New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[affinite]

The fact that little or no port fees were charged made Greece attractive to us and was one reason we took our boat out there in the first place however for the past few years I've wondered why Greece didn't simply raise the port dues for visiting yachts.
All those pretty little harbours obviously require maintenance and, putting aside the whole EU subsidy argument, I would be happy to pay a few more Euros at each port towards their upkeep.
A Pay as you Go system seems fairer to me than an annual cruising tax which will disproportionately penalise those of us who are not yet retired and can only manage a few weeks a year on our boat.

We love Greece and, notwithstanding my comments above, would swallow hard and pay €400 or €500 as reasonable contribution to Greeces ailing economy; however for us it could be €1400 pa (13.1m) so I think I might be dusting off the Blue card and heading East again next year.

Having said all of that my marina (Leros) still dont acknowledge that the law HAS been passed ?

"Good afternoon from Leros Marina.

We kindly inform you that for the time being it is still a rumor, and nothing has yet been voted, so we cannot give you any further informations. The only thing that we can reassure you about, is that our Marina, as a member of the Greek Marinas' Association, is doing its best to prevent such a progress.

Remaining at your disposal"

So I'll wait and watch for now

Steve S/Y Canopus

 

[Nostrodamus]

I find it ridiculous that a law has apparently been passed affecting the whole of their boating world and economy yet the marinas still don't know about it.
I imagine that those boat owners who do not go on forums are likely to go to there boats next year and get one huge shock.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Does anybody else feel that it is worth the effort "for the friends of Greece" to organise an e- petition to the Greek President for the government to be reasonable in its tax treatment of boat owners who are not wealthy and have the option to move on.
If they squeeze till the pips squeak the beneficiaries will be Turkey and Italy.

 

[Carmel2]

So this means it will be cheaper to sail in Turkey..........

 

[Nostrodamus]

Well we spend all year in the Balearic's, Sardinia and Sicily and managed to anchor everywhere for nothing. Guess there may be a few people doing the same next year but.. if people accept this tax and carry on going to Greece the chances are other countries will adopt their own sailing taxes.

 

[Tony Cross]

I spent some time yesterday afternoon & evening talking to the chandlers outside the marina here and to one of the car rental companies that gets a lot of business from the marina. They were both pretty much of the opinion that resistance is futile. They both felt that the Greek government doesn't want this tax and they know that it will adversely impact some areas of their economy, but the troika are demanding more and more taxes to offset the bailout funds and this is just another one - and the first that affects non-Greeks.

To be fair they did also agree that it would make much more sense for the government to collect all the taxes they are owed and if the government consisted of people appointed on merit rather than compliant "friends" who will do what they're told.

It's also hard to get the Greeks wound up about a tax that doesn't affect them (unless they have a boat of course) because they are already sinking under a raft of new taxes that do affect them. Although nobody has said so the phrase "welcome to the club" hangs in the air.....

 

[1bobt]

Well i went to the Port police in Aegina this morning to get a lifting/hauling paper for the yard. This would have been proof that the boat was out of the water
Guess what no papers in the police station ,so i offer the 8.88 euro fee to the policeman saying I would collect the paper in the spring. Sorry Mister we have no receipt book so I cannot take your money.

 

[Chris_Robb]

PLEIAS

Thanks for your input which is much appreciated here by most of us.

 

[BrianH]

regarding the boat tax matter, this sort of levy has proved to be ineffectual, very costly to implement, and damaging to the economy in my country: so much that it has been cancelled after only one year.

Hi jaba ... this news is interesting and shows a complete back-pedalling by the Italian government. So, after the first proposal of a similar tax now being implemented in Greece - a blanket tax on all craft - then successive amendments for sail, age and non-residence following all the lobbying, now a total climb-down and repeal because of the fiscal collection ramifications. And that is in a country with very sophisticated tax collection mechanisms. I can't imagine the chaos and difficulties that are going to accompany the attempts to implement something similar in Greece. Perhaps by including all vessels they hope to cut the complexity.

 

[Carmel2]

Does this tax affect commercial traffic?

