UK circum capable <27ft yacht?

[dunedin]

Hurley 22, It is a small boat, but I have seen some great videos on YouTube of these boats crossing oceans.

But crossing oceans and (motoring) round Britain are very different things. Other than Lands End and Cape Wrath, which should be timed for good weather, it is a coastal bashing trip. And sadly if done to a timetable likely to be largely motoring to keep to self imposed schedule.
To my mind it is a very unappealing delivery mode trip, unable to flex the route to suit the weather. But clearly some like to tick that particular box.
The bilge keel or not debate is largely irrelevant, as both can do it (if have good diesel inboard). But other than a few places on East Coast, very few constraints on a fin keel of modest depth (1.5m or so), especially if use the Irish coast (better for shelter from prevailing Westerlies) rather than Welsh coast.

 

[Tranona]

Are you saying that the criteria for a Bilge Keel has changed so BK is no longer a viable option .... sorry T .. but that's so wrong.

Plus the budget guy is talking - read it carefully - its no doubt he will aim at the lower end figure he quoted - based on his later comment about funds after. Plenty of good BK / Fin boats in that budget range ..

Plus as we all know trying to circum UK or anywhere to a time table is near impossible ... so those bolt holes and escape points become important. That 2 months will easily extend and then what's he going to do with a boat forced to moor and store in a marina ? With a BK'r - he can stuff it up a creek somewhere at vastly less cost while he works out how to complete the circum.

Sorry but just pushing the Fin Keel is limiting. I am not against Fin Keel - I own a Fin Keel boat as well as a BK'r ...

I look at what OP wants to do and suggest based on what I would expect to encounter doing the circum.

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that a fin keel is no barrier - witness the hundreds of people who do it each year with fin keeled boats. The advantage of a bilge keeler is the ability to explore shallow rivers and dry out - but neither of these are necessary to circumnavigate the UK just as the vast majority of boats used for coastal sailing in the UK are fin keeled. Bilge keels were a product of the times and times have changed, which is why effectively none have been built for 25 years.

There is no shortage of boats under 8m within the budget, some of which inevitably have twin keels, but as many have advised condition and gear is far more important than keel type. Equally as myself and others have suggested a larger boat might be better as not only is it likely to be more comfortable, but opens up greater flexibility in planning because in general daily mileages are greater and can make progress in a wider range of conditions.

 

[ridgy]

Hurley 22, It is a small boat, but I have seen some great videos on YouTube of these boats crossing oceans.

The man said two months,.not two years.

I have fond rose tinted memories of mine from years ago,.but if I strain the brain a bit harder I can start to remember the sound of an outboard whining away, then the time ran out of petrol getting back from Dublin and took 23 hours to do 55 miles. Then I can think about the backache from stopping in the cabin and that was after only afew days.

Inboard diesel essential for this trip.

 

[Refueler]

I'm trying to stay 'practical' ... within 'budget' ... imagining all the ups and downs of such an undertaking .. the likely need because of time / funds running out ...

I am not 'selling' the idea of a BK boat because I have one ... far from it.

I am suggesting it as a sensible boat type for the intended job.

 

[Wansworth]

I'm trying to stay 'practical' ... within 'budget' ... imagining all the ups and downs of such an undertaking .. the likely need because of time / funds running out ...

I am not 'selling' the idea of a BK boat because I have one ... far from it.

I am suggesting it as a sensible boat type for the intended job.

Certainly if the trip has to be aborted a bk will be more adaptable to being left safely in marginal conditions

 

[Seegull]

Of interest to other prospective circumnavigators and cruisers. Is the proposed Clydeport area fee of 120GBP, it covers a huge area including part of the Isle of Arran. Many more of these "fees" for "special areas" will come up in the future for sure!!
Petition is here:

Sign the Petition

 

[StUrrock]

Quite a lot of boat for £14K
Hunter Horizon 272 For Sale, 8.31m, 1991

Hunter is a good choice what about a bigger Hurley , don’t ask me how I know it’s a good one

Hurley 30/90 — David Morris Yacht Brokerage

 

[fredrussell]

People think that the stub keel version of lifting keel cannot stand on their own ... sorry but that is not correct. Many happy hours as a kid on my Fathers lift keel Snapdragon - which had a stub keel ... sitting on hard and soft ground.
That's just one example. many are seen on drying moorings happily standing up.

