Get my engine running again - dealing with the emulsified oil

Bilgediver

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Removing the emulsified oil... this is one of the first things I assume I should do to prevent any corrosion occuring intenrally given it will be several weeks (in my dreams) before re-assembly, or is corrosion unlikely given it is a very oily-salt water mix? If I do remove it, should I replace it temporarily with something like a diesel/oil mix or just 'engine oil'? Should I temporarily 'overfill' it to maximise coverage around the crank or even hand-crank it in an attempt to get it pumped thru the system?
Did you lhappen eave the cooling water running thruogh the engine when it was stopped.if ashore.?

You may have suffered backlog via an open exhaust valve from the exhaust elbow. Whe shor only run the cooling water while the engine is running.


There is no need to panic . Just get the contaminated oil out using a Pelo or similar. Put some fresh oil in to flush out bearings and. Passage ways and remove this and fill with fresh oil. We had a boat in our marina that contaminated his oil 5 times before he found the source and the engine did not seem to suffer .
 
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chris-s

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Right, I think that’s the oil dealt with for now. It’s had about 14 litres thru it and then a final change. Four filters and about 20 minutes of running, in short runs. It sounds pretty good, starts on the button, smokes as expected but looking hopeful. The oil was still pretty mucky, but that can wait until we put it back together.
So, on with the next task, head off.
 

scottie

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Right, I think that’s the oil dealt with for now. It’s had about 14 litres thru it and then a final change. Four filters and about 20 minutes of running, in short runs. It sounds pretty good, starts on the button, smokes as expected but looking hopeful. The oil was still pretty mucky, but that can wait until we put it back together.
So, on with the next task, head off.
As previously suggested sea water pump is easier to check than head
Try not to disturb injectors without using proper tool
 

chris-s

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As previously suggested sea water pump is easier to check than head
Try not to disturb injectors without using proper tool
How would you diagnose the water pump tho since it does not visibly leak which i understand is a precursor to its impending failure? Other than rebuilding it and ‘seeing what happens’. Maybe a visual inspection would reveal something obvious but I imagine if it was that obvious then it would be leaking anyhow.

I’ve got a build kit so will fit that anyhow.
 

chris-s

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I do not say this is what happened to OP ... but it is well known that overcranking a reluctant engine can end up with water getting into engine by way of exhaust ...
Indeed, but we can discount that in this case, reluctance to start has never been an issue for us.

For those following along at home, it’s never easy not seeing the situation firsthand, but we arrived at our destination having only noticed a little steam and possible rpm note change in the last few minutes and the oil level and condition looked fine, it was only when I started the engine later in the evening that something was instantly clearly amiss, and sure enough emulsified oil and a good deal higher on the dipstick.

The raw water pumps on these engines have significant ’slots’ rather than small weep holes between the seals so any seal failure would be hard to miss. But oh how I wish it was just the water pump.
 

scottie

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How would you diagnose the water pump tho since it does not visibly leak which i understand is a precursor to its impending failure? Other than rebuilding it and ‘seeing what happens’. Maybe a visual inspection would reveal something obvious but I imagine if it was that obvious then it would be leaking anyhow.

I’ve got a build kit so will fit that anyhow.
Check the telltale slots are clear they can become blocked although the later pumps are bigger
Leaking along shaft is not as obvious as you might expect
Remember that you are looking for a possible transfer from water to oil
 

billskip

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Check the telltale slots are clear they can become blocked although the later pumps are bigger
Leaking along shaft is not as obvious as you might expect
Remember that you are looking for a possible transfer from water to oil
Something odd about this...a considerable amount of water was in the oil raising the level on the dip stick....now after several changes of oil and short periods running engine, is water still getting into the oil?
 

chris-s

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Something odd about this...a considerable amount of water was in the oil raising the level on the dip stick....now after several changes of oil and short periods running engine, is water still getting into the oil?
Not really. I’ve disconnected the water whilst performing oil changes to help purge the emulsified oil and giving it multiple short runs with each change to flush the oil thru and help warm it up which makes it so much easier to remove. When I say ‘running’, I’m starting it (easily) and stopping it after 30-40 seconds at a time so as not to overheat the exhaust.
For sure, once the water is turned back in I’m certain water would appear back in oil.

I will rebuild the water pump and might try it with water first before removing the head but given that there was zero leaks from it and the amount that the oil level rose in just those few moments during the final run on the day, then I remain doubtful it would be the culprit.
 

billskip

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Not really. I’ve disconnected the water whilst performing oil changes to help purge the emulsified oil and giving it multiple short runs with each change to flush the oil thru and help warm it up which makes it so much easier to remove. When I say ‘running’, I’m starting it (easily) and stopping it after 30-40 seconds at a time so as not to overheat the exhaust.
For sure, once the water is turned back in I’m certain water would appear back in oil.

I will rebuild the water pump and might try it with water first before removing the head but given that there was zero leaks from it and the amount that the oil level rose in just those few moments during the final run on the day, then I remain doubtful it would be the culprit.
I'm sure you will resolve it, but it wouldn't be the first head gasket to be changed unnecessary...recent post by 38mes .....no doubt you are right, but ....as for water getting into the oil via an exhaust valve, I'm sure there would certainly be more serious indicators.....water pump, a rebuild wouldn't be a total waste of time and money if it's getting on a bit.
 

