westernman
Well-known member
You can qualify for RGR (or equivalent) if you are moving your résidence and household to the UK. Of course for this you have to have been résident elsewhere for a certain amount of time (one year??).
Tax not applicable...how can it be ??
- Thread starter Artic Warrior
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billskip
Well-known member
Yes, the same (basically) when I moved to Spain I had to prove possession/ownership for period before import, however Spain makes it very clear easy reading with their explanation of their rules.
The UK rules seem unable to be clarified at source, ie gov.uk.
Ok..I've found it
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Tranona
Well-known member
I have already done this more than once and you can find it by simply using google, but as I am feeling charitable in this new year here it is again Sailing a pleasure craft that is arriving in the UK
You do not need to know the primary legislation. This link gives you all the information you need plus a link to the HMRC unit in Portsmouth that deals with the import of pleasure boats.
Just to clarify RGR is different from Returning Resident Relief (as you will find out if you read the link). Like RGR it is not specific to pleasure boats but covers how those intending to take up permanent residence in the UK can bring their personal chattels, which include pleasure boats free of VAT. Unlike RGR there are conditions related to how long you have owned the boat and restrictions on who can use it and when you can sell after you have taken up residence. The number of people who can avail themselves of this relief is inevitably very limited. The EU has very similar rules. So if you were taking up residence in an EU state from the UK you would be able to apply to take your boat with you.
Tranona
Well-known member
That is correct but with one exception. The original EU rules on certification exempted pre 1998 boats built in the EU/EEA and any boat that was in the EU on 31/12/1997. That exemption is missing from the new UK rules, but I believe still apply in the EU. However, although there have been cases reported here of people importing old UK boats into the EU since Brexit without certification I have not found anything that states definitively that is correct. I have not tried too hard as there is more than enough hassle getting to grips with the UK side - or at least explaining to others what the rules are. You only have to look at the RYA 20 pages on the subject covering all the different permutations to realise that although the principles are simple the application is not necessarily so when considering individual cases.
ylop
Well-known member
An odd assertion which is factually wrong. I’m not sure why, even if I was “in the marine trade” I’d want a slightly smaller market for people to buy second hand boats from. However, whilst I’ve spend a lot of money on boats and marine product over the years, I don’t recall having made a single penny from them.
I assume you will post an apology for this misleading statement.
You are still not understanding the issue was never about the ability to import boats with a current (2013 version of the directive) CE mark. Nobody here has said that is an issue (but you may have VAT issues which as those boats are newer and more expensive could be a problem). The issue was boats built between 1950 and 2013-2017 ish. (Depending when the manufacturer switched to the new standard). You are too pig headed to read what you are being told - those are the age of boats referred to in the OP and which Tranona highlighted the difficulty in importing.
nevis768
Active member
You have continually said it along with Tranona, but hopefully have given up posting absolute crap now faced with the legislation
ylop
Well-known member
A strange way to appologise for making up factually inaccurate information about me. I have absolutely no idea how you still think you are right. But perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that someone who makes up lies about other forum users is incapable of considering their own mistakes.
nevis768
Active member
- On 20 June 2022, the Government announced the provisions for UKCA labelling and importer labelling would be extended until 31 December 2025. On 14 November 2022 the Government announced it would be extending the provisions for UKCA labelling and importer labelling until 31 December 2027. The Product Safety and Metrology (Amendment and Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2022 (SI 2022/1393) give effect to this.
Tranona
Well-known member
That ONLY applies to products that meet the current standards which boats built prior to 2017may not. You have been shown over and over again that is the case. Everybody else understands this so really not sure why you have so much difficulty - but maybe it is you limited comprehension and lack of vocabulary.
ylop
Well-known member
At no point in the thread did we say anything else. Your problem is you don’t understand that a boat built in say 2003 doesn’t have the right CE mark. Why did you make up the bit about me being in the marine trade? What is your motivation for lying?
nevis768
Active member
Hello Mate, I don't see anything in the legislation about the "right CE mark?". Have you made that up? Can you not accept you and Tranona have been talking absolute cobblers about this for months, if not years. Please link to the phrase "right CE mark "
Here's the link to broker which explains this all in simple terms for you, and how the UKCA marking is not required anymore. No mention of any "right CE" marking. Lol
CE & UKCA Categories. A Brief Explanation for Boat Owners | Val Wyatt
*This article was originally published in June 2021, before being updated in February 2022, and then again in November 2022, to reflect timeframe changes made by the UK government. The latest update was in August 2023, following the announcement that the CE mark will be recognised indefinitely.
