The shape of things to come?

[TrueBlue]

CART are asking for donations to do essential repairs - here

IF they takeover the Thames (and other navigations) are we likely to see similar appeals on "our" waters??

 

[Brayman]

CART are asking for donations to do essential repairs - here

IF they takeover the Thames (and other navigations) are we likely to see similar appeals on "our" waters??

deja vu

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332189

 

[oldgit]

IF they takeover the Thames (and other navigations) are we likely to see similar appeals on "our" waters??[/QUOTE]



I reckon an additional donation of £500 quid per Thames boater may go some way to actually financing the amounts required to fund the sort of facilities enjoyed on the Thames.So about £1000 or a mere £20.00 a week from you lot should do nicely ?
Down here under the same scheme we will probably get a refund of some description.

 

[TrueBlue]

deja vu

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332189

Oh Poo....
Should have clicked on B1's link (thought it was just CART's standard tin rattling statement).

Makes you wonder though, when they acquired the canal system 'twas said "we've got loads of dosh, £800M over 15 years etc, etc". Now THREE MONTHS after the takeover they're pleading poverty?

Doesn't bode well.

 

[534l4rk]

Probably now added in commitments for salaries and pensions for the Trust management

 

[boatone]

May I commend anyone interested in the C&RT to reading the various information that is publicly available regarding the C&RT and the funding settlement it is receiving from central government - it is not as rosy as some might think.

The annual contribution over the 15 year period is significantly less than was previously made available to BW in Grant in Aid and the Trust will have to work hard to raise additional voluntary contributions to make up the shortfall. Its budget for fundraising in the first year or two is, I believe, less than it actually expects to generate. One of the most significant reasons behind forming the Trust was to enable it to raise funds specifically for purpose from the public at large and make it less dependant on the public purse.

Yes, the C&RT has also been endowed with a substantial property portfolio but that is a separate issue to the ongoing need for generating revenue.

I am still waiting to hear how it is proposed to split the various activities currently provided by the EA for the non tidal Thames so that the navigation function can be transferred to the Trust in 2 or 3 years time. I have no doubt that the trust will also expect, and be given, additional government funding to recognise the increased responsibilities they will assume for the Thames.

As I understand it, as the Trust is now a legal entity, they will enjoy some say in whether or not they actually wish to accept the Thames into their responsibility portfolio - I cannot see them entering freely into such an arrangement if it actually increases the financial burdens they have already taken on. As the EA also possesses very few tangible assets, there can be little benefit to accrue from that quarter.

 

[oldgit]

Suspect there may well be alarm in some quarters when the amount of funding available for some navigations is announced.Thankfully most of our major Medway improvement projects will have been completed and very much doubt there is much "fat" down here to lose.

 

[rotrax]

The latest RYA mag has a fairly illuminating interview with CART's Trustee John Dodwell. Worth a read.

 

[oldgit]

The latest RYA mag has a fairly illuminating interview with CART's Trustee John Dodwell. Worth a read.

Yes read that.Not a lot of certainty or much clarity methinks .
A very large amount of space devoted to sailing and precious little else.

 

[TrueBlue]

Suspect there may well be alarm in some quarters when the amount of funding available for some navigations is announced.Thankfully most of our major Medway improvement projects will have been completed and very much doubt there is much "fat" down here to lose.

At the real risk of being misunderstood, to my mind the Medway and the Nene (I don't have experience / knowledge of other EA waters) are "like" canals already in that the locks are unmanned and designed for user operation. Water level control is simpler - catchment area limited. The Nene rapidly changes to wide canal dimensions so apart from the few remaining manual guillotine gates (a pig to operate since EA emasculated them) they are easy to operate and the system is designed that in flood conditions somebody in Northampton puuls the plug and the water just flushes down (Joke!). There aren't many visitors and the locals seem content.

The Thames is different:-

• There are many visitors
• There is a huge mix of craft and competencies
• The locks are large and not designed for user operation ( I accept that attempts have been made to make user operation easy - but only if the user exhibits a modicum of common sense and RTFM)
• The catchment area is huge (have a look at EA's watercourse site) which to my mind means the operation of weirs needs someone on site during times of heavy rainfall.
• If the system were to change and remove the lock keepers, I believe it would drive a lot of boaters away and the character of the River would change. That's a pity.

For the small amount of extra funding needed to keep an onsite presence, it seems riddiculous to chuck it all away and tear the system apart.

As with all these judgements at the political level the bottom line is cost and estimates of intangible benefits have little persuasive value.

 

[oldgit]

"The Thames is different:-"



A neat and concise precis of the situation and thats why the real problem will occur if some people feel that those voices which are loudest purely because of sheer number plus eloquence and knowledge of exactly whos ear to whisper in,will get an unfair proportion of the largesse.

 

[boatone]

..... and thats why the real problem will occur if some people feel that those voices which are loudest purely because of sheer number plus eloquence and knowledge of exactly whos ear to whisper in,will get an unfair proportion of the largesse.

eh ? Afraid you've lost me !

 

[oldgit]

The sounds of 8000 protesting boaters will prevail over more deserving areas ?

 

[TrueBlue]

The sounds of 8000 protesting boaters will prevail over more deserving areas ?

Now that indeed would be something to behold, (well hear). 10% of that would be nice.

I do try to be low key and not be contentious.
Fred, you've interpreted "different" as "special case".
I'm only pointing out that the Thames has a greater mix of all sorts of users than other rivers many of whom use the locks and would be deterred if they all were DIY operation.

I didn't suggest that funds should be diverted from other waterways in order to retain that service, merely pointing out that Lockies are not a huge drain on resources, which could be funded in several ways.

 

[oldgit]

Just feel that if you even wish to retain what you have now,there may be a considerable increase in the boat licence and wonder if the users of the Thames will accept this ?
You get a remarkable amount for your boat licence and judging from the reluctance by some to pay even the current levels ...........?

 

[TrueBlue]

Just feel that if you even wish to retain what you have now,there may be a considerable increase in the boat licence and wonder if the users of the Thames will accept this ?
You get a remarkable amount for your boat licence and judging from the reluctance by some to pay even the current levels ...........?

Registration fees are the soft option and as you imply may be a matter of diminishing returns. As for a reluctance to pay, then methinks such folk dont want to pay anything.

Other options have been discussed here in some detail, but EA is constrained in what it can do. ,Perhaps another organisation might not be so tethered??

 

[boatone]

Registration fees are the soft option

Registration fees are the obvious option, particularly as it is this government's mantra that those who enjoy services should be the people that pay for them wherever possible.

Expect the increase for 2013 to be announced shortly - if the EA stick to the formula declared last year of CPI for July +2% it will be about 4.6%. The same formula is likely to apply until 2015 when the decision regarding transfer into the C&RT MAY be resolved. In the wake of this years disastrous weather and its impact on boating activity I have lobbied on behalf of TMBA for a reduced increase but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Ramage]

A poor boating season followed by increased costs?

The brokers will be busy...

 

[CJL]

I do wonder if the need to do DIY at the locks will deter people. Perhaps it will change the users instead but keep the numbers similar?

CJL

 

[ADLS]

Lock control.

I do wonder if the need to do DIY at the locks will deter people. Perhaps it will change the users instead but keep the numbers similar?

CJL

Would it not be possible to control the locks remotely from a central station, locks are now being fitted with CCTV and the gates are hydraulic, so hey bang in a computer and sack 10 lock keepers. Bridges and locks are controlled this way in Holland.

If there were no boats on the Thames how would water flow be controlled to prevent flooding. Or would it be left to wizz downhill?????