Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
Are you still banging away at this drum?
Sunseeker Stand - Southampton Boat Show 2021
- Thread starter ShaneAtSea
- Start date
Bigplumbs
Well-known member
About 11 very small ones...... I say it like it is I am afraid
Bigplumbs
Well-known member
I used to love watching middle class people rant and rave at Easy Jet staff on that TV program Airport because they were late or forgot their passport......" You'd never get this treatment on British Airways"
You think there is a class system do you...... What do you think it is based on not money I hope
Bigplumbs
Well-known member
CUE99T
New member
And I'm totally behind FACTUAL statements.... but think you got me all wrong matey!! Anyway.......
Portofino
Well-known member
Hang on nothing to do with “ rich “ or some other socialist pre conceived idea .
I stepped on a new display boat at a show and the galley fell to bits .My mate manufacturers furniture for laboratories and school that’s his business. In front of the pretty sexy sales lady he had a door off one minute and his finger nails behind a work top edge and separated it , as he tut tutted and declared cheap crap build . This boat was built in Poland .
I apologised and told her as I saw it not good enough.
Another show wowed by the MBY write up got on board and I kid you not the floor a type of large wood squares creeked and moved as you put your weight from one foot to to another .
I just can not live with a moving cabin saloon floor that is squelchy.= Told them and exited quickly.This boat was built in the U.K. The builder went bust .
Another boat the vanity cabinets in the en suite was not lined you could see exposed wires at the back .Furthermore theses wires for the interior lights were not even in a conduit.This was a French boat .
I like cedar lined cabinets in the cabins and wires running neatly in conduit , I told the sales guy as sought to exit .
Why buy a less than your expectation in terms of quality?
ShaneAtSea
Active member
ShaneAtSea
Active member
I had a tour around the Princess F55 in Southampton....boat.co.uk has put out a video talking about the options that are available and are they worth it
This 2022 Princess F55 £1,800,000 has pretty much every option ticked - 5 pages of extras! - does this make the perfect boat? In this boat tour James walks through the options and why they add up.
This 2022 Princess F55 £1,800,000 has pretty much every option ticked - 5 pages of extras! - does this make the perfect boat? In this boat tour James walks through the options and why they add up.
LBRodders
Well-known member
Surely 'organic rye bread' it 'toast' ?People who like avocados on toast for breakfast
stelican
Well-known member
And don't have a problem wearing jumpers with holes in ( An observation over the years)People who like avocados on toast for breakfast
henryf
Well-known member
I spent a lot of time on the Absolute stand with a lovely lady from the factory who showed me a number of boats. They had some great design ideas but I didn’t feel the build quality was quite where I was hoping given the prices being charged. Like for like I thought the Sirenna was better built and better value. In my humble opinion.
CUE99T
New member
@henryf I spoke to Absolute online chat who was very helpful and they said they would get someone to call me.......still waiting...... lol ... seems a recurring theme eh!
I did think the videos of the 48 didnt look as good build quality as the animated video so you could well be bang on.
I did think the videos of the 48 didnt look as good build quality as the animated video so you could well be bang on.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-known member
1.850.000 million £ or 2 million euros for a Princess F55 is super expensive. Same size Princess 3 years ago was half that price. What has changed in Princess to charge that much.
May be they hope to fix the profit and loss dilemma.
May be they hope to fix the profit and loss dilemma.
ShaneAtSea
Active member
Sunseeker & Princess are the John Lewis of boats. You pay more but you get what you pay for. And theyre British which gives a sense of security to people.
The killer is the f-ing VAT.........£400,000 on a Sunseeker Manhattan 55
Now, if i buy it in Florida they have a sales tax of 6% and South Carolina is a maximum of only $300
However, it will cost around £50,000 to have it shipped from Southampton to Fort Lauderdale
So thats why ive decided to keep my boat in Florida. All year round weather and thousands of miles of Intracoastal waterways plus Nassau if im feeling really adventurous
The only downside is that we can only stay 2 x 90 days in 12 months without a green card but its the same in the EU now anyway
PowerYachtBlog
Well-known member
So John Lewis that without Italian sub-contractors who are finding it impossible to come with there vans to UK (Brexit-Covid) they are finding it difficult to build 100 feet plus.