Surely the only stub lift-keelers that are designed to stand on the stub without support are those with twin rudders designed to take a good part of the weight of boat and keep her upright.

 

[matt1]

Another vote for a twin keeler, preferably a Hunter or later Westerly, Moody or Sadler all of which would sail well.

In the size bracket suggested, passage speeds won’t be that fast and likely quite variable so the ability to drop into the many drying harbours along the way would factor high on my list of priorities for this kind of passage rather than having to slog it out against adverse tidal gates to deep water harbours.

 

[V1701]

But crossing oceans and (motoring) round Britain are very different things. Other than Lands End and Cape Wrath, which should be timed for good weather, it is a coastal bashing trip. And sadly if done to a timetable likely to be largely motoring to keep to self imposed schedule.
To my mind it is a very unappealing delivery mode trip, unable to flex the route to suit the weather. But clearly some like to tick that particular box.
The bilge keel or not debate is largely irrelevant, as both can do it (if have good diesel inboard). But other than a few places on East Coast, very few constraints on a fin keel of modest depth (1.5m or so), especially if use the Irish coast (better for shelter from prevailing Westerlies) rather than Welsh coast.

That pretty much says it all for me...
For what it's worth here's my trip from Aberdovey to Brighton summarised, perhaps gives a snapshot of what you might get:

Day 1 (two-up) - AM leave Aberdovey, arrive Milford Haven in worsening weather having taken a battering at about 3AM next morning. Motorsailed all the way.
Day 2-5 - Milford Haven Marina (lovely people, recommended) due to weather.
Day 6 (two-up) - Milford Haven across Bristol channel arrive Falmouth motored all the way, took about 28 hours IIRC

Left boat in Falmouth for a few weeks as crew lost interest and weather worsening again, then the rest solo:

Falmouth - Start Bay, anchored for the night, 12 hours or so, mostly motorsailing
Start Bay - Weymouth, anchored again, 12 hours or so, mostly motorsailing
Weymouth - Gosport, Gosport Marina, 12 hours or so, mostly motorsailing
Gosport - Brighton, 8 hours or so, mostly motorsailing

This was a delivery trip but effectively if you're on a tight time frame you'll be on an extended delivery trip and it might not be very dissimilar, at least part of the time. It is exhausting. You need a good engine, this is why we've been banging on about replacement engines. This trip was on a 1969 Bowman 26 with a nearly new Beta twin 10hp, must have sailed without engine maybe no more than 10 hours...

 

[Refueler]

Surely the only stub lift-keelers that are designed to stand on the stub without support are those with twin rudders designed to take a good part of the weight of boat and keep her upright.

Wrong .. such as Snapdragon and other stub / lift keel boats - the stub extended back and had prop shaft exit at atft end.

Various marques like the Seadog .. Snapdragons ... and others took ground fine. Of course if you tried it on a sloping bank - then you were asking too much.

 

[Refueler]

Another vote for a twin keeler, preferably a Hunter or later Westerly, Moody or Sadler all of which would sail well.

In the size bracket suggested, passage speeds won’t be that fast and likely quite variable so the ability to drop into the many drying harbours along the way would factor high on my list of priorities for this kind of passage rather than having to slog it out against adverse tidal gates to deep water harbours.

Thank you .. exactly my point ...

The OP is looking for a boat to do a circum ... he's not looking for speed and beating to windward ability ...

Who in h****s name wants to slog into wind doing a circum ??

 

[fredrussell]

Wrong .. such as Snapdragon and other stub / lift keel boats - the stub extended back and had prop shaft exit at atft end.

Various marques like the Seadog .. Snapdragons ... and others took ground fine. Of course if you tried it on a sloping bank - then you were asking too much

…and how would our intrepid circumnavigator know if bottom was sloping or not as tide went out? What you’re talking about is balancing a boat on its stub on nice flat ground that’s known to be nice and flat - it’s totally bonkers to suggest to a person that will be in new and unknown harbours that perching precariously on a stub keel is a viable option. In the thread below a stub keel Prelude owner asks about doing what you’re suggesting and the other stub keel owners say it’s fine on soft mud, but a bad idea on hard surface:
Taking the ground on a lifting keel? - Prelude Owners

…put it this way, can you show me a picture from the web of a single rudder stub keel boat sitting on its stub on hard ground unsupported? I couldn’t find any??

