Yacht abandoned on our mooring

[Romeo]

There has been no trespass, which is a matter associated with land. An inventive lawyer could argue that there has been theft, since you have been prevented from using your mooring, although not if you are saying it is not yet your mooring.

Do some folk just have too much cash? How can you possibly spend 8 grand on something and then just abandon it?? When are you intending to put your own boat out there? I would pin a notice to the mast and the hatch saying that the boat will be moved if it is not away by a certain date, and that the costs of removal and storage will be charged to the owner. Then see if you can persuade a local boatyard to do the removal at their risk.

 

[Poignard]

How many times does it have to be repeated? The OP has been ripped-off by the man who sold him an occupied mooring. The OP should get the seller to clear the mooring or else refund the purchase price plus any reasonable costs. If the OP takes it upon himself to get the squatter off the mooring that amounts to a tacit acceptance of the situation.

Suppose, for example, the OP were to move the offending boat himself and then its owner turns up with something proving his title to the mooring? The whole thing could turn into a legal nightmare.

My advice is to get the money back and find another mooring.

 

[agurney]

You could lay another mooring nearby with light tackle, transfer the tag then let the Crown Estates know there's a boat on an unlicensed mooring and let them sort it out.

 

[Railbob]

The yacht is trespassing on our mooring and in Scotland trespass can be a criminal offence, all that has been done is the matter has been reported and recorded to the Police in the event of the owner refusing to move his boat. As the owner cannot be traced we are covering our backs.

A more relevant charge would be "Clandestine Possession" basically using someone else's property without their permission even if you intend to return the property. Good old Scots common law but rarely used.

 

[jac]

As others have said, pursue the person who sold you the mooring and get another till it's sorted BY THEM.

I think the only way to get rid of the boat legally is via a writ to arrest the boat due to unpaid mooring fees on your mooring that they are borrowing without permission. Once that is granted you may be able to sell the boat to cover your costs but it's a hell of a lot of work.

Don't do anything dodgy such as moving it as you have a duty of care to ensure it remains safe. Owner may be a decent chap in hospital and know nothing of the problems. Do you really want to end up on the wrong side of a legal fight if you get a bit careless and damage someone else's possession.

 

[RichardTaylor]

Can you not place a legal notice (on the vessel and in newspapers etc) giving x days to remove the vessel after which date the vessel will be sold by auction on Ebay (starting price 99p). The end sale price funds less expenses you offer to the owner if he turns up within x years?

 

[Spyro]

Can you not place a legal notice (on the vessel and in newspapers etc) giving x days to remove the vessel after which date the vessel will be sold by auction on Ebay (starting price 99p). The end sale price funds less expenses you offer to the owner if he turns up within x years?

It's not his to sell "legal notice" or not.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's not his to sell "legal notice" or not.

It can be, if he jumps very carefully through the right legal hoops. The RYA legal department regularly gives advice on these things, I gather, and I presume that they have someone who does Scottish law.

However, I agree completely with those who say that the OP should be talking to whoever "sold" him the mooring. If someone purported to sell my mooring I'd be a little miffed if the purchaser decided to sell my boat for 99p.

 

[TeamSpirit]

It remains the responsibility of the seller of the mooring to remove the vessel, if when served 'reasonable' notice in writing (suggest Solicitors letter) and makes no effort to resolve within a reasonable time (4 wks)then claim ALL money back from the seller..... PLUS your reasonable costs associated with the efforts you have made to resolve this matter.
The seller, if he really sold the vessel ? would have some details of the alleged buyer at least the banking details if not but in any event it is for him to resolve. My thoughts are either a poorly constituted scam / fraud obtaining money by deception, one for the officers of the Law to pursue?

 

[Spyro]

It can be, if he jumps very carefully through the right legal hoops. The RYA legal department regularly gives advice on these things, I gather, and I presume that they have someone who does Scottish law.

.