So John Lewis that to build a 50 meter in steel they had to make it in Holland. (Sunseeker 50 m built by Icon)
So John Lewis that design is Italian. Pininfarina for Princess, Frabetti for Sunseeker. Mancini for Fairline.
So John Lewis that a British boat by the three main-stream builders has nothing English about it.
I could understand the price inflation when a boat has certain details certain engineering, innovations but in these Princess I see nothing of that.
So for me it is just an inflated price with clever marketing and nice adverts.
You cannot pay a near to custom boat price for a boat of that standard.
Sunseeker is still priced in line, Princess is not especially in the sub 20 meter models.
When a Ferretti used to cost 20-30% in the nineties and up until 2010 you could understand why.
Technological gizmos of passarelle which turned and retracted, fuel decanter, dual stop chocks, opening saloon patio window which goes up (oh they invented it in 1985), and so on so forth.
The other three builders are inline - Sunseeker - Azimut - Ferretti - but Princess keeps lifting its prices to an understood level.
When you board a Riva and see the detailing you can understand its price.
If you board a Viking or a Hatteras SF the engineering detail is insane. And you can understand the price too.
Here I cannot whatever John Lewis tells you.
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Portofino
Well-known member
Buy an American boat if Florida’s your destination.Sunseeker & Princess are the John Lewis of boats. You pay more but you get what you pay for. And theyre British which gives a sense of security to people.
The killer is the f-ing VAT.........£400,000 on a Sunseeker Manhattan 55
Now, if i buy it in Florida they have a sales tax of 6% and South Carolina is a maximum of only $300
However, it will cost around £50,000 to have it shipped from Southampton to Fort Lauderdale
So thats why ive decided to keep my boat in Florida. All year round weather and thousands of miles of Intracoastal waterways plus Nassau if im feeling really adventurous
The only downside is that we can only stay 2 x 90 days in 12 months without a green card but its the same in the EU now anyway
Buy an Italian ( Ferretti group ) VAT free and consider the Med near a none EU state for a base .
I wouldn’t hang your hat on the U.K. “ John Lewis “ factor AND pay more , taxes + del to export a U.K. builders boat to the States or Med .
FG group have been pushing real hard on Noise Vibrations and Harshness (NVH ) + quality of fit n finish .
They employ a special tech centre across the group some 200 employees and the fruits of there labour filter throughout the brands .
It a kinda Louis Vuitton factor .
Let me explain this LV factor from a Chinese POV in terms of market position and perception.
Takes a bit of getting your head round and I expect flack from the usual suspects on here
A 1/3 rd of the world’s economy population recognises the quality of genuine LV stuff and a few of them covert that LV effect .
A tiny % want the real thing .But a tiny % of a 1/3 rd of the world’s population number is a big number too !
Crucially although they on one hand make cheap reproductions to sell to the RoW, to generate cash , they buy the real bag + headscarfs for themselves.
Its ironic they manufacture crap to generate cash but for themselves , but the” % “only want the best .
A lot of Ferretti brands end up in China and the owner(s) are majoring on quality the LV effect for the top echelon of Chinese.
They (Chinese ) do make cheaper boats of course for the masses at a price , but for the “% “ the FG brand is the one .
That’s the driver of the quality up from he FG owners perspective .
Was explained to me at a Monaco preview a year ago back by a Chinese guy while I tried to critique the build of a Riva / Itama / Pershing .I failed btw .
I noticed a huge step up in terms of fit n finish , NVH as we went out on test drives .
Another tech feature they ALL are painted even the Ferretti beige theses days .This is because of the well documented hazards with Vac infusion and quality control .Clear resin apparently you can see defects that would otherwise be hidden and get through if the gel coat was coloured .This is an example of the across the range QC . No liners used either .
Engines mounted on fluid vibration damper mounts to reduce NVH …..across the range .Think electric rheogenic type like in high end cars ??
