Pioneer 9

[yoda]

I have just bought a Pioneer 9 and would welcome any advice from the forum regarding these boats. It's a project and there is quite a lot of work to do in order to get her ship shape and seaworthy. She needs a total interior refit, and she needs new standing rigging and running rigging. The hull also needs painting etc.

I am also looking for Sails and a Tiller. Would anybody know the measurements for the sails or where I can find these measurements? If anybody has used sails, then I would be willing to buy them for the right price.

I also need a tiller and I wondered if somebody could advise me on this. I think it will need the steel end of the tiller too. Please see first attachment.

Secondly could anybody advise me if the bunks can be removed in the fore cabin. See second attachment.

Regarding knocking down bulkheads to the fore cabin, will this affect the structure? What is the best way to go about this? I have an idea but could do with some advice.

I'm also considering changing the main hatch at the cockpit to make it an opening hatch. Will this impact the structure?

Please see other attachments. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Captain Blade, I happen to know where your Pioneer is and could possibly meet you to pass on my experience. I would say from the Photos that the mast step needs reinforcement as I can see the beam with the official number carved in is starting to sag. I dealt with this on my boat and caught now it's not a big job and will stop it becoming a real issue later on. The Fwd bunk can be dropped or removed, we did that. Don't remove the bulkhead! Fitting doors instead of boards at the main hatch should be ok.

Yoda

 

[Ribtecer]

VAN DE STADT PIONEER 9 | eBay

Blimey

 

[Captain Blade]

Captain Blade here! Yes, Blimey! I've put Zeemuze up for sale, she is listed on Ebay and Gumtree. I went down to see her on Monday and came back late yesterday evening. Having seen her, I was a bit disappointed, not by the condition of her, but by her size. She is much smaller and tighter internally than I thought she would be. I did not feel overwhelmed by the work involved in getting her ship shape and ready for sailing again - not at all! I think it is quite a simple interior refit which should not need to cost much at all. It depends on what people are looking for, but I believe I could have the interior sorted within a week or two and I should imagine others could too.

I believe the biggest cost are the new sails and a new engine.

She is in the most beautiful of locations, 'Heaven on Earth', side of the Lynher River and even though it chucked it down the whole time I was down there, I was overwhelmed by the beautiful scenery. If I sell her, I sell her, but if I don't then I'll probably be back down after Xmas to do the work necessary.

Yoda regarding your offer, I'll see what happens first.

 

[Captain Blade]

Hi

I'm having offers and advice on here, I'm almost tempted to hold off selling, but I'll see what offers I get first. Thanks to everybody who has offered help and advice. One more thing, I wondered if increasing the height of the roof on the main cabin would affect the structure and the sailing of the boat? I was thinking I could perhaps add a foot or a foot and a half to the height.

 

[Tranona]

Hi

I'm having offers and advice on here, I'm almost tempted to hold off selling, but I'll see what offers I get first. Thanks to everybody who has offered help and advice. One more thing, I wondered if increasing the height of the roof on the main cabin would affect the structure and the sailing of the boat? I was thinking I could perhaps add a foot or a foot and a half to the height.

Sorry to say that boat is totally worthless and will never sail again. Please do not attempt any of the changes you have suggested. You clearly have no idea of what is involved. It obviously needs sails and an engine - but you could buy a fully functioning boat for less than they would cost to buy.

Hopefully your ad will find another dreamer and if you do maybe worth paying him the £100 to take it off your hands.

Sorry to be harsh, but the reason it is in that state is probably because successive owners have been though the same process as you and quickly discovered it is past being worth doing anything with. Yards are littered with boats like this because renovating them far exceeds the cost of a complete boat, never mind the enormous number of man hours involved.

 

[Captain Blade]

Sorry to say that boat is totally worthless and will never sail again. Please do not attempt any of the changes you have suggested. You clearly have no idea of what is involved. It obviously needs sails and an engine - but you could buy a fully functioning boat for less than they would cost to buy.

Hopefully your ad will find another dreamer and if you do maybe worth paying him the £100 to take it off your hands.

Sorry to be harsh, but the reason it is in that state is probably because successive owners have been though the same process as you and quickly discovered it is past being worth doing anything with. Yards are littered with boats like this because renovating them far exceeds the cost of a complete boat, never mind the enormous number of man hours involved.

I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life. There is nothing wrong with the boat that a bit of love and attention can't put right. I could have her up and running in two or three months if the weather was right and I'm a novice! I estimate to complete the internal works will cost less than a grand, buying the sails will cost another £2500 and a new engine can be picked up at £500 if you look around. I've done my research; I know what it will cost and to say it is a write of is a load of rubbish!

The only reason I've decided to sell it is because it is smaller than I hoped it would be, I want something with a bit more space inside, but that is the only reason!