 

[jordanbasset]

I spent some time yesterday afternoon & evening talking to the chandlers outside the marina here and to one of the car rental companies that gets a lot of business from the marina. They were both pretty much of the opinion that resistance is futile. They both felt that the Greek government doesn't want this tax and they know that it will adversely impact some areas of their economy, but the troika are demanding more and more taxes to offset the bailout funds and this is just another one - and the first that affects non-Greeks.

.

I think there is a lot of truth in that -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25032785
Eurozone finance ministers are losing patience with Greece, said the head of the Eurogroup, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, as the country submitted its 2014 budget.
In return for the rescue package, Greece had to restructure its finances, cut public sector pensions and pay, and impose new taxes.
The necessary measures Greece needs to take to meet its bailout requirements in 2014 have been debated in Athens by the so-called troika, made up of the International Monetary Fund, European Central Bank and European Commission.'

The Greek Government is under a lot of pressure to do something, the question is whether what they have decided to do is the right thing

 

[rivonia]

Well i went to the Port police in Aegina this morning to get a lifting/hauling paper for the yard. This would have been proof that the boat was out of the water
Guess what no papers in the police station ,so i offer the 8.88 euro fee to the policeman saying I would collect the paper in the spring. Sorry Mister we have no receipt book so I cannot take your money.

Interesting as we went to the Port Police here in CRETE and paid the fee and got a receipt. tax also paid.

Peter

 

[jaba]

Hi jaba ... this news is interesting and shows a complete back-pedalling by the Italian government. So, after the first proposal of a similar tax now being implemented in Greece - a blanket tax on all craft - then successive amendments for sail, age and non-residence following all the lobbying, now a total climb-down and repeal because of the fiscal collection ramifications. And that is in a country with very sophisticated tax collection mechanisms. I can't imagine the chaos and difficulties that are going to accompany the attempts to implement something similar in Greece. Perhaps by including all vessels they hope to cut the complexity.

Yes Barnac1e! back-pedalling indeed. But, being Italy a Mediterranean country (;-)) to get the tax money back you have to
1 - Read 50 (!) pages of instructions on the Ministry of Economics site
2 - Download and install 2 softwares
3 - Register in the Ministry site (not everybody is allowed, for a private individual like me it's fraught with problems))
4 - Send your request
4 - Wait and see
I confess I won't bother.
Even when the tax had been cancelled the Guardia di Finanza asked for the receipt of payment and, in absence of it, issued a fine! Of course you would oppose in front of a judge, but...

That said for Italy, I can't imagine the mess in Greece.
Best
j

 

[Steve C Cronin]

I spent some time yesterday afternoon & evening talking to the chandlers outside the marina here and to one of the car rental companies that gets a lot of business from the marina. They were both pretty much of the opinion that resistance is futile. They both felt that the Greek government doesn't want this tax and they know that it will adversely impact some areas of their economy, but the troika are demanding more and more taxes to offset the bailout funds and this is just another one - and the first that affects non-Greeks.

To be fair they did also agree that it would make much more sense for the government to collect all the taxes they are owed and if the government consisted of people appointed on merit rather than compliant "friends" who will do what they're told.

It's also hard to get the Greeks wound up about a tax that doesn't affect them (unless they have a boat of course) because they are already sinking under a raft of new taxes that do affect them. Although nobody has said so the phrase "welcome to the club" hangs in the air.....

Exactly how my Greek and ex-pat Brit friends see the situation but when i put it forward here all I seem to get is abuse - up till recently, that is. Now it seems everyone has realised the situation at last.

