Time for more regulations ????

[Mark-1]

Good idea, Thistle. I've got a copy of "Yachtmaster" he can have for nothing and an old copy of Reeds which will be better than nothing as long as he gets tide times from elsewhere. I can drop off at Gosport any time. My details are in my profile.

I've also got a copy of the col regs he can have.

 

[tom_sail]

I'm with the majority here. Let the bloke do what he wants. The best way to learn is by figuring things out for your self, learn from your mistakes.

If I was in your boots I would invite him on to my boat. Show him the ropes, quick EP and tidal heights exercise and show him round his engine. At least you can sleep at night knowing you tried your best.

 

[Mark-1]

I'm with the majority here. Let the bloke do what he wants. The best way to learn is by figuring things out for your self, learn from your mistakes.

If I was in your boots I would invite him on to my boat. Show him the ropes, quick EP and tidal heights exercise and show him round his engine. At least you can sleep at night knowing you tried your best.

+1. If he's offered useful information he might decide he's not up to the trip. Or he may be lucky and find he takes to it naturally and can do the trip easily, compensating for the flaws in his boat. A stranger doing a Corporal Fraser impression will just be ignored.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I agree with no additional legislation even when cases like this happen. They will happen anyway, even with qualified people and boats as we can read about on here.

I think though that you have a duty to try and stop him as best as you can. I drove past a person who was drunk and waiting at a bus stop. I knew the person intimately, was close to them and knew where they were going. I couldn't be bothered with their drunken bull in the car. About 5 minutes later that person walked in front of a car, as they decided to go back to the pub and the injuries eventually led to their death. It bothers me significantly 6 years later that I could have intervened and they may have been alive today, especially as the person was a good human when not drunk, and loved by many.

If his boat is unsafe, then report it as you advised but tell him of your concerns and what you will do to prevent him from going to sea. However, explore the mud berth option and at least help him with an alternative offer first. It could save his life.

 

[dylanwinter]

excellent posting

I agree with no additional legislation even when cases like this happen. They will happen anyway, even with qualified people and boats as we can read about on here.

I think though that you have a duty to try and stop him as best as you can. I drove past a person who was drunk and waiting at a bus stop. I knew the person intimately, was close to them and knew where they were going. I couldn't be bothered with their drunken bull in the car. About 5 minutes later that person walked in front of a car, as they decided to go back to the pub and the injuries eventually led to their death. It bothers me significantly 6 years later that I could have intervened and they may have been alive today, especially as the person was a good human when not drunk, and loved by many.

If his boat is unsafe, then report it as you advised but tell him of your concerns and what you will do to prevent him from going to sea. However, explore the mud berth option and at least help him with an alternative offer first. It could save his life.

excellent post old boots

you contextualise the predicament perfectly

until I read your post I was with the non interventionists in favour of letting the bloke take his own risks

of course over the past four years of sailing around the UK I have been collared by several boatyard experts who like to tell me what I am doing wrong

ranging from boat too small, not wearing a life-line at all times when sailing single handed, only a hand held radio

but on the other hand...... one of things I love about sailing is that there is the sense of freedom I get from it

so on balance.....

the bloke should be allowed to take is own risks and face his own fears by himself

My dad never took a driving test in his life and he was twice the driver I will ever be

Irresponsible Dyl

 

[mikeinkwazi]

I have to say I'm with TCM here. Ultimately if an idiot wishes to kill himself, well, what are we supposed to do about it? I'd rather someone took to sea in an unseaworthy boat than drove down a motorway the wrong way killing others or jumped in front of a train causing chaos for thousands. So he doesn't know enough to realise he's in danger? Well he'll maybe learn, but if it does all go wrong, to be brutal about it the human species is hardly endangered - quite the contrary in fact - so one individual removing himself from the gene pool is no big deal.

I agree, but first of all can this man sail? I started in the 60's with an engineless boat and No training at all. It was on a swinging mooring and the tides were 10 metre. I started by putting the sails up and down, and 'sailing' with a long line still attached to the mooring! After several days of this I let go at slack water and had a little free sailing. By the end of the month we were working the tides up and down the Milford Haven. If he can sail (with or without an engine!) let him go.