^^^ no way you can feel that benefit at a standing boat show , bit late to feel the engines of a “ John Lewis “ spec U.K. boat throbbing away in the marina after handing over £X M cheque isn’t it ?
“ John Lewis “ Pah ! far too low to aim for .The competition has gone up to the LV factor .
But you need to know what you are looking for and feeling when it’s running .
MapisM
Well-known member
Since PYB and PF already did a good enough job at bashing what you called the John Lewis of boats, I feel the duty to challenge this other choice of yours.
I've been in FL more times than I can remember, spending months there with home exchanges, in several occasions.
Anywhere between Key West and Jacksonville on one side, and from Naples to Clearwater on the other.
And I enjoyed my time around there - I wouldn't have returned if I didn't.
BUT... Comparing FL to the Med from a boating viewpoint...? Is that a practical joke, or what?
Ok, I guess that Miami area is a great choice if cocaine is your thing.
But other than that, give me the worst of the Med boating areas any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
henryf
Well-known member
Not sure about the misquote about Absolute not responding to online chat. Absolute were superb at Cannes. I left having been shown around every inch I could possibly hope for.
Ferretti on the other hand……
Despite a stand invite the new 500 which is smaller than the Princess 50 wasn’t at the show and neither was the outdated 550. So my choice is between Sunseeker and Princess.
Nothing about Princess is British? What planet are you on? The factory is in Plymouth where foreigners won’t be able to understand a word the locals say. Yes, some components come from overseas - which Italian engine manufacturer are the Italian builders fitting at the moment…..
There may be input from outside sources - great for improving pedigree as any livestock breeder will tell you. See what happens when Mum & Dad are siblings or cousins….. But the design process is British, practical, methodical, engineered, conservative, refined, hand crafted.
As for pricing, I was at Cannes specifically to investigate non British builders. Let’s see where we end up putting our money. Oh yes, unlike most of the keyboard warriors we’re getting the cheque book out.
Henry
Ferretti on the other hand……
Despite a stand invite the new 500 which is smaller than the Princess 50 wasn’t at the show and neither was the outdated 550. So my choice is between Sunseeker and Princess.
Nothing about Princess is British? What planet are you on? The factory is in Plymouth where foreigners won’t be able to understand a word the locals say. Yes, some components come from overseas - which Italian engine manufacturer are the Italian builders fitting at the moment…..
There may be input from outside sources - great for improving pedigree as any livestock breeder will tell you. See what happens when Mum & Dad are siblings or cousins….. But the design process is British, practical, methodical, engineered, conservative, refined, hand crafted.
As for pricing, I was at Cannes specifically to investigate non British builders. Let’s see where we end up putting our money. Oh yes, unlike most of the keyboard warriors we’re getting the cheque book out.
Henry
henryf
Well-known member
How very interesting that you based your essay on Louis Vuitton Portofino.
One of the brands being discussed is actually part of the LVMH (Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy) group and it isn’t Ferretti.
Welcome to the luxury brand that is Princess.
I could be cruel and use your analogy to say that Sunseeker are Chinese owned but the reality is they are also thoroughly British with a great heritage and well put together.
Henry
One of the brands being discussed is actually part of the LVMH (Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy) group and it isn’t Ferretti.
Welcome to the luxury brand that is Princess.
I could be cruel and use your analogy to say that Sunseeker are Chinese owned but the reality is they are also thoroughly British with a great heritage and well put together.
Henry
MapisM
Well-known member
You mean 20-30% more of other mainstream builders like Prin/Sskr/Azi, I suppose?
Because back in those years, there were other IT builders whose prices were actually on par (if not a tad higher, as it was for my boat) with the comparable Ferretti models.
But yes, for all of them you could understand why.
To a great extent, you still can also when you compare them with much more modern boats - even from the same builders.
I mean, when you see a current Ferretti 550, of course at first glance she's much more impressive than a 25yo 165.
But if we could travel in time to 2045 and check how a 550 will look by then, and then see again how that 165 looks now, which boat do you think you'll rather chose?