 

[Marsupial]

The Greek Government is under a lot of pressure to do something, the question is whether what they have decided to do is the right thing

I think there is a lot of truth in the idea that the Greeks will pick on taxes that do the most damage to their economy so they can then blame the troika for the mess and not the elected government/coalition; remember the histrionics at the time of the last bailout and elections. There was a rush for the door when the troika wanted a signature on the bailout conditions. I think its likely that as the troika try and corner them the more they will retaliate like this. As others have said the Greek rich don't and wont pay tax and most of them have the means and connections to evade and avoid it. we will all have to wait and see what happens when/if they implement it.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

I think there is a lot of truth in the idea that the Greeks will pick on taxes that do the most damage to their economy so they can then blame the troika for the mess and not the elected government/coalition; remember the histrionics at the time of the last bailout and elections. There was a rush for the door when the troika wanted a signature on the bailout conditions. I think its likely that as the troika try and corner them the more they will retaliate like this. As others have said the Greek rich don't and wont pay tax and most of them have the means and connections to evade and avoid it. we will all have to wait and see what happens when/if they implement it.

A poster with some sense and an appreciation of the true picture. Hope you don't get slagged by the "Greece is so wonderful and can do no wrong" Brigade

 

[Bertramdriver]

As a matter of interest have any of the government organisations ever published an economic value for the leisure boating industry to the Greek economy. I'm sure the troika agents must have got their figures from somewhere. I would just like to see where they're starting from so in five years time we can look at the price of slash and burn economics.

 

[Marsupial]

A poster with some sense and an appreciation of the true picture. Hope you don't get slagged by the "Greece is so wonderful and can do no wrong" Brigade

Well Steve I did spend two years in Messolonghi......I think we understand the psyche

 

[sailaboutvic]

The fact that little or no port fees were charged made Greece attractive to us and was one reason we took our boat out there in the first place however for the past few years I've wondered why Greece didn't simply raise the port dues for visiting yachts.
All those pretty little harbours obviously require maintenance and, putting aside the whole EU subsidy argument, I would be happy to pay a few more Euros at each port towards their upkeep.
A Pay as you Go system seems fairer to me than an annual cruising tax which will disproportionately penalise those of us who are not yet retired and can only manage a few weeks a year on our boat.

We love Greece and, notwithstanding my comments above, would swallow hard and pay €400 or €500 as reasonable contribution to Greeces ailing economy; however for us it could be €1400 pa (13.1m) so I think I might be dusting off the Blue card and heading East again next year.

Having said all of that my marina (Leros) still dont acknowledge that the law HAS been passed ?

"Good afternoon from Leros Marina.

We kindly inform you that for the time being it is still a rumor, and nothing has yet been voted, so we cannot give you any further informations. The only thing that we can reassure you about, is that our Marina, as a member of the Greek Marinas' Association, is doing its best to prevent such a progress.

Remaining at your disposal"

So I'll wait and watch for now

Steve S/Y Canopus

Steve I would suggest that leros is burning their head in the sand or just tell you fibs , yachts from quite a few country's in this marina have heard of the law from their own country so I find it hard to believe that a Greece marina don't know about , you have to remember their have everything to lose and nothing to gain if people start leaving Greece . One have to wonder what would the Greek government do if by mid season 50% of the yacht left Greece or charter company start pulling out .

 

[Chris_Robb]

Steve I would suggest that leros is burning their head in the sand or just tell you fibs , yachts from quite a few country's in this marina have heard of the law from their own country so I find it hard to believe that a Greece marina don't know about , you have to remember their have everything to lose and nothing to gain if people start leaving Greece . One have to wonder what would the Greek government do if by mid season 50% of the yacht left Greece or charter company start pulling out .

I have also written to Leros - their first reply was - "nothing will happen". My second email telling that I would not place a contract until I knew, got this reply:

Good afternoon from Leros Marina.
We want to thank you for all the informations you gave us regarding the issue of the proposed law, and we kindly inform you the following:
- It is still a proposed law form, not a voted one as you noted in your last email.
- Our Marina is a member of the Greek Marina's Association, which has already stated its position loud and clear in the previous 2 efforts of the government to pass the law, as it is doing in this case again as we speak.

Note that they say it is still not law - at odds with PLEIAS - who says that it just needs gazzetting. I suspect PLEIAS is correct.

So they are well aware of this law and the problems it will bring. However they are also trying to tie up next years contracts - at a time like this I don't envy them. They must have had hundreds of emails all asking the same thing.