and then check out at a designated port. Then sail to another designated port and use the other passport. The ETIAS system will be logging a person, not a yacht. As long as the passport numbers are different, then it should work.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

There may be a solution that the British Government could implement. Many years ago my late father had business dealings in Taiwan and China, but as they are technically still at war, he had to have 2 passports. Only needed to remember which one to use where and everyone was happy. This could also be a possible solution that you use one passport for 90 days and then check out at a designated port. Then sail to another designated port and use the other passport. The ETIAS system will be logging a person, not a yacht. As long as the passport numbers are different, then it should work.

That doesn't work. I have two passports (I have had 3 at one point), all UK for clarity, used for visa applications while travelling. The passport numbers are linked in the UK systems, the EU system and the USA system. I know this because I travel extensively for work and have been questioned about country visits at customs. In the USA I was questioned about MENA countries and Russia and which were not only on second passport but also on expired passports. I then stated to the official that I have a second passport (as it did not show on my passport that I had travelled with). The official confirmed that he knew this and it showed on his display, I guess he was checking how truthful I was about journey history. I assume that there has been a lot of joined up cooperation for years now, especially since Epassports were introduced.

 

[steve yates]

Nortada is more up to date on what's happening in Lagos so may comment but, as I understand it, people are reporting residence received within a few days of applying, maybe only after a week or so of arrival, there's no 3 months wait. The 3 months is the maximum time (under the not enforced law) one can be in country without registering presence.

Ok, if thats correct then thats what I was missing.

Although it seems a bit farfetched to think that we will be allowed to sail into a portoguese marina, stay a few days, apply for residency, be accepted and then head off to the rest of the med with full schengen rights??? Would the residency lapse if you are out of the country for x days/months???
Even if it's feasible at the moment, will it be feasible after dec 31st? The fact that the paper reported you need to apply for your residency before end of March would indicate it may not be.

I do hope I am wrong and that this is possible loophole solution, but I'm not hopeful it will be from next year onwards.

On another note, does the schengen agreement apply to residents of the eu or citizens of the eu member states? If the latter then it won't really help after all, as residency is not citizenship.

 

[RobbieW]

...sail into a portoguese marina, stay a few days, apply for residency, be accepted and then head off to the rest of the med with full schengen rights???...

When this was being discussed a year or so ago, residency in a Schengen country only allowed the resident to stay in that country without limits. You'd still be travelling with Brit papers thus 90 in 180 would apply elsewhere

 

[lw395]

Is 90 days really an unreasonable limit for visa-free travel?
If so why do you think it's been reasonable for the EU to treat other travelers this way up to now?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

W**** was 19 (20 now) , sorry to quench your fantasies..

Not my fantasies, they appear to be the fantasies of your crew member which you seem to think fit to broadcast on an internet forum. Why he feels the need to keep knickers under his pillow is beyond me - does he steal from washing lines too?

Perhaps you should put a bit of bromide in his tea.

 

[syvictoria]

Is 90 days really an unreasonable limit for visa-free travel?
If so why do you think it's been reasonable for the EU to treat other travelers this way up to now?

I'm not sure that it's necessarily about being 'reasonable' in this particular instance. Some people have planned for years and made numerous life choices on the basis of a freedom which has now been taken away.

 

[25931]

.
I won't be signing because it is all bollocks, a change.org petition with over 7 million signatures didn't get a consideration from Westminster and the EU aren't interested either. Brexit is a religion, not a rational series of choices.

I intend to try to get Portuguese residency before the end of the year - seems the most likely way ot be able to avoid the 90/180 rule, as I can't get an Irish passport.

As for Mr. Pressurewasher's intention to ignore the law - well, I've seen people who tried to leave a Canarian harbour without permission chased and towed back by the coastguard, so good luck with that. The Spanish are pretty laid back until you try to mess with them, then they are a lot more efficient than the Brits.

- W

If as you say Brexit is a religion why was there all that fuss when the EU tolerates all religions ?
Why should we welcome you as a resident if the Irish don't want you ? Surely as good Europeans we should stick together ?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Some people seem very eager to be repressed, tracked and traced and monitered as if we were in a socialist paradise like N. Korea.
I think it is a manifestation of chronic Brexit Derangement Syndrome, as butthurt remoaners relentlessly seek justification for their traitorous standpoint.

Sounds like you're desperate to rebel ..... do you know what you want to rebel against or why? or is it just your "general attitude to life"?

Given that attitude, it seems a bit odd that you want to give up free travel in europe where you are not monitored and nobody cares, to instead be confined to an island and subject to EU imposed work/travel restrictions.