 

[Tranona]

I have never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life. There is nothing wrong with the boat that a bit of love and attention can't put right. I could have her up and running in two or three months if the weather was right and I'm a novice! I estimate to complete the internal works will cost less than a grand, buying the sails will cost another £2500 and a new engine can be picked up at £500 if you look around. I've done my research; I know what it will cost and to say it is a write of is a load of rubbish!

The only reason I've decided to sell it is because it is smaller than I hoped it would be, I want something with a bit more space inside, but that is the only reason!

Well, I think the "novice" has a lot to learn. Your opening sentence is exactly my thoughts when I first saw the boat and your plans. There is everything wrong with the boat which is why it is sitting abandoned in a remote cheap yard. I am afraid £500 will not get you even a dead inboard engine. I would guess it was the dead engine that was the final straw in the slide of the boat towards the scrap heap.

A word of advice - if you want to go sailing on a budget forget buying a boat like that. Spend less money on a boat that actually works and improve it as you go along. Plenty of good spacious functioning boats around for far less money than your estimate of what you think you might spend on a boat like that.

 

[Captain Blade]

Well, I think the "novice" has a lot to learn. Your opening sentence is exactly my thoughts when I first saw the boat and your plans. There is everything wrong with the boat which is why it is sitting abandoned in a remote cheap yard. I am afraid £500 will not get you even a dead inboard engine. I would guess it was the dead engine that was the final straw in the slide of the boat towards the scrap heap.

A word of advice - if you want to go sailing on a budget forget buying a boat like that. Spend less money on a boat that actually works and improve it as you go along. Plenty of good spacious functioning boats around for far less money than your estimate of what you think you might spend on a boat like that.

Tranona, I'm sorry if I cause you offence with this comment but you too have offended me with your comments. You've got a big mouth and a small brain too with very little vision! Watch this space! I'll show you what can be achieved, and you don't have a clue what my budget is!

ZEEMUZE - VAN DE STADT PIONIER SAILBOAT

 

[MisterBaxter]

I'm a naturally conciliatory person and also a finance manager by profession, and I'd say that you're both right. Captain Blade is quite right to say that a yacht like this could be brought back to life without spending vast amounts of money. Secondhand engines and headsails are widely available, expensive digital instruments aren't necessary, interiors can be left basic but functional, you can do without most fitted plumbing altogether. A boat this size can be sailed without a windlass, a sea toilet, a chart plotter, roller reefing or a host of other expensive items, if the owner chooses.
However, it's also true to say that the resale value of a boat that has been refurbished in that way won't cover even the cash invested, let alone the labour; if it would cost £5k to bring a yacht to the point where you could sell it for £5k (figures for illustrative purposes only...) then it's not unfair to say that the yacht is currently worth very little.
It's also not unfair to point out the obvious fact that a lot of yachts don't make it back from this stage of deterioration.

 

[ridgy]

Tranona speaks the truth I'm afraid but we look forward to seeing the end result and being proved wrong for doubting you.
Even if the boat was in your back garden it would be a mighty project. Living at a distance...well you've already identified the problem.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Tranona speaks the truth I'm afraid but we look forward to seeing the end result and being proved wrong for doubting you.
Even if the boat was in your back garden it would be a mighty project. Living at a distance...well you've already identified the problem.

It's also worth noting that @Tranona a) has refurbished boats and b) worked in the leisure marine industry. His comments also reflect the opinion of almost everyone on these fora who has restored a boat, and there are probably centuries of experience involved!

 

[Tranona]

Tranona, I'm sorry if I cause you offence with this comment but you too have offended me with your comments. You've got a big mouth and a small brain too with very little vision! Watch this space! I'll show you what can be achieved, and you don't have a clue what my budget is!

ZEEMUZE - VAN DE STADT PIONIER SAILBOAT

You have not offended me at all, I am just trying to be helpful and hopefully save you a lot of money and angst - speaking from over 40 years of building and owning boats. Indeed I am currently undertaking a major refit on a boat of similar age to yours. Whatever your budget is you will spend double and take twice as long to achieve anything worthwhile.

Please do not use insults like this. You have no idea who I am. I do know what is possible, and if you read the many threads on this forum about refurbishing old boats you will find my view is almost universally shared. Yes it is possible to go sailing on a tight budget - many posters here do -BUT they start with a boat that actually works and learn how to keep it going and upgrade it as they go along.

So, yes please post what you do with the boat.

 

[Captain Blade]

You have not offended me at all, I am just trying to be helpful and hopefully save you a lot of money and angst - speaking from over 40 years of building and owning boats. Indeed I am currently undertaking a major refit on a boat of similar age to yours. Whatever your budget is you will spend double and take twice as long to achieve anything worthwhile.