And how long and at what expense might that cost? I'm sure that mooring warp must be getting pretty worn now what with all those winter storms.....................only a foolish owner would leave a boat unattended all winter in

 

[JumbleDuck]

And how long and at what expense might that cost? I'm sure that mooring warp must be getting pretty worn now what with all those winter storms.....................only a foolish owner would leave a boat unattended all winter in

I'd also be mildly peeved if someone cut my mooring while I was in hospital, because they had "bought" my mooring from a conman.

 

[lpdsn]

In August we bought a swinging mooring in Largs ( west coast of Scotland ) , the seller sold his yacht which was on the mooring on Gumtree to a person who he says is not contactable as he doesn't have any contact details at all and the yacht is still on the mooring.

There's always a bit of a lynch mob mentality on here for these sort of issues. You get the impression some forumites regularly wander around their home towns at night carrying flaming torches.

Having spent far too much of my life abroad on business I have some sympathy for the guy in the middle who is trying to sort this out from Australia.

The key thing is whether you think he's b'sheeting you or not. Only you can work that out as none of the rest of us have spoken to him. It does seem implausable that he could've sold the boat without having some form of contact, even if he was paid in cash. They must've exchange phone calls or e-mails unless it was someone local that he knew. And, of course, you've got to judge whether he really has sold the boat. So first off start putting a lot more pressure on him. Yes, you could try the solicitor's letter, but that would rather get his back up so shouldn't be the first resort.

I presume you want to start using the mooring yourself from April, so that's five and a bit weeks. Determine in advance at which point you're going to press the buttons (such as for a solicitor's letter) within that timeline and make sure he knows it.

 

[Mister E]

Does the op have any documents to show he actually owns the mooring?

He has said the official transfer has been stopped. So the only thing he can hope for is his money back, it was cash and probably no receipt.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The OP has said he/she does not own the mooring. It is crystal clear. The owner of the mooring has the money but the transfer of ownership has not happened because there is a boat on the mooring.

As others have said, the only matter at stake here is that the OP has paid for a mooring that has not yet been transferred to him, because there is a boat on the mooring.

Advising the OP to move the boat, scuttle the boat, cut the mooring is likely to make him/her a criminal and is stupid advice. Personally I think the owner of the mooring was hoping that the boat would become the OP's issue.

 

[LadyInBed]

I would have thought that the chap who sold the boat must have met the buyer to exchange boat keys and any docs and write a bill of sale (and get his money).
I think he's pulling your plonker!

 

[Mister E]

I would have thought that the chap who sold the boat must have met the buyer to exchange boat keys and any docs and write a bill of sale (and get his money).
I think he's pulling your plonker!

That is the same type of paper trail I was trying to get at. I though I asked if he had a receipt not claimed any documented ownership.
If he does it may make getting his money back easier.

 

[dunedin]

I fear that vacant possession may arise over the next week or so, looking at the weather forecast - and if so resulting in severe damage to the boat and expense to clear up the mess along the seashore.
It would be a shame if this happens while a new owner is unwell or worse. One hopes that boat seller (not new mooring owner) is making serious attempts to locate the new owner and/or making arrangements to move the boat into secure berth - easily done whilst still afloat, very expensive and damaging if left too late.
PS is the "local boat club" the original owner was a member of Largs Sc or some other club? Largs may be able to help get some action taken before the local RNLI etc have to sort out the mess retrospectively

 

[JumbleDuck]

OP, in what sense have you "bought" the mooring, and how are the managed in Largs? If you've bought the hardware, and the location is fixed by a mooring association (that's how it is in Port Bannatyne) then it may be easiest just to cut your losses, buy another set of hardware and ask the MA for a different spot. If the mooring is registered individually with the Crown Estate, it might be worth asking them how to proceed.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm this all goes a bit awry; might I suggest what proof or documents of phone calls has the berth purchaser got or is it again none?

Because might I ask did the money from the berth sale fund the trip to Australia ?

Perhaps I have it all wrong, but seem all in all a bit convoluted a position.

Perhaps the Boat came with the mooring, who knows ?

 

[[163233]]

It'll be funny if it turns out that he's looking at the wrong mooring...