 

[dunedin]

Thank you .. exactly my point ...

The OP is looking for a boat to do a circum ... he's not looking for speed and beating to windward ability ...

Who in h****s name wants to slog into wind doing a circum ??

But that is indeed the issue with a round Britain trip in a single season. As going in a fixed direction for months, can be faced with a lot of slogs into the wind if the weather does not fit your preprepared schedule.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

But that is indeed the issue with a round Britain trip in a single season. As going in a fixed direction for months, can be faced with a lot of slogs into the wind if the weather does not fit your preprepared schedule.

Which is why I’d want the fastest boat possible. You can slow down a fast boat, you can’t speed up a slow one. Several decent performers have been mentioned. Whilst taking the ground is a great idea in principle, it doesn’t happen very often. We can, but would rather float. Its much more restful. Too much to think about and do to take the ground on a trip like this. We do it for lunch on the right tide, hardly ever overnight.

 

[Refueler]

…and how would our intrepid circumnavigator know if bottom was sloping or not as tide went out? What you’re talking about is balancing a boat on its stub on nice flat ground that’s known to be nice and flat - it’s totally bonkers to suggest to a person that will be in new and unknown harbours that perching precariously on a stub keel is a viable option. In the thread below a stub keel Prelude owner asks about doing what you’re suggesting and the other stub keel owners say it’s fine on soft mud, but a bad idea on hard surface:
Taking the ground on a lifting keel? - Prelude Owners

…put it this way, can you show me a picture from the web of a single rudder stub keel boat sitting on its stub on hard ground unsupported? I couldn’t find any??

My reply was a direct reply to you - not to OP .... you say its not possible to stand a stub keel boat - but in fact it is.

If I had the photos from my Fathers albums - I could show you ... sadly - they are lost.

The best photo was actually in the narrows entering Bembridge IoW .... we were on our way in ... and a catamaran hogged the centre of the narrow channel and forced us onto the shelving bank ... we ran aground.
Tide went out - we were left standing on a SHELVING bank until tide came back in ... All the kids and beach goers had a laugh walking round us ..

 

[Refueler]

But that is indeed the issue with a round Britain trip in a single season. As going in a fixed direction for months, can be faced with a lot of slogs into the wind if the weather does not fit your preprepared schedule.

Not arguing that point ... and is WHY I advocate a boat that can duck into any bolt-hole to avoid the worst slogs ...

Some years ago - YBW did a review of two same boats .. think they were Sadler 26's ... one was fin - other was twin keel ... they sailed together - both manned by experienced crews ... and the difference in sailing ability / speed / pointing was negligible. Similar would be found if you sailed a BK Centaur alongside its fin keel sister ...

Schedule : Nearly every example of 'planned' trips to a schedule have ended up NOT to schedule that I read / watch online ...

Like the old joke about Train Timetables :

Gent : Why do you post up a timetable if the trains are so often late ?

Station master : If we didn't post up a timetable - you wouldn't know the trains were late !

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The thought of sailing round Britain in an old Centaur has brought on an involuntary shudder of horror.

 

[Refueler]

I own a series of boats ranging from 5m up to 11.5m .....

The main two are a 25ft Motor Sailer with Bilge Keels.
The other a 38ft Cruiser Racer with Fin keel.

The 25 has taken me round the Baltic in the Swedish and Finnish Islands .... longest trip being 10 days ... usually only two of us on board - but has been 3.
We could cut through channels and access that no fin keel else could ....

For anyone who has been in those waters - the number of locations with full facilities as most of you lot would call for is seriously limited. So the boat has to provide.

With the 38 - of course the size of boat and its sailing ability is in another league - but that fin keel would mean a lot of the spots I used with the 25 are now lost to me.

It would not be a simple decision as to which boat used ...... the itinery / number of people etc would all play a factor. Its also planned that the 25 will remain on the river at back of my house saving the mast up / down everytime I want to sail out of harbour.

 

[Refueler]

The thought of sailing round Britain in an old Centaur has brought on an involuntary shudder of horror.

There are some bad and some very good examples ... like anything else.

Maybe look at some of the other suggestions ?? Same age of boat ... no shudders with them ??