Please do not use insults like this. You have no idea who I am. I do know what is possible, and if you read the many threads on this forum about refurbishing old boats you will find my view is almost universally shared. Yes it is possible to go sailing on a tight budget - many posters here do -BUT they start with a boat that actually works and learn how to keep it going and upgrade it as they go along.

So, yes please post what you do with the boat.

Firstly, I want to apologize sincerely for what I said as it was a bit disrespectful considering I don't know you. Having said that you don't know me. I may be a novice and I might not have any sailing experience, I might not even like it. It's not the same as being on a Type 42 Destroyer with all the comforts which I experienced in the RN. Having said that you guys on here know more about sailing and have more knowledge about sailing than I ever learned whilst serving and I served as a seaman. I might be able to tie a few knots and know the difference between the bow and the stern, but that's all I know!

I was offended by your comments, but all you did was make me more determined. The reason I decided not to sail the boat was because I thought about it and I realized that there is the potential for creating space and adding a shower too! I can't go to sea without having a shower onboard. Whilst touring the boat I did not like the guardrails, they are too low, so I will be making them higher between 4 and 5 feet. I've done a lot of research and I believe that I can get this up and running on a budget including new sails and I already have an electric engine lined up from the previous owners. I found budget tarpaulin to cover the boat and so should be able to get started on the hull early in the new year. I'm thinking about making a start on the interior before Xmas.

Anyway, and help or tips are always welcome and Yoda it would be nice to meet up next time I come down. Did anybody have chance to see the video? ZEEMUZE - VAN DE STADT PIONIER SAILBOAT

 

[ridgy]

Whilst touring the boat I did not like the guardrails, they are too low, so I will be making them higher between 4 and 5 feet.

Ok it's not April 1st but it might as well be. I claim my prize for declaring a wind up.

 

[Captain Blade]

Ok it's not April 1st but it might as well be. I claim my prize for declaring a wind up.

I dont' want to fall overboard! I'm not a very good swimmer! ☺ ....and I'm as bald as the smiley!

 

[Frogmogman]

This one?

And there was me thinking it was Jacky Setton’s Pioneer….

https://www.schmidtyachting.com/de/news/show/74/major-price-reduction-amaalta

 

[Tranona]

Firstly, I want to apologize sincerely for what I said as it was a bit disrespectful considering I don't know you. Having said that you don't know me. I may be a novice and I might not have any sailing experience, I might not even like it. It's not the same as being on a Type 42 Destroyer with all the comforts which I experienced in the RN. Having said that you guys on here know more about sailing and have more knowledge about sailing than I ever learned whilst serving and I served as a seaman. I might be able to tie a few knots and know the difference between the bow and the stern, but that's all I know!

I was offended by your comments, but all you did was make me more determined. The reason I decided not to sail the boat was because I thought about it and I realized that there is the potential for creating space and adding a shower too! I can't go to sea without having a shower onboard. Whilst touring the boat I did not like the guardrails, they are too low, so I will be making them higher between 4 and 5 feet. I've done a lot of research and I believe that I can get this up and running on a budget including new sails and I already have an electric engine lined up from the previous owners. I found budget tarpaulin to cover the boat and so should be able to get started on the hull early in the new year. I'm thinking about making a start on the interior before Xmas.

Anyway, and help or tips are always welcome and Yoda it would be nice to meet up next time I come down. Did anybody have chance to see the video? ZEEMUZE - VAN DE STADT PIONIER SAILBOAT

Apology accepted.

Thank you for sharing your video. It confirms my view that your boat is beyond redemption. It was once a lovely boat in a spartan sort of 1960's way, but the act of stripping it out and revealing all the underlying problems, plus the lack of the fundamental features of an offshore sailing boat 9sails, reliable engine, fitted interior with berths, galley with cooking facilities, water, toilet - the list goes on) has made it worthless.

TBH talking about a shower just illustrates how far your view if what is involved is from reality, as is your talk of fitting an electric motor - which sounds easy sitting in the bar but is difficult, mostly impractical and expensive in reality.

 

[ridgy]

Dude you're just too funny. Why limit yourself to a shower, I reckon you could get a roll top bath in that forepeak.

 

[Ribtecer]

Oh dear, is there any need for that?

We look forward to seeing the works that you do to your boat.

Tranona is a long time well respected poster on this forum, i would never say anyone is absolutely right about anything, but his advice is always worth listening to.

Just saying, don't now shout at me please.

 

[Captain Blade]

Dude you're just too funny. Why limit yourself to a shower, I reckon you could get a roll top bath in that forepeak.

I'm considering it! I'm going to lift the ceiling/deck of the main cabin by one foot and I'm going to extend it by one or two feet into the cockpit. I'm going to put a a nice bed under the cockpit with a hatch looking into the cockpit and for extra light, and that is just for starters once I've ripped everything out, sanded down and cleaned it and painted all the interior. When it's finished it will look something like this. See photos