 

[Lakesailor]

Dylan, I notice you didn't include the suicidal tea-lights in your list.......

 

[oldgit]

So in the interests of safety whats to be done? For my part I will be contacting QHM to advise of my concerns in the hope they will impound the boat.



Do whatever you feel is right under the circumstances, at least you were bothered enough to worry about the chap.

 

[Stemar]

We had someone around a year or two ago in a similar position, except that he was heading East. We did what we could to give a few pointers, gave him a couple of surplus lifejackets, charts & whatever other bits & pieces we could to make his tub a bit more seaworthy. Telling him he needed to do a course and have a full set of kit wouldn't have done any good - he hadn't even the money for a decent meal.

I hope he made it. If he didn't, he drowned like a gentleman 'cos we didn't read about him in the papers.

+1 for no legislation. My qualification states that I'm competant to navigate in familar waters in the daytime. Last year I skippered a delivery from Cornwall to Essex, including entering several unfamilar ports at night and my crew seemed to think I did OK. OTOH, I used to know an Ocean Yachtmaster with thousands of miles under his belt that I wouldn't leave in charge of a pedalo on the Serpentine.

 

[Searush]

Some classic examples of help & support in this thread, well done. You will never prohibit this sort of thing, but the RNLI safety check is an excellent idea as is to donation of unwanted kit.

One other thing is to encourage him to read Ann Davison's book "Last Voyage". She & her husband set sail in an unfinished project boat to escape debts. It foundered & he was lost, she made it ashore after a night on a Carley float & later went on to become the first woman to sail solo across the Atlantic (her other book, also worth a read!)

 

[prv]

There's a lot of sense in OldBoots's post. I'm with everyone else in opposing legislation - it's not the state's job to prevent everyone hurting themselves in every possible way - but you may still have a moral problem. If you still feel you do need to try to stop him going, perhaps a word with the local Coastguard volunteers, either directly or via their professional counterparts. They come and debrief the survivors whenever the lifeboats return from a shout, and when the cause was numptiness they can be quite good at educating.

Pete

 

[haydude]

If there is something I like about the UK is the freedom provided by the absence of regulations around sailing.

I recognize that had I been in my own country I would have never had a chance to begin sailing in the first place.

I started the same way, with an old banger (although seaworthy) and no knowledge of charts and navigation.

But it was the enthusiasm brought by ownership that pushed me to learn more and more and took me where I am now.

It is sensibility rather than regulation that should govern one individual's actions. If that is not the case, well the UK is also Darwin's land. Natural selection.

 

[alant]

Reading the thread tonight about the RNLI reminded me of someone, who in the near future, is highly likely to be in need of their services.

The 'someone' I refer to has recently purchased himself a 30' ish wooden ketch dating from the 1930's. He has no experience whatsoever. Never been to seas before. Does not know how to read a chart or interpret a weather forecast, even if he knew how to get one.
I learn today that he intends sailing his yacht from Gosport to South Wales in the next few weeks, because he cannot afford the marina fees here.

I do not consider the boat seaworthy. Far from it, to do such a passage this time of year.
Without going into great detail, but to set the scene, I can say the standing rigging is in a desperate state with strands of wire broke on a number of shrouds, and the standing rigging must be 25 years old, if not even older. I wont even mention the condition of the sails. The engine has a number of leaks such that the bilge pump operates every 15 mins or so. Yes its that bad. The hull itself looks basically sound. There is no safety equipment.

When he returns to his boat this weekend I will of course advise him in no uncertain terms
that in my opinion it would madness to take the boat to sea, and point out to him the reasons why & the dangers he will be putting himself in. He is however, a very head strong character & I have doubt he will listen to me.

So in the interests of safety whats to be done? For my part I will be contacting QHM to advise of my concerns in the hope they will impound the boat. Nothing more I can do.

The above is a classic example of why I believe it is time that there was a legal requirement in force such that all pleasure boat owners /skippers going to sea had to have some form of qualifications.

Comments................