Of course, there has now been further update accepting the CE mark until 2027. No mention of any right or wrong CE marks
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billskip
Well-known member
Advantage nevis 768 ?
dunedin
Well-known member
Wasn’t that just allowing builders to certify their new products to the (current) RCD / CE standards rather than using the UKCA /. RCR standard. But they still need to get the products officially certified, just they can continue to use CE.
It didn’t imply any change to the requirement for products to be certified to the latest standards.
I don’t think Nevis understands the subtleties and context. I would suspect it might be better to take the views of British Marine, RYA and CA on this rather than one forum poster?
billskip
Well-known member
Forums are what they are, and this debate brings to light the confusion that the minefields create.
For anyone actually going to buy a boat and import to the UK, it would be best to get the requirements direct from the gov. dept concerned.
nevis768
Active member
Incorrect again, can you read this, it's not me writing it, it is somebody else who thinks you're talking rubbish. I see your becoming a bit of a keyboard warrior now too. Good on you, when you lose the argument just hurl the insults, well done mate.
CE & UKCA Categories. A Brief Explanation for Boat Owners | Val Wyatt
*This article was originally published in June 2021, before being updated in February 2022, and then again in November 2022, to reflect timeframe changes made by the UK government. The latest update was in August 2023, following the announcement that the CE mark will be recognised indefinitely.
Of course, there has now been further update accepting the CE mark until 2027.
nevis768
Active member
Why don't you read the Act yourself, it's fairly easy to understand. It's not just me saying it, and if you look at the RYA website, they say exactly the same, but are a bit behind the newer updates.
CE & UKCA Categories. A Brief Explanation for Boat Owners | Val Wyatt
*This article was originally published in June 2021, before being updated in February 2022, and then again in November 2022, to reflect timeframe changes made by the UK government. The latest update was in August 2023, following the announcement that the CE mark will be recognised indefinitely.
Of course, there has now been further update accepting the CE mark until 2027.
ylop
Well-known member
Troll!
it doesn’t say “right CE mark” I was paraphrasing it for you because you were struggling to understand. Read s2 of the regs - the definition of “the Directive” is the important bit. This defines the directive that products are certified as conforming to as being the 2013 RCD. That term is then used in s40A - and cross refers to the directive. CE marks are affixed to products of all sorts (PPE, medical devices, boats etc) each of which conforms to a different directive - it is not the CE itself that really matters, it is that in order for a CE to be placed on a product a declaration of conformity is required from the manufacturer. That declaration lists exactly which directives are being conformed to. The problem for “you” is that nowhere in the U.K. regulations does it authorise boats produced to the previous RCD. It would have been easy to put a clause in that said for boats manufactured before 2017 conformity to the old directive was Ok - but they didn’t.
If you had read and understood what you have been calling the Act this would be clear; so show us which clauses of the act say a product declared to conform the the 1994 RCD (effective from 98) can legally be imported to the U.K.
ylop
Well-known member
I’ve only skimmed the article - it seems to be discussing the challenges for businesses importing new boats. As a result it has no reason to discuss old boats certified to previous standard or circulating in the EU before 1998, so within the scope of its discussion it is probably right (I’ve not scrutinised it) but that seems to be a different question from a private individual importing old boats.
billskip
Well-known member
This is a problem confusing the points of discussion.
Example two new HR 's are sold in 2010, one is brought int the UK, bought by a UK
Custome, the other is bought by a French customer and goes to France.
Today both boats are for sale...the one in France is in better condition and a better price ....I'll go and buy that....Tranona says
If you do you will have to update it to the latest ce spec to import it, and could need engine replacement.
Ok I'm happy with that information, to a point...
If the boat is brought into the UK by the French it can operate here as is ....if the boat is brought into the UK by the new UK owner it can't operate as it is.....this I cannot believe, all the existing HR's would have to be condemned.
Which leads me to conclude that acceptance of existing ce status has been
accepted overall.
Again an actual physical import and requirements experience would be desirable.
ylop
Well-known member
You have correctly summarised the paradox! But that is what the letter of the law says. Consider for example that a boat made in the US and CE marked at the time (to the old directive), sailed there and then brought across the pond cannot be imported to either France or the U.K. even although sister ships may have arrived before the directive changed and can legitimately be here and sold on (but not moved between the U.K. and EU anymore!). Old boats don’t get condemned they remain in their existing market under grandfather rights, but each market defines its own rules on what arrivals are permitted (i believe they called it “taking back control”!). Of course each market can also decide how much effort to put into enforcing such rules. You could of course bring the HR in, pay the vat on it and get a post construction assessment to bring the paperwork up to date (potentially requiring a reengine) but the price difference isn’t usually that good to make that viable.