RogerJolly

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If water can get into the oil, can oil get into the water (slick round the boat)?

Maybe something to check as another clue to the problem (guessing it would be hard to miss though, so not likely).
 

AntarcticPilot

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How would you diagnose the water pump tho since it does not visibly leak which i understand is a precursor to its impending failure? Other than rebuilding it and ‘seeing what happens’. Maybe a visual inspection would reveal something obvious but I imagine if it was that obvious then it would be leaking anyhow.

I’ve got a build kit so will fit that anyhow.
If it's leaking, it will be visible on the 2003.
 

stone beach

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If I understand correctly your engine is cooled by sea water directly, there is no fresh water system. Here is what I would try,

1. remove the discharge hose from sea water pump, where it goes to the engine block.
2. connect by means of hoses and reducers, doesn't matter what it looks like, a fresh water hose to the engine block sea water inlet.
3. remove the sea water discharge where it comes out of the engine block to go into the exhaust hose.
4. find a way to blank off the sea water discharge where it comes out of the engine block, again by means of hoses and reducers, wooden bungs in the hose etc, again it doesn't matter what it looks like.
5. check oil level in the sump
6. turn on the fresh water hose
7. you now have a pressure test on your water jacket of whatever is the mains pressure at your marina, it wont be much, probably about 1 bar. If you are worried about over pressuring you can rig up another hose teeing off the test supply and by squirting that one and shutting the supply valve reduce the test pressure. The hose elasticity will help you get a happy balance here.
8. observe if your sump fills with water.
9. this will prove if the water got into your sump from the water jacket (including the cylinder head) or not.
 

chris-s

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If I understand correctly your engine is cooled by sea water directly, there is no fresh water system. Here is what I would try,

1. remove the discharge hose from sea water pump, where it goes to the engine block.
2. connect by means of hoses and reducers, doesn't matter what it looks like, a fresh water hose to the engine block sea water inlet.
3. remove the sea water discharge where it comes out of the engine block to go into the exhaust hose.
4. find a way to blank off the sea water discharge where it comes out of the engine block, again by means of hoses and reducers, wooden bungs in the hose etc, again it doesn't matter what it looks like.
5. check oil level in the sump
6. turn on the fresh water hose
7. you now have a pressure test on your water jacket of whatever is the mains pressure at your marina, it wont be much, probably about 1 bar. If you are worried about over pressuring you can rig up another hose teeing off the test supply and by squirting that one and shutting the supply valve reduce the test pressure. The hose elasticity will help you get a happy balance here.
8. observe if your sump fills with water.
9. this will prove if the water got into your sump from the water jacket (including the cylinder head) or not.
Hmm…it’s a thought, tho on a swing mooring I’d have to rig up a bilge pump or maybe the onboard freshwater system pump.
Alternatively if the purpose is to eliminate or not the sea water pump, which is really the only other way water could have gotten in, that is easily removed and taken home and a similar exercise undertaken to check its seals but tbh the fact that there was no sign of it leaking and even if it could have wicked along the shaft with no other trace, I can’t see how enough could have made it thru to raise the oil level that much in less than a minute, we are talking a litre or so.
Eitherway, thanks for the suggestion , I will give it some thought and take some hoses with me.
 

chris-s

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Hmm…it’s a thought, tho on a swing mooring I’d have to rig up a bilge pump or maybe the onboard freshwater system pump.
Alternatively if the purpose is to eliminate or not the sea water pump, which is really the only other way water could have gotten in, that is easily removed and taken home and a similar exercise undertaken to check its seals but tbh the fact that there was no sign of it leaking and even if it could have wicked along the shaft with no other trace, I can’t see how enough could have made it thru to raise the oil level that much in less than a minute, we are talking a litre or so.
Eitherway, thanks for the suggestion , I will give it some thought and take some hoses with me.
Tho I might as well rebuild the pump, which I was planning on doing anyhow and trying it in situ.
 

AntarcticPilot

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Hmm…it’s a thought, tho on a swing mooring I’d have to rig up a bilge pump or maybe the onboard freshwater system pump.
Alternatively if the purpose is to eliminate or not the sea water pump, which is really the only other way water could have gotten in, that is easily removed and taken home and a similar exercise undertaken to check its seals but tbh the fact that there was no sign of it leaking and even if it could have wicked along the shaft with no other trace, I can’t see how enough could have made it thru to raise the oil level that much in less than a minute, we are talking a litre or so.
Eitherway, thanks for the suggestion , I will give it some thought and take some hoses with me.
You could only not know if the water pump was leaking if the back of the pump was severely clogged up with dirt and grease. Given the pictures you've posted, that doesn't look likely - your engine is cleaner and tidier than mine, and it's obvious on mine! Further you need two seals to fail for that to be the problem.

It's actually pretty easy to dismantle the water pump, in any case. I've had to replace seals twice, and in neither case was there any contamination of the engine oil.
 
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