If its that bad, don't worry, he'll get as far as Cowes & then----

 

[alant]

surley if the cost of a marina berth is the main reason for his proposed trip,would it not be a good idea to advise him that there are places in the Solant area where you can keep a boat at a very reasonable cost ie mud berth or half tide these are advertised regularley in PBO

Where, where??

 

[stevensuf]

Hey its the darwin effect in motion! If you want to regulate, why not have a lecture thing rather than exams & licenses, ie explain the basic dangers and issues, the let the person decide.

 

[Nicholas123]

Reading the thread tonight about the RNLI reminded me of someone, who in the near future, is highly likely to be in need of their services.

The 'someone' I refer to has recently purchased himself a 30' ish wooden ketch dating from the 1930's. He has no experience whatsoever. Never been to seas before. Does not know how to read a chart or interpret a weather forecast, even if he knew how to get one.
I learn today that he intends sailing his yacht from Gosport to South Wales in the next few weeks, because he cannot afford the marina fees here.

I do not consider the boat seaworthy. Far from it, to do such a passage this time of year.
Without going into great detail, but to set the scene, I can say the standing rigging is in a desperate state with strands of wire broke on a number of shrouds, and the standing rigging must be 25 years old, if not even older. I wont even mention the condition of the sails. The engine has a number of leaks such that the bilge pump operates every 15 mins or so. Yes its that bad. The hull itself looks basically sound. There is no safety equipment.

When he returns to his boat this weekend I will of course advise him in no uncertain terms
that in my opinion it would madness to take the boat to sea, and point out to him the reasons why & the dangers he will be putting himself in. He is however, a very head strong character & I have doubt he will listen to me.

So in the interests of safety whats to be done? For my part I will be contacting QHM to advise of my concerns in the hope they will impound the boat. Nothing more I can do.

The above is a classic example of why I believe it is time that there was a legal requirement in force such that all pleasure boat owners /skippers going to sea had to have some form of qualifications.

Comments................

It's his own life.Mind your own business.

 

[alant]

It's his own life.Mind your own business.

Is it though?

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303638

 

[Nicholas123]

Is it though?

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303638

I did'nt bother to read that thread because I have heard all the old arguments before.Searush seemed to sum it up pretty well or if not him try.......

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.
-Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)"

There is something stifling about people telling other people how to live their lives.One of the most sickening things I think is the argument from people we hear telling other people that they must not end their own lives (euthanasia).A few less of them would certainly be beneficial to the world

 

[Sybarite]

Reading the thread tonight about the RNLI reminded me of someone, who in the near future, is highly likely to be in need of their services.

The 'someone' I refer to has recently purchased himself a 30' ish wooden ketch dating from the 1930's. He has no experience whatsoever. Never been to seas before. Does not know how to read a chart or interpret a weather forecast, even if he knew how to get one.
I learn today that he intends sailing his yacht from Gosport to South Wales in the next few weeks, because he cannot afford the marina fees here.

I do not consider the boat seaworthy. Far from it, to do such a passage this time of year.
Without going into great detail, but to set the scene, I can say the standing rigging is in a desperate state with strands of wire broke on a number of shrouds, and the standing rigging must be 25 years old, if not even older. I wont even mention the condition of the sails. The engine has a number of leaks such that the bilge pump operates every 15 mins or so. Yes its that bad. The hull itself looks basically sound. There is no safety equipment.

When he returns to his boat this weekend I will of course advise him in no uncertain terms
that in my opinion it would madness to take the boat to sea, and point out to him the reasons why & the dangers he will be putting himself in. He is however, a very head strong character & I have doubt he will listen to me.

So in the interests of safety whats to be done? For my part I will be contacting QHM to advise of my concerns in the hope they will impound the boat. Nothing more I can do.

The above is a classic example of why I believe it is time that there was a legal requirement in force such that all pleasure boat owners /skippers going to sea had to have some form of qualifications.

Comments................

Qualifications --> registration --> data base --> potential for taxation.

 

[Searush]

Qualifications --> registration --> data base --> potential for taxation.

You missed a few steps out;

Qualifications --> COST = registration --> More COST = data base --> Even more Costn = potential for taxation = yet more cost